| Stealths Grant Piggot sails #180759 06/03/09 10:05 AM 06/03/09 10:05 AM |
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 41 Geneva, Switzerland johnfullerton OP
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Posts: 41 Geneva, Switzerland | Hi
I have the landenberger sails on my stealth, I believe they are more for single handle use(lighter weight).
Are Grant Piggot sails better suited for heavy weights.
I'm sailing with 135kg helm+crew in a low wind area.
bye
Sarah and John Stealth 551 RS400 871
| | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: johnfullerton]
#180765 06/03/09 10:49 AM 06/03/09 10:49 AM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K Mark P
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Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K | Hi John I weigh around 75kgs and have a MK2 Landy mainsail. After racing in moderate to strong winds and advice of John Pearce I took the decision in 2007 to have Grant Piggott re-cut the Luff to flatten the sail. Now the max curve of the Luff is 90-95mm. I feel I am more competitive in stronger winds but have to be really careful in the lighter stuff in regard to sail tuning. So I think the newer Landy mains are a great sail for the heavier single hander and two up crews. However, Grant's mains are obviously very similar in shape to the Landy with just a little less foot length and slightly longer leach. I guess we have a slight difference of opinion but that could just be because of the difference between the MK1 and 2 Landy mainsails. As for Grants sails being better for 2 ups & heavy weights I'm not aware of any 2 up teams using them at present. P.S Grant made his first F16 Kite for me using the measurements I supplied and it's hot.
Last edited by Mark P; 06/03/09 10:50 AM.
MP*MULTIHULLS | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: Mark P]
#180766 06/03/09 11:17 AM 06/03/09 11:17 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Hi John I weigh around 75kgs and have a MK2 Landy mainsail. After racing in moderate to strong winds and advice of John Pearce I took the decision in 2007 to have Grant Piggott re-cut the Luff to flatten the sail. Now the max curve of the Luff is 90-95mm. I feel I am more competitive in stronger winds but have to be really careful in the lighter stuff in regard to sail tuning. So I think the newer Landy mains are a great sail for the heavier single hander and two up crews. However, Grant's mains are obviously very similar in shape to the Landy with just a little less foot length and slightly longer leach. I guess we have a slight difference of opinion but that could just be because of the difference between the MK1 and 2 Landy mainsails. As for Grants sails being better for 2 ups & heavy weights I'm not aware of any 2 up teams using them at present. P.S Grant made his first F16 Kite for me using the measurements I supplied and it's hot. Grant and I designed the mainsail and the Kite was a collaboration of measuremnts supplied from Mark and taken from my Landy Spi which was designed for the dropped bow fitting (and thus longer pole) of the 2007 Stealth. The brief for the Spi(I had no 2 after Mark) was to make a flatter sail that, as a result, would need to be driven harder to get results, but after experience with Inter 17 kites and having Grant make me 2, I was certain flat was faster - every kite Grant has made me has been flatter than the one before. As mark says, they are hot! The mainsail was driven out of my belief that the landy sail was too full for the lighter sailor and that more area up top would be faster overall and easier to control in a blow. We were aiming to build a flatter sail than the Mk2 Landy with more area in the head, as a result the foot would have to be shorter. I've not sailed my Stealth 2 up yet, but hopefully will be in the next couple of weeks and will report back. From sailing with both the Mk2 landy mainsail and GP single handed, I can report the GP is more powerful as there is more area up top AND is more controlable as you can twist off the head more easily than the Landy - however the sheet loads are higher with the GP sail. The GP has less luff curve than the landy sail.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: pepin]
#180882 06/04/09 08:10 AM 06/04/09 08:10 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Just got my new crispy shiny new GP spi. It was delivered five minutes ago...
First impressions:
* compared to my previous spi it is *light*. My previous spis (a Hobie 16 spi, and a Ullmann Stealth original) were heavier. This one is paper thin.
* Colorful. After a dark blue (Ullmann) and a white and light blue (Hobie) I chose a flashy red with yellow center...
Now I need to make a pole extension, as my pole is probably too short for this spi, and move the sheet blocks forward. Eric, Give JP a call, he converted one boat at Mumbles (Wayne???) to have a longer pole. Did not take too Long IIRC.
Last edited by scooby_simon; 06/04/09 08:19 AM.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: scooby_simon]
#180884 06/04/09 08:20 AM 06/04/09 08:20 AM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 976 France pepin
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Posts: 976 France | Eric, Give JP a call, he converted one boat at Mumbles to have a longer pole. I did. Two weeks ago. He send me an email today with pricing info. Apparently he's got problems getting carbon tubes these days, but he's got enough off-cut in his workshop to build me an extension. New boats are probably going to have an aluminum pole...
Last edited by pepin; 06/04/09 08:20 AM.
| | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: pepin]
#180895 06/04/09 08:59 AM 06/04/09 08:59 AM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K Mark P
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Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K | Just a reminder! Before you fly your new kite tip the boat over and use lots of Duck & Electrical tape around your spreaders and hounds, and check your fore stay and bridles etc for any sharp bits. As you are probably aware there is almost nothing worse than putting unnecessary holes in sails. PS. I'm positive your new kite will be money well spent although I hope you wont use it too often for Club racing. MP*MULTIHULLS | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: Mark P]
#180903 06/04/09 09:38 AM 06/04/09 09:38 AM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 976 France pepin
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Posts: 976 France | [...]use lots of Duck & Electrical tape around your spreaders and hounds I think there is a whole roll of tape already on the boat ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default/smile.gif) [...]I hope you wont use it too often for Club racing. Considering that I do not have another kite (the Ullman exploded in a gust a couple of month ago, the well used Hobie is going back to the 5.2 where it belong) I'm going to use this new kite all the time... | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: pepin]
#181038 06/05/09 01:54 AM 06/05/09 01:54 AM |
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 41 Geneva, Switzerland johnfullerton OP
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Posts: 41 Geneva, Switzerland | The view am getting is for the main.
MK1 Landy mainsail is highly efficient sail over most wind conditions which has to well control to get the best out of it.
GP Have more up top so are easier/simpler to use in low wind. Plus are more easier to dump wind in high wind. Downside more sheet load, and most likely less efficient in mid strength winds.
Kite GP prefer to be sail higher.
Sarah and John Stealth 551 RS400 871
| | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: johnfullerton]
#181039 06/05/09 02:10 AM 06/05/09 02:10 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | The view am getting is for the main.
MK1 Landy mainsail is highly efficient sail over most wind conditions which has to well control to get the best out of it.
GP Have more up top so are easier/simpler to use in low wind. Plus are more easier to dump wind in high wind. Downside more sheet load, and most likely less efficient in mid strength winds.
Kite GP prefer to be sail higher. I'd not quite agree with that. Manisail Landy mainsail is a good sail, but the GP IS Better all round. But, because the GP sail is flatter, you do have to be more accurate to get the best from it. Kite It does need to be driven harder, so you head up more to start with, but as the apparent wind builds, you sail deeper. When sailing against other Stealths with Landy kites, I sail the same (or deeper) angles, but I am sheeted in harder as the apparent wind as built more and thus I am going faster. It's better all round! You also need to remember that the GP sails are at least two evolutions ahead of the Landy sails now (I am not aware of any developments on the landy sails since 2007).
Last edited by scooby_simon; 06/05/09 02:16 AM.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: scooby_simon]
#181047 06/05/09 05:22 AM 06/05/09 05:22 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | You also need to remember that the GP sails are at least two evolutions ahead of the Landy sails now (I am not aware of any developments on the landy sails since 2007).
With respect to the Stealth Carbon mast that is. As the development with regard to the Superwing alu mast is ongoing, because the EU Blades come with Landenberger sails. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#181071 06/05/09 11:04 AM 06/05/09 11:04 AM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K Mark P
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Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K | In regard to the Stealth's with a longer foot than the Blade which is approx 225mm shorter, I'm only aware of two versions, the original MK1 and improved MK2 with a bigger fat head. So the Blade Landy mains are a totally different animal which have a higher aspect ratio. I'm not positive but the two Landy Blade mains that I've seen do not look that similar. Hans's and Paul's leeches appear to be different shapes and Paul often sails with his original (Ullman?) main when single handing using his Landy only when 2 up. So to answer your question Rolf, yes there are at least 4 differing types of Landy F16 mains available which I know of. I'm affraid I still haven't got round to learning how to post pictures since this forum's upgrade but if you have a look at the 2007 F16 World Championships pictures on the Mumbles Yacht Club website (especially one of the line up shots from the rear) you'll notice that Hans's main is pretty much unique and if your very observant I'm pretty sure his yellow kite is also a Landy one off (MYC website 2008 gallery F16 Global Challenge). I'm not convinced it's a good kite! but I'm usually so far behind by the time I get to see it up I could be wrong [:-(] http://www.mumblesyachtclub.co.uk/index.php?menu=photos
Last edited by Mark P; 06/05/09 11:19 AM.
MP*MULTIHULLS | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#181077 06/05/09 11:44 AM 06/05/09 11:44 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Rolf, EU blades are typically VWM Blades that are imported and slightly modified by www.catamaranparts.nl Their standard suit of sails is Landenberger. But you'll also find Ullman's, Ashby's and Glaser suit of sails. The Landenberger spi from 2006 was a good design. Light sheet loads and good depth without losing speed. It is not a reaching spi however. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: Gilo]
#181092 06/05/09 01:23 PM 06/05/09 01:23 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | I'd expect the Landy sails for the Blades to be very different to the L Stealth sails.
The Stealth has a tapered mast so needs a different luff shape where the taper kicks in.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: Gilo]
#181097 06/05/09 01:42 PM 06/05/09 01:42 PM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen ![](/forum/images/groups/mod.gif)
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | It is good to hear that Landy is doing active work on his F16 designs instead of resting on his laurels ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default/smile.gif) Getting Grant Piggot in on the scene in addition to the Glasers and others can only be good. I have only sailed with a Landenberger spi once, after ripping our race spi. It was fast, but not as fast as the Gran Segel spi we ripped. We had to set it up differently and sail it a bit differently. It was pink, and Landy had written "sorry about the color" on the luff ![grin grin](/forum/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif) I digress.. All sails are different in my opinion and to get the most from them, you need to know the boat well enough to feel the difference and know when it is at target speed. Mark, so many pictures of people I have never met.. Hard to find the right pictures. If you have the links directly to the pics you referred to, it would be great if you could PM some of them. I'll do a tutorial on how to post pictures in response ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif) Gilo, I think I have asked about the age of your jib before? It is quite fresh, is it not? Do you have any photos of you sailing upwind taken from directly in front of you? I would like to see how the luff is with you sailing upwind. We had a Tornado Landy jib once, and it was brilliant, so his F16 design should not be off the pace compared to other designs. Same for your spi, how thight is the luff if you hoist it on land? Pics from in front while sailing?? How tight is the luff line set? When we set up the landy Tornado spi, we hoisted it with a loose luff line so we could twist a fist holding the luff about 45deg. Then we tensioned the luff line so we could twist a fist grabbing the luff about half that. This gave us a responsive luff with good speed and power. If your sail have too much draft, I would look at flattening the luff. Lots of fun tuning to do with spins, but sometimes the design is just slow. Hard to tell though without time and somebody to juggle ideas with. I better stop now before the thread is hijacked. | | | Re: Stealths Grant Piggot sails
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#181131 06/05/09 05:27 PM 06/05/09 05:27 PM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 976 France pepin
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Posts: 976 France | A lady at Datchet ordered a brand new Stealth and asked for a pink spi. It is quite a statement on the water! And frankly, pink is nicer than the purple horror Wayne and Simon are sailing with ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default/smile.gif) so many pictures of people I have never met.. Hard to find the right pictures. If you have the links directly to the pics you referred to[...] I don't know them either, but Hans must be the NED 111 Blade with a yellow spi. Here are some pics of it. Here are some 2008 pics: And then some 2007: [img] http://www.mumblesyachtclub.co.uk/photos/2007_09_01_f16_worlds/webs/100_0701.jpg[/img] (right click on them and select "view image" to see them at full size) | | |
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