Hi guys,

There is an Inter 18 for sale out there, that interests me.

What are the main difference between an Inter 18 and an F18 (non Infusion)?

I'd like to get my hands on an F18 (any manufacturer) but they are a little price for me. And despite occasional racing I do more recreational sailing still. Just got back from 10days in FL sailing "Frank The Tank" in the gulf, still a fun boat with friends. But is sucked moving it around the beach every morning end evening this thing has to be 500lbs and the beach was 100ft long.

I want something lighter and faster than my Getaway and newer than an old H16.

The new NACRA 570 Sport with Square Top and Spinnaker looks like a lot of fun at 19ft and 360lbs..... But that too is pricey.

Bjorn

It is an F18 class boat.

The I18 is the eighteen foot version of the Inter 20/Nacra 20. It is an 18 foot boat with volume before volume was cool.

There used to be one in the Melbourne area on the market for a very long time but sadly it finally sold and left the area.

With an alloy stick. The carbon snuffer isn't F18 class legal either.

So you have to use an Al pole and snuffer?

You don't have to use aluminum...but it can't be carbon.

Is Inter 18 the old name for the F18 (Non Infusion)? That commonly is referred to as the NACRA F18?

The Inter 18 was around before F18 was born. It just happens to fit the F18 box rule. The I18 is probably not as optimized an F18 but it is a pretty solid boat.

OK, so how much for a 2001 with trailer and original "white" sails and a trailer, no Spinnaker Otherwise in OK shape.

B.2.3. BOWSPRIT
The bowsprit shall be made of extruded aluminium profile of constant section.
The length shall not be greater than the distance, measured in total from its attachment point
from the centre of the front beam to the vertical line touching the most forward part of the hull,
with the bowsprit measured when level to the deck of the catamaran, plus an additional
800mm.
The bowsprit shall be fixed and approximately on the longitudinal centreline of the boat. See
diagram.
The forward end of the bowsprit shall be rounded and blunt.

http://www.catsailor.com/bestof_articles/Art_Inter18.html

Just for you Jake... F18 before I18

Bjorn

Do you want to race this boat in F18 class OD races?

The US Inter 18's were supplied with a carbon mast and larger then F18 Class legal main. The Inter 18 was also sold to Nacra Europe with an Alu Mast and F18 class legal sail and this boat was fully compliant with the F18 rule in Europe. (It competed at the time with Dart Hawk....) The design was replaced by Nacra with the F18 and later with the Infusion models. Some of the Inter18's in the USA were grandfathered into the NAF18 class with their carbon mast for a limited time. They were supposed to purchase a class legal mast to update the boat by some date certain.. You prospective boat could have one of these rigs so you should check.

So, If the boat in question has a carbon mast you won't be F18 class legal. This is not a problem though if you just want to go racing in any open class race in your area. If you are rec sailing... just keep the paint touched up and enjoy a nice ride.

welp, chalk me up for two Razzberries tonight!

I had no idea F18 was around in 1996 (I started sailing in 2000) and I was definitely mistaken about the aluminum spin pole on the F18.

I believe that was the Dart Hawk and it was the design that partly inspired the F18 class. The nacra Inter 18 however was designed to the F18 rules, then still young and exclusively in EU, much like the Hobie Tiger (1995). Initially the F18 class wasmade up by the Alado F18 (became Tiger later), Dart Hawk and some Mattia design.

Ohh, I see others had already reacted to these claims. Sorry.

Wouter

So how would a Dart Hawk do against the current generation if fitted with new aft beam and updated sails?

How about a set of HT hulls as a basis for a F18? Good idea or waste of time?

Can anybody comment on the differience between the Bimare F18 hull shape and the HT? In pictures it looks pretty similiar.

They probably have a bit more resin in them!

Will the HT hulls be able to take the loads from a jib bridle gracefully?

The Hawks around are in my price range so buying one of those with the aim of replacing the hulls with something else (homebuilt) later on is attractive. This is all pure conjecture for now as we are going to launch and enjoy our F16s, but we are looking at adding an F18 to the fleet. It looks like the F18 class is taking off here in Norway and we want to be part of that also. Going through an Hawk, if they can be competitive on national level with good sails, seems like an affordable way into the class.

Very hard to say. so many factors. Mostly revolve around, supply / demand and how badly the seller wants/needs to get rid of it.

There is some "blue book" value insurance companies would butts it at... but even that is probably "way off".

The better question (to yourself) is.... is the asking price seem fair for the value of the boat to me.

Not always possible, but i would ALWAYS suggest you take the boat out for a test ride to get a good look at its setup, rigging, check for issues... etc. You wouldn't buy a used car without a testdrive...

wait...Jake's only been multihull racing since 2000? Jeeze, I thought you'd been at this way longer than that...

The new F18 Bimare hulls are 12kg - (each) heavier than the new HT hulls, so you've got a lot of room to add reinforcement for jib bridals, etc. The beams are too narrow, so they need to be replaced.

The mast has to be replaced, sails, spin, add rigging for a jib,new beams.

Probably not worth the effort, just another random thought.

If you have HT hulls. go for it! I did and am quite happy. Use a front bar or bridal foil to distribute the loads from a jib.

Here is how we have done it-

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=141814#Post141814

Nope...crewed on an SRMax 21 sport boat in October 1999 that set the hook. Bought an old beatup Nacra 5.2 that December.

Bill,
Don't the HT hulls have carbon in them or are they made of all carbon?
If so that would make them illegal as a platform.
-Todd

20 years is a long time in F18 Rolf!

Nope, glass and foam.

So a Hawk with good sails and new rearbeam is a dog? More so than a Tiger? Honestly, I dont know so I am asking.

I've been told the Hawk has a good hullshape(Have not had a look at one for ages mind); I wonder if they did get lazy with the Vx40's and just copy it, or is WAS a good shape.

Would be interesting to see a good Hawk with decent sails to see how well it went.

The Hawk with a new rear beam and rig (ie including mast) will be just as quick as every other F18. I bet anyone who tells you otherwise can't live without their i-phone.

I'd like to be able to race, but my main goal is just to have fun. I still have some friends and now a wife who greatly enjoy going out sailing and and just having fun of the water.

One other concern I'm having with an F18 is the rigging time. With the Getaway and H16 I can be sailing 15-20min after arriving at the water with the boat on a trailer. I can push that to 30min, but after that it will start to impose on my interest to take it out for just an hour or two. Other than that I'd love to have a race boat.

I agree on the Test Drive. One thing I have noticed is that all F18, F16 and one design (A Cat) keeps their value well compared to other non race cats. I understand that this is because they are attractive classes and participation is good. I do feel the boat I'm looking at is priced just bellow the cost of a 2000 Tiger, in similar shape. My thoughts are that if this cat does follow the F18 rules then it's priced well. But it if falls outside of the rule, then it's just "another" cat and maybe not such a great deal... I don't know.

That is the big trade off. Sounds like you have the right boat and you can still race it if you want to.

Put Hiram's Haul on your calendar, you won't regret it!

The Inter 18 is a great boat, mines in my back garden at the minute. They are fully F18 legal. They're well equipped and well built, but it is worth to check the bottom before you buy one as they can get quite messed up on inters. The only weak spot on them is down wind in waves where waves hit the front beam and dolphin striker.

The hawk is alright boat aswell but from what i gather it lacks a bit of bouancy in the bow.

If the boat and sails are in good shape it would be a good boat.

The set up time off a trailer could be done in 30 minutes since you don't have a spinnaker.

Two items that make a huge difference are a good set of boat Wheels, You simply cannot drag this boat on the ground (and keep it in one piece)... Hopefully they are included in the package (big inflatable black wheels are better then small inflateable orange wheels better then hard blue plastic wheels.)

Also a good sail box on the trailer will be important. You will need to store a bit more gear. Unlike your current boat... you will have to pull out and put boards on the boat... Attach the boom to the mast. Pull out and put the rudders and tiller bar and then zipper on the jib. Since you are trailering around you will need to wrap them so they don't chip or put them in bags in your sail box. If the mast is carbon... it should be the same effort to hoist it and then have your partner pin the forestay as your current boat. You could spend a couple three years learning to sail the boat with the existing sails while slowly getting in the racing game. It's a big step up from where you are at. When the racing bug bites...Race the boat in open class... when the spin bug bites... buy a used spin from the F18 fleet and race with those guys... When you are REALLY bitten... upgrade to a more recent race ready model... when the lottery comes in.... go crazy!

Have fun

If you need a sailbox, I know Trey has ONE MORE Lunchbox that he needs to unload. They are the ULTIMATE sailboxes. Made from polished diamondplate aluminum, you'll be the envy of pickup truck drivers everywhere for the size of your diamondplate box

I got one of Trey's very nice aluminum sailboxes last year, so I'm all set there.

Mark..

Do you think I can rig this boat and get it in the water in about 30min? It does come with beach wheels, that will be an improvement over dragging 500lbs across the sand, you can't harm the Getaway though, it is an undestructable tank.

well, one is never enough :P

True, just look at Zanders, he's got 2 I think.

yes, he does, and though I designed those boxes on Zander's setup, they're neither as shiny nor as fancy as Trey's! I work at a place that does $10s of millions a year in fabrication and I couldn't come close to Trey's price on those boxes after materials, doing the fab work myself, and two cases of beer for the welder.

Yes, getting one of Trey's were one of the better investments I've made.

I get aluminum scuff marks on rudders and sail from the Aluminum rubbing. I know a sail bag would take care of that. But what about covering the bottom with that stuff the put on boat trailers, the fabric the actual boat "glides" on?

Well if your partner is your spousal unit... probably not... they don't order around quite so well!

I think most people work out a system of leaving the rigging attached, tying the rigging down and leaving blocks and sheets attached and stuffed into pockets. As a team they get a sloop rigged boat ready to go in half hour of when they pull up to the launch it can be done. If you are not racing the boat.. you don't need to lead a lot of control lines out to the wire and hook up lots of returns etc which save a lot of time. A few quick release pins at the goose neck and tiller extension speed you along. If you get to a regatta the fleet will help you out and you can learn a lot about efficient ways to rig the boat.

I find the getaway tough to move on the beach for some reason so this boat should be no worse.

Shooting the breeze will slow you down as well

I have one of Trey's Lunchboxes - great deal. I lined it with I/O carpet to eliminate the abrasion of road travel. Basically cut the carpet to fit, then affixed using a can of 3M Super 77 spray adhesive - whole job took about 10 minutes using free carpet remnants.

spray adhesive or contact cement coupled with some carpet from Home Depot or Lowes will take care of that. Carpet your box.

Swell did revamp the Hawk as the Hawk 2. I didn't help much, only one made and i think that it is for sale somewehere at the moment

Its the rear beam that hits the waves on the inter18 - bloody uncomfortable and slow habit that!

There are very few boats that are able to be rigged under 30 min. My cat takes about and hour. If i didn't leave my spin in the snuffer that adds another 20 minutes.

I would be VERY surpirsed if you could rig a f-18 under 45 min.

I was afraid of that, and from helping people rig their Tiger I would have to agree.

Like Mark said, if you leave some rigging tied down and don't start from scratch every time, than that would cut down some as well. While at regattas and it would be left up for 3 days, I don't mind the 1.5h it takes to rig it. It's the days at the beach when you get there at 12-1pm trying to catch the ocean breeze and leave at 5pm for dinner, that would be hurt.

Once you have a system worked out, you can get it done pretty fast. 30 Minutes is ambitious but if you're motivated then it might be possible. To be honest, lacing the spin snuffer line takes the longest out of any single task.

What is I/O carpet? It is that black trailer carpet you see on marine trailers?
This Stuff?

Note: be careful not to store quick pins in your tiller... i have seen several seize and have to be drilled out.

Indoor / Outdoor

2 experienced people with the goal of being rigged quickly can put up an F18 in 30 minutes...but few people get in that kind of hurry and there's usually beer involved...it's more typically like 45 minutes to an hour.

A guy at Nacra NAs this year from Canada showed up 20 minutes before everyone was heading out on the water and had his F18 rigged in 15 minutes. He had came straight from another regatta a few hours away and had almost everything set to go... spinpole on, spin in the snuffer, rigging on, boom and boards on the tramp.
Not sure I would practice this method but it seemed to work fine for him.

Most of the guys i sail with keep the pole on the boat, spin in the snuff.... all the time. 3 of the guys have had good luck with their spin and have had it (and used it well) for several years without much problem.

I personally leave mine on unless i need to repair small holes. at that time i wash it, dry it, and patch it. Then i flake it till next sail. I know this may decrease its life by 10-20% but the time and hastle it saves is worth it to me (as i sail EVERY weekend)

During the summer we do races every Wednesday evening. Depending on traffic sometimes I end up at the club really really late. I've rigged my boat in less than 15 minutes in those conditions, and that includes getting my drysuit on. This said, I start with a mast up and a spin in its bag already, so the only things to do really are getting the boat of its trailer on the beach wheels, and getting the main and spars out of the sailbox and onto the right place on the boat.

And of course the bungs. Don't forget the bungs. Don't Ask Me How I Know

Mast up storage is cheating. :-)

Non mast up is just too much like hard work.

Leaving your spin outside in your snuffer would decrease the life alot more than 10-20%! Especially in Florida.

Why do you say that?

the guys i sail with have had the same spin in their snuffer for years... with 100's of uses.

One guy even told me last week he has never even rigged his spin. he never took it off the boat since he bought it.

Mine is about 6 month old with over 70 uses (est). I have had some small holes where the retrieval line has burned through the cloth... but not bad.

ack!

Spin comes off after every event. Neatly flaked and put back in its sack.

Got a Hairball?

yeah, I almost choked on it when you said that you keep your spi in the snuffer sock all the time!

But are you sure it's better that way?

It's supposed to last a LOT longer that way.


I've also been told that leaving it in the snuffer bag outside that the bag will actually intensify the rays from the Sun.

It might not be that BAD, but I don't want to find out.


Mike

Certainly better than letting it sit on my pole, with an abrasive line running through the middle of it, letting the UV kill the snuffer bag, and letting acid rain pool inside the spin.

Well i have heard everything.. from flake it... to flaking causes weak spots along the folds.
I have tried removing, washing drying and flaking (which is interesting living in an apartment on the 3rd floor) and only to rip it on my furler...

I do have a tarp over my boat and most of my snuffer. I cover the mouth of the snuffer with a dacron cover i made (from an old jib) that keeps most of the water, bugs and bird poop out.

Since i sail every weekend... and use the spin every weekend... the time savings is tremendous.

Last weekend i spent 30 minutes rigging it... only to find it was wrong (during launch) and had to mess with it 2 more times to get it correct....

Yes i will probably have to replace it a little sooner than if i babied it.. but as much as i use it... it doenst seem that big a deal to me.

I'll bet it's whisper quiet when goes up and down too. Those crispy spins can be sooooo annoying.

It has extra rigid headboard and actually was problematic before it was softened up a little. It still is pretty crispy... and snuffs much better...

I know you guys all have your methods... and have lots of experience,.. but if i save 30-40 minutes of rig time, get to sail more, have less issues with snuffing, have less errors in running the retrieval lines... i will accept the fact that i will have to replace it after 400 snuffs vs. 500....

Stick that in your snu!

Now that's funny!!!


Mike

Yeah, I guess I had that reaction coming.

Anyho, from past experience the difference isn't 400 and 500 it's more like 400 and 800. I used to just stuff it in the spin bag and throw it in the truck. When I started flaking it (dry of course) it made a significant difference.

And yes, you're trading spin life for setup time. It all depends where the priorites are.

800 vs 400 is significant. perhaps i will reconsider my priorities.

Its not just the rigging time, but rinse / dry / flake takes allot of effort in my apartment.

It's not great to leave the kite in the chute without a cover on it. If we are sailing the next weekend we will leave the kite chute but we've got a full cover that goes over the whole chute, and keeps it nicely protected. If its not in the chute we just put it in the bag as flaking a kite supposedly doesn't really gain you anything.
There are quick and simple ways to rig a kite so that it only takes 5-10 mins.

Rigging from scratch isnt too bad either when your used to it, if you set to it could be done in 30 mins.

Build yourself a massive sail box were you can put the whole pole in. Then you can keep the kite in the snuffer.

If needed, my crew and I could go from tilt trailer to rigged in 30 mins. However it normally took us an hour due to talking with everyone.

see... more mixed info

I saw that, but I'm going to take the advise from the guys who basically do it for a living. And that person told me to Flake it.

I was told by Robbie and Jill (pros) when i bought the spin from them that flaking it would extend it's life as well. I do believe it is true.

Did they include instructions?

Just showed me...:)

I think someone posted in that thread on how to do it.

It's really not that hard, but it is harder to do if you do it yourself. Like me and I believe you.

I did it last week after soaking it in Holmekol. I just had to walk side to side and straighten the middle. It's more work, but if it's going to last longer, it's worth it to me.


Mike

yes, Jill showed me how to do it... its not hard.

From personal experience I can't tell whether is has any effect. For winter storage I flake but during the 5 months of sailing I just thrown it in the bag. My spi is from 2003 and the first two causes for spi degrading are respectively; being blown-out (1 to 2 years), damage from the retrieval line.

I'm still using this spi despite its sticking spi tape retrieval line damage repairs. But you can feel it is really blown-out and have been for some time.

I have yet to see any damage from not-flaking and wouldn't even know what kind of damage that can cause.

Wouter

Everything I was going to say about leaving a spinnaker out has been said. The sailcloth degrades from UV rays, obv the coatings help but not that much. The constant moisture will also degrade the sail.
I'd agree with Ding that leaving a spinnaker (or any sail) outside would decrease it's life by about 50%

My prefered method of storage is in the snuffer bag so it is not stuffed into a small bag. I do however either take the retrieval line out or make sure there is no tension against the sail.
Flaking is better than stuffing it into a small bag but i'd prefer rolling or keeping it fairly loosely stuffed in a bag.

Krona, check your PMs.

I don't see anything...

He was probably making sure you do check them periodically.