OXO sail in italy apparently can make one for you. Complete with roller.

They have a small main, a large main, a code zero and a spi. Apparently for a Bimare F16 (which is for sale).

BTW, they are also using the wrong logo for the class.

Hi Pepin,

I have that sail. It's a furling gennaker (a downwind sail), not a code zero. It doesn't fit to 75% mid-girth rule, so it would be rated as a jib with 12 or so m²!
All the sails you listed above are not F16 compilant, since the Javelin 16 and X16 have more luff length than allowed. However as with any sailmaker, you may ask and get a sail cut for your mast.

Cheers,

Klaus

Rick, here has been pushing this for years with his hooter.

In very light air it is killer as you can run really high. Off the wind it's not so good. Also not class legal with the girth rule.

And the code zero's were a huge disaster at the last olympics. The team using one got killed by the normal spinnakers in the Tornado class.

It appears that it is a specialized sail for a limited set of conditions with an overall performance below that of a regular spinnaker.

Wouter

Wouter, when making such a sweeping staement, it might be worth addding that the conditions that were encountered at the Ollies were not what was expected and so the C0 did not have the desired wind window that they were expecting.

C0's ARE being devloped for beach cats and WILL be seen more around the course.

C0's is one area we as the SCHRS management group will be looking at again in the coming months.

OK then under what circumstances does a CO succeed ?

Simon,

I don't need you to add "context" everytime I post something. Nor do I think the other forum readers have such a need either.

Besides, your own comments are just as "sweeping" and actually confirm my comments. Therefore, I fail to understand what your posts actually clearifies about my post apart from the fact that the SCHRS committee is reconsidering something.

CO's are simply very large jibs and they behave accordingly. It is really not that hard to understand them. CO's have always been around even on the ship we build 200 years ago, we just called them differently. The current interest in them is to get around the various class rules. I doubt whether we'll see much of them on beach cats unless several rule sets and the way we race are changed fundamentally. Personally, I don't believe that to be very likely.

Wouter

A "True" code zero still rates as a Spi and fits the 75% rule, but generally within Cat circles, we talk about a C0 as a light sail (usualy maid from rip-stop nylon type clock and not "headsail" cloth) that DOES NOT measure as a Spi as it fails the 75% rule.

As for when it wortks. Fetching in light winds, and tight reaching in other conditions up to an upper wind level.

V70's use them to great effect and a number of boats use them as a matter of course. The Wetra Tri has one that fails the 75% rule. Some people also call "non 75%" C0's "screachers".

The X16 uses one, but I have no data on how well it is optimised.


There are a number of teams who are working on C0 projects at present on various other platforms.

Ok then for example at my club tonights racing forecast is about 5 - 7 knots wind, typically triangular courses where I can't quite( but almost can ) carry my spinnaker, would the C0 then be the sail of choice.

If we say ran 15sqm of C0 what would happen to our SCHRS handicap no, better or worse.

Okay, this look like a good one starting. Time to get some popcorn...

More seriously, the sail developed by three of the Tornado teams before the last olympics was a gennaker usable upwind in low wind (up to 10 knots). This sail was smaller than the regular tornado spi (7 m2 smaller according to Booth) and way way flatter. I'm assuming this sail was respecting the 75% rule.

Why has nobody tried one of those in the F18 class yet? I can imagine this could help quite a lot in low wind condition...

Also I can't remember how they called it? Chupasomething?

Exactly what I was thinking. The C0 would be the sail of choice up to 7-8knots of wind. And If the C0 respects the 75% rule, then it's a spi. You'll be slower downwind and faster on all other point of sail, but your rating won't change.

The advantage going upwind might be too small to justify such a sail when you will definitely lose a lot when going downwind.
I also dont see myself unfurling a spi during a busy start, its not a way to make new friends for sure
Regarding the Olympics, i'm still not sure if the whole C0 stuff was not there to cause confusion to the rest of the competitors.

The conditions they expected did not come, so they gambled and lost. I doubt it that the silver medalists from 2004 did this just to cause confusino to the rest of the competitors, putting themself out of contention in 2008

I dont think there was a 75% rule in the Tornado class for the 2008 games, just a minimum measurement specified in millimeters going from midpoint leech to midpoint luff. By cleverly working on the clew height and the other parameters they could build a class legal CO (to much teeth grinding from the measurers, competitors and ISAF ).


The "upwind" option is just a bonus, it is on the shy reach it should shine, or for distance racing where you sail many different courses. On W/L course the spi should be faster as the complete sailpackage with spi will give better average VMG.
If the wind is respectable or you do a lot of downwind, you loose with the CO in distance racing as well.

Just my opinion. I thought about this like 7-8 years ago when the spis was allowed on the Tornado.

The rating hit for an F16 without spi but with a giant jib sounds "special". Perhaps Simon have time to calculate it

With a TRUE C0 (so passes 75% rule) the rating gets slower to 0.989 (from 0.982)

If the sail FAILS the 75% test, then it gets a little more complex as we rate it as a Jib and thus need the luff length.

using the pole length of 3.5m and max-hoist of the spi (7.5m) and 90 degree pole angle to mast we get a max luff of 8.27m; so make it 8m to allow a bit of pole hight.

a 15sqm "jib" flying on the pole with a luff of 8m makes the rating 0.781!!!!!

This is because SCHRS only rates sails as either Spi's (Pass 75% rule) or Jibs (do not pass the 75% rule). We rate a Spi as being used some of the time and a Jib as being used ALL the time.

Simon: When you rate it as a jib, did you subtract the spi from your calculation?

Yes.

This is for a mainsail and a 15sqm "jib" flying from the Spi pole. JUST 2 sails.

If the sail fail the 75% rule, then you need two on board, the luff must be less than 6m and the sail area less than 3.7m2. Aka, you can't have a code 0 not making the 75% rule and stay F16 class legal.

If your aim is to make a killer low wind condition sail on handicap and not stay class legal make the damn thing go to the top of the mast instead of stopping at 7.5m and sheet it from blocks installed on poles on the back of the hull , it should be possible to fit 35 to 40m2 of monster jib there Even more if you make the pole longer...

The only way to stay class legal is to make something that passes the 75% rule and measure less than 17.5m2, sacrificing sail area for a more polyvalent sail which can be used upwind. Is this possible? Probably: the tornado guys did it and their mm measurement are far more restrictive and equivalent to a 81% girth rule... But then, this hypothetical sail will be interesting in a small range of conditions: relatively low wind, probably not good enough for a W/L course unless you are slowed down by current upwind, so courses with runs or really tight reaches are probably preferred.

Possible, but a headache. However if someone makes a sail, I'm voluntering to test it

Why stay class legal when most of racing outside of our events, are handicap racing. What we need to do is design a CO that will bring our handicap to that of a F18. Interestingly the EPCR would have been ideal as an experiment to test it.

Perhaps with my copious spare time I just might have ago

Go for it.

All you then need to do is get it measured and bingo!