Ehhh Mike,




The correct answer is actually 2 times !

With respect to wind dependent ratings. Texel actually tried them 4 years ago but the RC's refused to use them and the racers refused to put pressure on the RC's to use them. So is this really a drawback inherent of a measurement based system ?


Researching facts and claims before mouthing off is a good advice for both you and Tim it seems.


To the other readers, a measurement based system is not necessarily static. Its describing function can be modified according to need. Texel and SCHRS for example have seen several revisions over their lifespans.

Lets have this discussion on facts rather then misconceptions, believes and ignorance.

Wouter

I do see Jake's point though, and Mike's, using a straight measurement only system doesn't chang the numbers for such things as a new type of mast (Carbon and/or wing type vs. older types) and newer hull shapes, etc.

But in order for Portsmouth to be accurate, I think we should be taking times at every major regatta, even if the fleets are not sailing together. And with GPS's it should be fairly easy for the RC to measure the distance from say, A to C mark(Ban the B!) hack the clock as the first Inter 20 rounds, then again when the first F 18, the the first A cat, etc. and get times for the fastest boat in each class going upwind, then down. Then you take that time and compare it to the existing P numbers to see how far and it what direction the numbers might be off.

You could do this at every Nationals, and at Tradewinds, and Spring Fever, etc, or any big regatta where the top tallent in each class is racing.

Just time the first boat in each class over the same distance, upwind and down, once during each race and then use several races to get a useful average time over that same course, then compare them to each other fleet.

Yes, yes... "you" could do this.

Portsmouth does not care about distance...it's a relative time on time rating.

And John's completely right...like anything, it takes people doing something to accomplish something. I think there are some ways to leverage technology to make reporting easier...but that's another topic.

Maybe the Feds would kick in several million of stimulus money to get this project underway...give a few unemployed sailors a job. Seems timely and good for the economy!

And Dave, don't forget to use that ever-popular buzz word, GREEN! Yes, it burns no carbon, no foriegn oil, uses only wind and hydro power! Sounds like a gubmint project waiting to happen. I think it might take a few million $$$ though, to buy the needed new equipment, I'm thinking at least 10 of each of all the cat classes, and we'll need sailors, and GPS units for each...

And thankfully it's not the pig sh!t project!

Neither do the Yardstick system for that matter.

I mean, yardstick system ONLY look at the name of the boat, in this case F18, and not whether that particular boat is fitted with a wingmast or not. In that sense measurement based system are clearly better as these CAN distinguish between a carbon mast and an alu mast (if indeed you want to make that distinction).

If 50% of the F18 fleet is made up of Tiger then these will dominate the yardstick ratings, not they handful of Capricorns that are running around.

Again, this discussion about rating systems is turning toward gut feelings and entrenched believes, not scientific discourse. That way we not get anywhere. Others may recognize such a situation as a "Wouter moment"

Wouter

Hey racers, maybe you should jump the fence and try to RC for a few months. I have been doing it for roughly six months now. My primary job at GYC was number cruncher and what a PITA job that was. You all want this or want that, but do not offer to do it yourselves.

I have to sit in the RC boat for three to four hours, launch the races, take your times, make sure no one is over early, argue with the racers after they get back that there position is wrong or there name is mispelled and you want me to score using other ratings like Texel or SCHRS?

You gotta be MAD! Sailing is fun isnt it? RC is fun as well, but once you all start b!tching and moaning it takes the fun out of both.

Run what ya brung and stfu! Dont like it? buy a line honors boat. Seriously! this crap gets old after so many times, cant you all be content with what you sail.

hahahah....I completely agree (about the scientific comparison part). All of the discussions about accuracy of one system over the other has definitely not been looked at from a numbers perspective and is wrapped up in the ball of "gut feel".

Me happy!

In case that argument was directed at me.

I've done my fair share of RC work as well. Was even club-race official at my own club for a while.

Wouter

My argument was towards the general audience, I was not singling anyone out as of yet.

Are we debating "which boat is better" again?

I agree with Ding, if you want to know "who's the best sailor", it would be easier to all be on the same boat or class.

I don't think there is any reasonable method of figuring out "what is the best race car, a Baha 1000 winner, a 24 hour Sebring winner, a NASCAR winner, a Rally Car winner, or an F1 winner?" They all do the same thing (drive over terrain), but there's no way to really compare.

Pick a boat you can have fun with your friends in your area. Stop trying to "win" by DPN numbers.

Nobody is trying to win based on their number, just trying to get accurate numbers so mixed fleet racing is more fair. I do not favor mixed fleet racing, but until we get more of every type of boat showing up, it will have to do.

Did you guys know Ashby has a new A-cat design coming out soon?
http://www.ashbysails.com/blog/

The, uhhh, geltek flyer that came out last year? (that post was June 2008).

You have to do it with Chimps not people that way you take skill out of it.

I see the date but the boat only just came out a couple of weeks ago. Mk 3 Flyer.

Gashby would have won the vic states on a mk4 boyer, so its not really a good test yet.

Just to clarify the Geltek Flyer. The prototypes of the Geltek Flyer II were launched at the Australian Titles held at Sorrento Vic in January 2006. Production started later that year. I have hulls numbered 24 built in February 2007. The updated boat mentioned was launched as a prototype 0n 28 Feb 2009 at the Victorian State Titles. There are photos and some details on the Ashby blog site listed above. It's also mentioned in a thread I put on the A Class forum here. End of thread hijack - sorry.

Cheers
John Dowling
AUS9

keep hijacking...this thread has gone to pot anyway...

Is there any information about what's different on the new prototype?