Hi all, I have attached a diagram of what I think could yield a working spinnaker setup on my Nacra 5.2.

I will need to be able to operate it single handedly most of the time. I have assembled this information from sources all over the 'net and from my recollection of an actual working F-18 setup.

Would you please look at the diagram and let me know if you think I missed something?
I'm trying to integrate a single line halyard / tack setup with a mid-pole snuffer. Does this look right or should I change something around. The diagram is not to scale and omits obvious details like shrouds, pole support bridle and such.

(there's no haste, my budget's run out for this year, so I'm planning next years' goodies ;-)

Thanks, Dennis

Denis, that looks about right. It will make more sense when you actually rig it up. Here's one thing you could change to save you some string. The way you have the tack line rigged up it's 2-1 back to the halyard. But on a small spinnaker of a Nacra 5.2 (as opposed to say an Inter 20) you really don't need 2-1 for the tack line. All you have to do is tie a block to the end of the tack line and run the halyard through that, making sure your tack line will pull the spin tack to the end of the pole before the block hits the front beam.

I sail a F16 Blade single handed most of the time and I have found the single biggest problem is friction in the spinnaker up and down system. Anything you can do to eliminate excess line and friction in the haylyard/tack line system will help you set and snuff it much faster with less chance of a snag when it's halfway up or down.

I like my spin. halyard clete up on the mast so I can pull the spin up hand over hand, using my weight to help pull, rather than pulling straight back from the beam using arm strength alone. But to do that you can't run the -single line- setup you have pictured. You have to run a separate tack line. Personally I like the two line system better as there is much less friction in the halyard so I can raise and lower the spin faster with less pulls.

If i am seeing this correctly, you have a triple setup... tack, halyard and retrieval all on the same line.... WOW... i haven't seen anyone pull that off...

I use a single line for both halyard and retrieval line and have learned it needs to be exact in size to avoid troubles.

my tack line is separate altogether and i have no problems with that at all... that is the simplest part of the setup...

Thanks Timbo!
I suppose it will make more sense afterwards, but I'm trying to understand the ideal situation beforehand, so I don't have to go changing it afterwards. Besides, I like drawing diagrams using Inkscape :-)

If I eliminate the 2:1 tack line, I increase resistance on the halyard at the same time...
I had not thought about having the halyard higher up on the mast to take advantage of "weight assisted" hoisting! Good point there...
I gather you pull out the tack line first when you hoist and last when you douse the spin? (do you have the setup with a separate tack-release line and tack-line or just the tack-line coming in to a cleat on the beam (much like the furler line on a roller furling jib)?

Regards,
Dennis

<quote>If i am seeing this correctly, you have a triple setup... tack, halyard and retrieval all on the same line....</quote>

Andrew, that is correct. I just thought it seemed logical that way, at least in theory!
Maybe there's a reason nobody has it set up this way though. Like too much resistance for example. If so, I'd like to find out before I start drilling my main beam to Swiss cheese... (but like I said, I'm in no haste).

Dennis,
If you don't have a self tacking jib, that should work just fine. We ran a similar set-up on the first I-20 Worrell boat we had. They came from the factory that way,except the tack set-up was in the spin pole, with a 2:1 and exit blocks on each end.Really clean.The only pisser is if you let one of the lines go while rigging or de-rigging it's a real pain to re-wreave it.
Todd

Denis, what you describe is what I have, a tack line to a clete on the beam, which gets pulled first when hoisting, and last when snuffing. The good part is, when you douse, you just dump the halyard and pull the retrieve line as fast as you can, you don't have to worry about the tack going under the bow, because it is still fixed at the end of the pole, until you unclete that one and finish the snuff.

Yes, it takes a half second longer to reach and unclete the tack line and then finish the snuff, (one more good pull) but I never have to worry about the halyard/tack line getting all twisted up and ruining the snuff. I had a set up like you have drawn on my Nacra 5.5 a long time ago and the 2-1 tack line was always getting twisted, which added a lot of friction to the hoist.

Actually that's the way many of the Tigers and Nacras came from the factory. Works well. But in the name of speed, the tack line is usually separate now.

the hobie tigers came stock with that setup originally (I'm not sure if they still do or not). It definitely works. AHPC provides the capricorn with the 1:2 on the halyard going up the mast instead of on the tack line. It cuts hoist distance in half but it increases the force you need to hoist. Both systems are a little more complicated to rig - I still prefer the separate tack line so you can pull the tack out early just before getting to the top of the course and then go full bore on the halyard at the turn. Additionally, if distance racing and sailing odd wind angles, it can be beneficial to be able to adjust the tack and halyard independently from each other.

Thanks for reminding me about that last part Jake, I forgot. That is one very good advantage of the separate tack line and came in quite handy at Tradewinds. You can rig it so the luff is tight when fully extended and if the wind lightens up you can then adjust it out a little to soften (flatten) the luff or if you have to reach really high that helps too.

Ok, thanks for the comments. Looks like I'll have to go with a separate tack line then!

One question though: If I put the spin halyard cleat up on the mast I will have extra leverage, but also have to reach back behind the main when sailing "odd angles" right? That would seem to negate one advantage of separate tack control...

The tack line on the diagram is actually 1:1!

Thats a good system go with it. get the lines as short as practical then the sail can't possibly go in the water

Yes,you can only hoist on one tack and need to reach right foward to release on the drop - no good for single handing [where everthing must be able to be done whilst helming]

Denis, about the reaching back behind the main for the halyard, are you talking about during the hoist or douse? On the hoist, yes, you have to hoist it kneeling on the same side of the boat as the halyard, only to clete it, usually the starboard side because we round to port at A mark. On the douse, you don't have to be over there, you only need pull down on the halyard and it should unclete from the mast, and you can retrieve it. My halyard runs back through a gromet in the middle of the tramp, so I can snuff from either gybe. My tack line goes under the front beam to a clete mounted there, through a small ring which is tied to a line that also comes up at mid tramp so I can unclete the tack from either gybe as well, and I never have to go forward of mid tramp to do any of it on the douse.

Oh, and I don't care how short you cut your lines, the spinnaker can -always- find it's way into the water, even under the low bow, if you Fk it up with a kink in either line. I know this from experience!

That's a similar setup as the one I got on my 5.2 with minor differences:

- As it was said before, you don't need the double purchase for the tack line. Just run a line from the tack with a block at the end. Less drag, less hardware.

- I've tried and removed the bungie and blocks which are pulling the slack of the sheet and halyard. I feel I don't need it for the sheet, I simply cross it with the main sheet so they keep each other somewhat in place. And for the halyard tensioner it tends to pull on the retrieval lines, this lead to the line chaffing on the spi, which leads to holes at the bottom of it. Bad.

- I don't have, and do not feel the need for, a bungie between the two sheet blocks. They keep themselves in place without any. (BTW, on mine the blocks further back are harken auto-rachet blocks, the blocks attached to the front beam are simple harken blocks, there is no need to have two ratchet in sequence)

- My mid pole/bag setup with 3 patches on the spi doesn't come back under the tramp, but right in front of the front beam. It is short enough to fit. With two patches you would need a longer bag and a way to get out under the trampoline. I used both a Hobie 16 spi and a F16 spi on my 5.2 (17.5m2 for both). YMMV if you have a larger spi. I use a Stealth bag and ring, they were the cheapest I could find at the time for good quality hardware.

also a note about the halyard block/cleat being high up the mast... i had real issues with my ronstan swivel halyard cleat. it was about 1' up the mast and when i was doucing it wanted to get fouled... and recleat itself. i had tried removing the fairlead cover, it helped but that didn't cure it...i ended up lowering it and using a spin-lock... i love that spin-lock

The Tigers now come with a separate tack line. I have tried both ways and my wife likes the separate tack line. Easier to get up the mast that way.
Also for single handing you may want to put the halyard /retrieval line out to the rear corner of the tramp rather than the middle. Then its there when you need it.

I used to run my halyard to a pully on bungie cord off the rear beam but found I kept kneeling on it while trying to snuff, which makes for a slow takedown! So now it just floats free and I try to stay away from it while hoisting or snuffing. As I approach A mark I take a look down at the tramp, check the lines to see that they are clear and will not hang up when I hoist. Same goes for downwind just before coming into C mark, I do a quick lookabout to see that all the lines are free and clear, and un-kinked, before I douse.

I still bunji the dousing line to the back of the boat but I don't use a block anymore. I use a cheap aluminum carabiner from WalMart and it does two things for me: 1) when I invariably forget to route the dousing line through it, I can just clip it in now, and 2) unlike a block, when the line gets a kink in it, it goes through the caribiner and most of the time it straightens out the kink. The kink would jam in a block of appropriate size for the line.

I use those stupid cheap carabiners everwhere I need to retain a line but they don't need to carry much load (lazy throughput of the spin sheet and mainsheet retainer on my a-cat).

Tape the 'biner closed Jake. I used to run one too until the spinsheet got sucked into it accidentally and made a proper mess of things when we needed to drop the chute to get around one of those impromptu lake lanier islands :P