Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 1
Hop To
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10
GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports #184540
07/08/09 07:52 PM
07/08/09 07:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Has recent doings with the automakers effected your choice in who will produce your next new vehicle?

Which will it be?
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 07/08/09 07:51 PM
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184541
07/08/09 08:14 PM
07/08/09 08:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
I'll stay with my F-250 SD Diesel.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: F-18 5150] #184545
07/08/09 10:05 PM
07/08/09 10:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Rich, I'm with you... till the economy improves and my wife finishes her second degree, my F350 PSD will be my truck of choice.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Will_R] #184549
07/08/09 11:04 PM
07/08/09 11:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Maui Cruzaahas are the only way to travel.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: hobie1616] #184550
07/08/09 11:08 PM
07/08/09 11:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 531
Lake Murray SC
FasterDamnit Offline
addict
FasterDamnit  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 531
Lake Murray SC
Does this answer your question?

[Linked Image]


Race cheap, race faster, Damnit!

E-Scow
24' ULDB

18HT hulls plus Gcat 5.7 rig = 18GT!
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Will_R] #184551
07/08/09 11:11 PM
07/08/09 11:11 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
T
TurboCat Offline
member
TurboCat  Offline
member
T

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
My fun car is an import but i get to work daily in a ford van and have a GM truck for the daily grind. Hard to say. I really like the looks of the new camaro but have a feeling every joe out there is gonna get one. A tricked out 370Z would work for me....In the weeds with a huge single turbo and a silent exhaust....Oooh. Sleeper.
If i had to replace the daily grind/ work horse i would probably get a Dodge Sprinter van. What a great multipurpose vehicle. Use it as a rv or a hauler.

This is a huge part of my screen name
[Linked Image]

Last edited by TurboCat; 07/08/09 11:16 PM.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: FasterDamnit] #184552
07/08/09 11:16 PM
07/08/09 11:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by FasterDamnit
Does this answer your question?

[Linked Image]

That definitely is no Maui Cruzaaha. Too clean and no Alabama chrome.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: hobie1616] #184554
07/09/09 12:05 AM
07/09/09 12:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Would that be duct-tape?

turbo-cat-
I love Z cars, I had a 76' that I'm still pissed about selling. Look up Darius + 240Z. Its some dude in the bay area that dropped a SC350 into a Z. The thing looks like it F-ing moves. Greddy, HKS, one of those had a pretty reasonable twin turbo kit, not compound, for the 350Z, I think it was less than $5k and 500hp in a mild tune. That's pretty cheap fun too.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184556
07/09/09 12:18 AM
07/09/09 12:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline
old hand
SurfCityRacing  Offline
old hand

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
As a general rule I don't drive anything with a plastic dash board. grin

[Linked Image]


Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: SurfCityRacing] #184563
07/09/09 06:00 AM
07/09/09 06:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171
Cary, NC
Storz Offline
member
Storz  Offline
member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171
Cary, NC
I'll be driving my TDi Jetta for a very long time, its hard to give up 50mpg. That being said I am a die-hard Subaru fan and if the rumored rwd coupe from them comes out I could be swayed to move on...

Last edited by Storz; 07/09/09 06:01 AM.

Ryan
1983 Isotope
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Storz] #184573
07/09/09 08:19 AM
07/09/09 08:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Last November, when I had to replace my beloved Isuzu Vehicross, I was looking at several options. I was looking at Nissan Xterra, Toyota FJ, and the H3 specifically.

All were competitively priced, with the H3 being slightly more expensive but still well within my budget. The Toyota had the better safety rating, and the best mileage of all of them, plus the "cool" factor.

I ended up going with the FJ over the H3 in the end because of the impending financial difficulties that GM was going through - and a good thing too, since the dealer that I was going to buy from is now boarded up on account of the auto task force nazis.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184575
07/09/09 08:35 AM
07/09/09 08:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by Undecided
I ended up going with the FJ over the H3 in the end because of the impending financial difficulties that GM was going through - and a good thing too, since the dealer that I was going to buy from is now boarded up on account of the auto task force nazis.


The H3 is a dinosaur that deserves to die. The American consumer killed it, not the auto task force.

[Linked Image]

Since one of my Volvos is a 2007(#5) and the other is a 2008(#6), I won't be in the market for another car for at least 8 - 10 years.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: mbounds] #184576
07/09/09 08:38 AM
07/09/09 08:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Since my Tacoma is a '97, I won't be in the market ever.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: mbounds] #184577
07/09/09 08:39 AM
07/09/09 08:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
The H3 is a dinosaur that deserves to die.


Not around here it wasn't anyways.

There were only two on the lot when I was looking at them.

Only one had the options that I wanted. The other one sold in the week that I was making my decisions.

Funny that after the whole $4/gallon fiasco, the plants cranked up making SUV's again - and they reclaimed their top-selling vehicle crown.

The H3 amongst them.

Quote
Since one of my Volvos is a 2007(#5) and the other is a 2008(#6), I won't be in the market for another car for at least 8 - 10 years.


Volvo's are great cars.

My isuzu's lasted 315,000 miles, 225,000 miles and 125,000 miles respectively when I sold them.

The last two are still on the road, well, the second one is an offroad rig right now but still ticking.

The first one, an 89 Trooper had the 2.8L Chevy V6 in it. That damn thing leaked oil but as long as you changed it ever 3,000 miles it was fine. I sold it to my friend's sister for $1200. I knew it was a mistake doing that since she had previously blown up her ford pinto by not putting oil in it. I heard that it died shortly after I sold it to her due to her not putting and effin oil in it.


Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184578
07/09/09 08:43 AM
07/09/09 08:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
You all got it wrong. Too many wheels. That's my ride:

[Linked Image]

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pepin] #184585
07/09/09 09:16 AM
07/09/09 09:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Here are my favorite imports. I took these pictures of all the vintage sports cars that came to Put-in-Bay last week following their racing at the Mid-Ohio track. They had a reunion and race simulation on the old "track" they used to race here on the island during the 1950's.
When you get to my facebook page, click on "Photos" and then click on the "Old Sports Cars" album.

Whoops! Forgot the link to my page: www.facebook.com/maw42

Just click on the first car to make it big, and then keep clicking on each successive frame to make it like a slide show going through all of them big.

They are all SO beautiful, all so different.

Last edited by Mary; 07/09/09 09:23 AM.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184588
07/09/09 09:35 AM
07/09/09 09:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321
Albuquerque NM
Banzilla Offline
enthusiast
Banzilla  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321
Albuquerque NM
There is no option for
"I have been a Ford man all my life and will probably stay that way."

93 F150 long bed Ext Cab, 4x4 170,000 miles and still runs strong.

also ride a 2005 Suzy C90t. Great bike

Sam

Last edited by Banzilla; 07/09/09 09:37 AM.

[b] Sail Like you have a Pair
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184589
07/09/09 09:39 AM
07/09/09 09:39 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Mary
When you get to my facebook page, click on "Photos" and then click on the "Old Sports Cars" album.


Mary, only "friends" can see your page/profile. If you go to the photo album, there is a link at the bottom you can post. we can all view that albums images (as long as it isn't set to private) that way.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Storz] #184590
07/09/09 09:41 AM
07/09/09 09:41 AM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



Isuzu Amigo. My boat and trailer are twice as long as the car. I miss my Chevy Van.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184594
07/09/09 09:48 AM
07/09/09 09:48 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
T
TurboCat Offline
member
TurboCat  Offline
member
T

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Would that be duct-tape?

turbo-cat-
I love Z cars, I had a 76' that I'm still pissed about selling. Look up Darius + 240Z. Its some dude in the bay area that dropped a SC350 into a Z. The thing looks like it F-ing moves. Greddy, HKS, one of those had a pretty reasonable twin turbo kit, not compound, for the 350Z, I think it was less than $5k and 500hp in a mild tune. That's pretty cheap fun too.


Ah yes Darius....His car is now a widebody totally custom monster. Same procharged LT1. The silver car i posted above will give him a run for his money( the turbo can eat small children). It would definetely be a drivers race. My other half just picked up a 2008 350Z convertible out the door TTL and all that good stuff brand spankin new for $32K Its the grand touring model that normally goes for right at $42K. The new 370Z was coming out and they were able to give her a killer deal she couldnt pass up. Unfortunately she thinks its fast enough as is and wants to keep it stock.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: SurfCityRacing] #184596
07/09/09 09:52 AM
07/09/09 09:52 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
T
TurboCat Offline
member
TurboCat  Offline
member
T

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
Originally Posted by SurfCityRacing
As a general rule I don't drive anything with a plastic dash board. grin

[Linked Image]



SWEET!!!!!! Ive always been a huge vw van fan. I have had a few. There's a guy down the street from me that has a split window with a Subaru motor in it. He said it was expensive but totally worth it. His a/c blows ice cold and it gets great gas mileage. There's a company called kennedy engineering that makes the swap kit.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: TurboCat] #184598
07/09/09 10:06 AM
07/09/09 10:06 AM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Turbocat:

Play the video here for the other half. The Nismo 370Z will be bad!!!!!

Nismo 370Z

Doug

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184605
07/09/09 10:25 AM
07/09/09 10:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I second the notion that sleeper cars rule. Tweeked an old 300ZX TT (1996 model year - 3rd generation body?) up to around 400hp but you'd never know by looking at it or the noise it made. Except for the little blowby hiss when you let up the throttle.

I'd love to work on another one or maybe the '97 supra TT

I will give Ford and maybe the other american manufacturers some credit for closing the quality gap, but the designs are still outdated and inefficient. Viper excluded of course (great style, poor quality and practicality).

They should hire someone from Lotus to design their cars. I mean, jeeze, why can't we design stuff like THIS

And don't most engineers (foreign and domestic) all go to the same engineering schools? Why can the foreign engineers outperform domestic engineers when working out these cars?

My old Chevette had an engine with the front half standard bolt fittings and the back 1/2 was metric... Wha?


Jay

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184607
07/09/09 10:34 AM
07/09/09 10:34 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
My old Chevette had an engine with the front half standard bolt fittings and the back 1/2 was metric... Wha?


They must have "contracted out" the back 1/2 to Europe.

I had a ford ranger that was a 4 cylinder with 8 spark plugs.
Ends up it was the Pinto engine and the only way to get it to pass CA emissions was to add another spark plug. Sure was a tight fit under the hood and almost IMPOSSIBLE to change out all the plugs..

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ] #184609
07/09/09 10:41 AM
07/09/09 10:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
Mary, only "friends" can see your page/profile. If you go to the photo album, there is a link at the bottom you can post. we can all view that albums images (as long as it isn't set to private) that way.


Okay, so does this do it?
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2011531&id=1258027372&l=5aaab04451

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184610
07/09/09 10:45 AM
07/09/09 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Mary


I want that one... and that one.... and that one...


Jay

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184611
07/09/09 10:45 AM
07/09/09 10:45 AM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Mary:

Sweet cars. I drove one of the old MG's with right hand drive. Was a bitch passing cars. Hard to see around.

Doug

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184614
07/09/09 10:57 AM
07/09/09 10:57 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Mary
Okay, so does this do it?


yes, thank you.

WOW!!!! Sweet

But who the heck puts a nfl sticker on a classic car?

[Linked Image]

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ] #184625
07/09/09 12:52 PM
07/09/09 12:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
old hand
H17cat  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
Current rides, 1997 Mountaineer for pulling boats, and regatta sleeper, 2006 Honda Accord, family car, 1992 Corvette for fun.
And locally, car shows most weekends http://www.triplexrootbeer.com/

Caleb

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: H17cat] #184628
07/09/09 01:11 PM
07/09/09 01:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
A big ole Ford E350 diesel van for pulling the toys. And the '93 300zx TT for in between regattas. It's stock on the outside, and plenty of mods under the hood.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by mikekrantz; 07/09/09 01:12 PM.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184629
07/09/09 01:23 PM
07/09/09 01:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I will give Ford and maybe the other american manufacturers some credit for closing the quality gap, but the designs are still outdated and inefficient.


Really?
[Linked Image]


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ] #184630
07/09/09 01:25 PM
07/09/09 01:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by andrewscott
But who the heck puts a nfl sticker on a classic car?

[Linked Image]

It's a back up for the paper thin bumper.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: hobie1616] #184632
07/09/09 02:00 PM
07/09/09 02:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Whoknows why a GT40 is called a "40"?














Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184634
07/09/09 02:08 PM
07/09/09 02:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402
Punta Gorda, FL
J
jkkartz1 Offline
addict
jkkartz1  Offline
addict
J

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402
Punta Gorda, FL
The original was 40 inches high.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ] #184636
07/09/09 02:22 PM
07/09/09 02:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
jes9613 Offline
journeyman
jes9613  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
Mary,

I love the old "T" series MG's as well. Great cars as long as you don't want to stop quick.
An OLD British sports car joke.... Why don't the Brits make computers?...because they couldn't figure out a way to make them leak oil! At least that was true for my Dad's '53 MG TD.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: jes9613] #184637
07/09/09 02:33 PM
07/09/09 02:33 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
T
TurboCat Offline
member
TurboCat  Offline
member
T

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 149
"I will give Ford and maybe the other american manufacturers some credit for closing the quality gap, but the designs are still outdated and inefficient."

I will have to agree and disagree. Take a Zo6 vette and a shelby gt500. Both motors have 500+ HP and seemed to have been touched by the hand of god. These motors can handle huge amounts of power and still get very good gas mileage. Did u know if u port the blower on one of the new gt500's you can gain over 100rwhp. I recently saw a bone stock vette motor that had two large frame turbos strapped on it and made 690rwhp and has lasted for 20K miles and still running strong.

The american performance cars have come a long way in a short time and are making great power while maintaining decent MPG when cruising around. I recently drove a Z06 that had 500+ hp and still got 26-28mpg on the highway. That is the best of both worlds.

The interiors on the other hand.....still plain and somewhat boring....But when your smashing on the "Loud pedal" who is thinking about the interior?

SWEET Z32 MikeKrantz!!! Thats a really clean Z. I will have another Z32 one day.

Last edited by TurboCat; 07/09/09 02:35 PM.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: jkkartz1] #184638
07/09/09 02:33 PM
07/09/09 02:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Yup.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184642
07/09/09 02:40 PM
07/09/09 02:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Anyone notice the concept Corvette in the new Transformers movie? SLICK

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: hobie1616] #184643
07/09/09 02:59 PM
07/09/09 02:59 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I will give Ford and maybe the other american manufacturers some credit for closing the quality gap, but the designs are still outdated and inefficient.


Really?
[Linked Image]


I agree!!! Hope this will save GM.


Doug

Attached Files
m_2010.jpg (170 downloads)
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184647
07/09/09 03:30 PM
07/09/09 03:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
krona Offline
journeyman
krona  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
I'll be buying import until Ford decides to bring the Mondeo over. If Ford had the diesel Mondeo Wagon TDCi here in the US I'd be an owner.


Attached Files
Ford-Mondeo-a-lg.jpg (161 downloads)
newmondeo_hi_03.jpg (158 downloads)

NACRA 570 #90308
Hobie 16 #68973
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: krona] #184649
07/09/09 03:35 PM
07/09/09 03:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
krona Offline
journeyman
krona  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
The Mondeo 4-door Sedan and 5-door Coupe are good lookers too, but I'd like the wagon.

Attached Files
4dr_pop-up.jpg (190 downloads)
5dr_pop-up.jpg (189 downloads)

NACRA 570 #90308
Hobie 16 #68973
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: krona] #184650
07/09/09 03:42 PM
07/09/09 03:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Pete, is that the Ford GT 40 in the photo? Isn't that like $120,000?

The lotus elise is $40,000 base (used SC for $35,000). That's downright reasonable for what equates to a street legal racing car (no frills adding weight, very stiff ride, hard to get in/out - same as GT 40 at 1/3 the price)


Jay

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184652
07/09/09 03:55 PM
07/09/09 03:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Pete, is that the Ford GT 40 in the photo? Isn't that like $120,000?

It's the Fort GT. They had to drop the 40 because someone owned it.

Try north of $150,000. http://motors.shop.ebay.com/items/C...+GT&_sacat=6001&_sop=&_rdc=1


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184657
07/09/09 04:08 PM
07/09/09 04:08 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Pete, is that the Ford GT 40 in the photo? Isn't that like $120,000?

The lotus elise is $40,000 base (used SC for $35,000). That's downright reasonable for what equates to a street legal racing car (no frills adding weight, very stiff ride, hard to get in/out - same as GT 40 at 1/3 the price)


The Elise was on Supercars up and down Mulholland Drive against a Ferrari 430 and a Porsche Turbo. It beats both of them. Good bang for the buck, if you can go spartan interior and rough ride.

Doug

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184659
07/09/09 04:17 PM
07/09/09 04:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Mondeo? Is that the car the Bond was driving in the Bahama's in Casino Royal? Very nice looking sedan.

I'm not a brand loyal type. I've owned a couple of Fords, a few Mopars, a Renault, a Datsun, and a couple of Chev's. Being that only GM, Chrysler, and Ford are the only auto makers to offer a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup, (or van for that matter), imports aren't an option. I can't afford a Freightliner pickup either. Being that GM & Chrysler have been nationalized I will not be knowingly spending my money to support anything of that nature. I am somewhat surprised at the results of the poll so far.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184663
07/09/09 04:32 PM
07/09/09 04:32 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Is that the car the Bond was driving in the Bahama's in Casino Royal? Very nice looking sedan.

Karl:

Bond car was an Aston Martin. About $175,000 or so. Nice but out of my price range!!

Doug

Attached Files
m_060504001.jpg (161 downloads)
Last edited by DougSnell; 07/09/09 04:33 PM.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ] #184664
07/09/09 04:37 PM
07/09/09 04:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
No, not either of the Aston Martins. When he first gets to the Bahamas he's driving a black Ford Sedan that I didn't recognize.


I'm boatless.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184666
07/09/09 05:04 PM
07/09/09 05:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Being that only GM, Chrysler, and Ford are the only auto makers to offer a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup, (or van for that matter), imports aren't an option.


Will be intersting to see if Toyota makes good on the 3/4 and 1-ton TD trucks they've been talking about.

I think the TD F150 is an idea that is WAY over due.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Will_R] #184670
07/09/09 05:15 PM
07/09/09 05:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
All of the diesel 1/2 tons have been canned again. Don't know why. With Ford it could be the falling out with Navistar.

Japan couldn't import 1/2 tons until I think 94' or 95', they were regulated on what they could import, and those regulations were loosened up. That's why they also don't import any larger SUV type vehicles.

I won't buy another gas pickup, and it'll be a few years before they can get diesels figured out again. With all of the pollution systems the mileage sucks, and the reliability isn't any good either. If you're ok with potentially paying a $10,000 fine if you get caught for removing it all there's always that option. If the price of diesel goes back up to $5/gal then it'd pay out pretty easily. Being most of the new diesel pickups are getting almost 25% less mileage than the models they were selling in 2006.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184672
07/09/09 06:16 PM
07/09/09 06:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
krona Offline
journeyman
krona  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Mondeo? Is that the car the Bond was driving in the Bahama's in Casino Royal? Very nice looking sedan.


Yes it was, good memory smile


NACRA 570 #90308
Hobie 16 #68973
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184673
07/09/09 06:27 PM
07/09/09 06:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
All of the diesel 1/2 tons have been canned again. Don't know why. With Ford it could be the falling out with Navistar.

Japan couldn't import 1/2 tons until I think 94' or 95', they were regulated on what they could import, and those regulations were loosened up. That's why they also don't import any larger SUV type vehicles.

I won't buy another gas pickup, and it'll be a few years before they can get diesels figured out again. With all of the pollution systems the mileage sucks, and the reliability isn't any good either. If you're ok with potentially paying a $10,000 fine if you get caught for removing it all there's always that option. If the price of diesel goes back up to $5/gal then it'd pay out pretty easily. Being most of the new diesel pickups are getting almost 25% less mileage than the models they were selling in 2006.


That's actually why I bought an older truck than I wanted ('01 7.3 PSD). 600+ ft-lbs of torque and ~20 mpg unloaded at 65mph.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: krona] #184674
07/09/09 06:31 PM
07/09/09 06:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
krona Offline
journeyman
krona  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
I don't understand why Ford don't bring the Euro cars over here.... I mean even the Focus looks cool over there (see bellow). And what's up with not bringing the Turbo Diesel engines over... The Mondeo often goes up against the BMW 5 series and Audi A6, often as the slightly cheaper alternative but commonly considered "almost as good" The Diesel Mondeo is a big car and gets about 50 MPG. Even with higher diesel cost it still makes up for it, and you'd get some tax credits as well.


Attached Files
lrggal_LC_13473.jpg (198 downloads)

NACRA 570 #90308
Hobie 16 #68973
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: krona] #184692
07/09/09 08:35 PM
07/09/09 08:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
In Minnesota you pay twice as much tax on diesel as gasoline, so I'm not sure what kind of tax credit makes up for that. Also most of the Euro diesels can't meet our emissions laws. That's why the VW TDI's weren't available for a year or two. VW needed to get their stuff together. Catapillar got out or will be getting out of the semi engine business all together. Not worth the hassle of trying to meet emission laws.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184751
07/10/09 09:17 AM
07/10/09 09:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
krona Offline
journeyman
krona  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Charleston, SC, USA
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
In Minnesota you pay twice as much tax on diesel as gasoline, so I'm not sure what kind of tax credit makes up for that. Also most of the Euro diesels can't meet our emissions laws. That's why the VW TDI's weren't available for a year or two. VW needed to get their stuff together. Catapillar got out or will be getting out of the semi engine business all together. Not worth the hassle of trying to meet emission laws.


For a long time one major difference was the Diesel it self available over in Europe, now with the low sulfur diesel available here as well, the VW TDI is back and the market is opening back up.

TAX Credits for Diesels




NACRA 570 #90308
Hobie 16 #68973
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: krona] #184752
07/10/09 09:22 AM
07/10/09 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
There must be some emission and/or safety regulations in USA that make domestic cars look so bad,..... right?

We're bad drivers here. we need survivability in our vehicles. A Smartcar vs. a Ford Excursion or Suburban isn't a pretty thought.

So you have to make the smartcar invincible somehow, which adds about 2 tons of weight.

Now you've got to beef up the engine which kills the mpg.

And you need more cupholders & dvd players so we can focus less on the drive and more on our personal lives.

And get in more wrecks, so we need more safety devices to make up for our poor driving skills.

So we need MORE invincibility which adds more weight


I see a viscious cycle here.


Jay

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184754
07/10/09 09:28 AM
07/10/09 09:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 263
SC
zander Offline
enthusiast
zander  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 263
SC
Quote from above "And you need more cupholders & dvd players so we can focus less on the drive and more on our personal lives."


Sorry, could you repeat that?

I was driving, reading my email, texting, and watching x-men. I'd ask Wendy what you said but she is chaning the baby and putting on makeup in the visor mirror. HA!

Last edited by zander; 07/10/09 09:30 AM.

Always borrow money from a pessimist. He won't expect it back.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184755
07/10/09 09:31 AM
07/10/09 09:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
How about. . . oh I don't know. . . confused TAKE THE EXCURSION AND OTHER ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS OFF THE ROAD! Public highways are for transportation not intimidation and mayhem.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184758
07/10/09 09:42 AM
07/10/09 09:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
TAKE THE EXCURSION AND OTHER ARMORED PERSONNEL CARRIERS OFF THE ROAD!


You'll have to pry my SUV's out of my cold, dead hands you ****ing communist.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184764
07/10/09 10:38 AM
07/10/09 10:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
That can be arranged. You ****ing elitest pig.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184767
07/10/09 10:44 AM
07/10/09 10:44 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Wow... it's getting kinda rough in hear... i am glad i am commie or elitist and just narcissistic!

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ] #184781
07/10/09 11:37 AM
07/10/09 11:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
I'm the elitist?!

Wow reality does indeed escape you doesn't it Pete?

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184782
07/10/09 11:41 AM
07/10/09 11:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
No,Tad, reality doesn't escape me. I'm not a communist, but I do speak to others the way they speak to me.

The logic to removing SUVs from the road is that they are a danger to others. Simple physics.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184786
07/10/09 11:53 AM
07/10/09 11:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
The logic to removing SUVs from the road is that they are a danger to others. Simple physics.


The removal of freedom is a danger to everyone. Simple Liberty.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184787
07/10/09 11:58 AM
07/10/09 11:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Liberty is not license. You can't yell "fire!" in a movie theatre. You have no inherent right to put my life and liberty at risk.

My right to life and liberty are superior to your driving privilege.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184789
07/10/09 12:12 PM
07/10/09 12:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
And yet you can prove no directly correlation that any particular person driving an SUV is an imminent danger to your life.

If that was the case, every single hardware store would have to license a wood axe, chainsaw, or any other implement that could possibly be accidentally an implement of death.

Quite a slippery slope there Pete. You know that F16 could kill you if you flip over, hit your head and drown. I'm calling my Congressman and telling him that F16's are putting people's "lives and liberties at risk".

After all, your right to life and liberty are superior to your sailing privilege right?

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184790
07/10/09 12:12 PM
07/10/09 12:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
jes9613 Offline
journeyman
jes9613  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
I love my Suburban. What other vehicle out there can take my family of six camping, with all of the gear?

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: jes9613] #184791
07/10/09 12:16 PM
07/10/09 12:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by jes9613
I love my Suburban. What other vehicle out there can take my family of six camping, with all of the gear?

[Linked Image]


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184792
07/10/09 12:18 PM
07/10/09 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Some rights are self evident. I can't prove a pig farm is an eye sore or health hazard, yet most municipalities would prevent building one in a residential neighborhood.

But, since you are so zealous a supporter of liberty, no doubt you would welcome a pig farm next door. How about a chemical plant, propane storage, or insecticide factory?

Last edited by pgp; 07/10/09 12:21 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: jes9613] #184794
07/10/09 12:20 PM
07/10/09 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Originally Posted by jes9613
I love my Suburban. What other vehicle out there can take my family of six camping, with all of the gear?


A family of six is a different matter than one person, hoping into the SUV, and running down to 7-11 for a Twinkie.

Last edited by pgp; 07/10/09 12:22 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184796
07/10/09 12:26 PM
07/10/09 12:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
no doubt you would welcome a pig farm next door. How about a chemical plant, propane storage, or insecticide factory?


I arguably have worse - a race track. Every spring and fall - it opens up so loud that it sounds like they're racing on my street.

But you know what, it has a right to be there - according to the laws that were passed by the people that live here. I'm part of a group that is trying to get an ordinance passed that will erect a soundproof wall around the back stretch so when the LeMans cars are wide open, it doesn't sound like talledega in my house (Sorry Jack!). It also brings much needed revenue to my town and county so its a great benefit to the community so I'm not going to be a ****ing "elitist" **** that demands its closure. (There are people around here that want that believe it or not!)

So while you may try try to insult my values, I actually live by them Pete. YOu'd better find a better target to argue against because right now I'm beating my T-ball batting average.

Furthermore, while the SUV might endanger YOU if I smash into you on the road, its protecting ME more than a car of a smaller size!

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184797
07/10/09 12:29 PM
07/10/09 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
"Furthermore, while the SUV might endanger YOU if I smash into you on the road,. . ." I couldn't say it any better.

" its protecting ME more than a car of a smaller size!" And reducing your need to drive safely. SUVs promote unsafe driving practices and you drive a lot! "My isuzu's lasted 315,000 miles, 225,000 miles and 125,000 miles respectively when I sold them."

You're a mence to society whose concept of safety comes down to one word, "ME ".



Last edited by pgp; 07/10/09 12:34 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184798
07/10/09 12:39 PM
07/10/09 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
You're a mence to society whose concept of safety comes down to one word, "ME ".


Your entire idea rests upon the assumption that I am an unsafe driver, and in the same breath, generalizing and stereotyping all SUV owners as unsafe drivers.

I thought Stereotyping was one of the 10 deadly sins of leftist communists Pete.

And while I certainly care about the man next to me, I'm not going to spare any expense to ensure the safety of ME and my family.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184799
07/10/09 12:39 PM
07/10/09 12:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
I'm almost out of popcorn, can you guys take 5 while I go make some more? grin


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ksurfer2] #184800
07/10/09 12:40 PM
07/10/09 12:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
I'm almost out of popcorn, can you guys take 5 while I go make some more?


Only if you bring me a beer when you come back smile

I've got to drop off anyways... I've got to get off this teleconference that I'm on and actually go do work that will improve the lives of people with cancer.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184801
07/10/09 12:42 PM
07/10/09 12:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
" . . .I am an unsafe driver,. . ."

Pretty safe bet. Killed anyone...yet?

Karl, make a small batch. It's almost time for me to go to the gym.

Last edited by pgp; 07/10/09 12:48 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184802
07/10/09 12:43 PM
07/10/09 12:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 101
chesapeake bay
davidn Offline
member
davidn  Offline
member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 101
chesapeake bay
I'm sure you're both nice guys, but SHUT THE [censored] UP! We don't have to turn every discussion into a left/right, liberal/conservative face off. Gheez; I thought you guys were just trading SA type, friendly insults.

BTW, I drive a Ford E150 van; have owned 4, all the but last one used. They work great for taking lots of gear and a family off on a vacation. They work great for loading sailing gear, just don't leave wet, salty gear in overnight...what a stink. I'd like to get a smaller car to drive to work, but when I compare the investment against gas money saved, I just don't get a good trade off. When money gets less tight, I might buy a cheaper car to go to work, but I'll have to keep the van for sailing.

David
A Cat and big cat

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: davidn] #184803
07/10/09 12:45 PM
07/10/09 12:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
So how's the big boat doin'? Didn't you pick that up down here?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184805
07/10/09 12:52 PM
07/10/09 12:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 531
Lake Murray SC
FasterDamnit Offline
addict
FasterDamnit  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 531
Lake Murray SC
I will probably run the 347 in my '65 Mustang on E85. Very loud, high powered and environmentally friendly. Does that make me a con or lib?? I am so conflicted...


Race cheap, race faster, Damnit!

E-Scow
24' ULDB

18HT hulls plus Gcat 5.7 rig = 18GT!
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184806
07/10/09 12:59 PM
07/10/09 12:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 110
Northern California, USA
RyanMcHale Offline
member
RyanMcHale  Offline
member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 110
Northern California, USA
Mary, I want the Austin Heally 3000, the Jag XK-120, or the Datsun, then again, I wish I'd never sold the 'Early' (1957) Triumph TR-3 I had as a teenager!!!


Ryan McHale
Hobie 14 (battened jib)
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184807
07/10/09 12:59 PM
07/10/09 12:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 101
chesapeake bay
davidn Offline
member
davidn  Offline
member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 101
chesapeake bay
I did, Pete; you and I also met on that TRT owned by Ned Christensen. Did you know he sailed that boat from Bulgaria to Florida? What a trip that must have been.

My TRT has been doing well in the Chesapeake except that we broke our dagger boards last summer and again this summer. This time I'm having Phil's Foils in Canada build proper new ones. I sent Phil a cross section of one of the remains and his comment was that they were a piece of crap. If you ever get up to the bay, get in touch with me and we'll try to go out on the boat. Doug Kirby also has a TRT in the Chesapeake, so we have 40% of the total US fleet here in the bay. grin

David
A Cat and big cat

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: ] #184823
07/10/09 02:31 PM
07/10/09 02:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Originally Posted by andrewscott
Wow... it's getting kinda rough in hear... i am glad i am commie or elitist and just narcissistic!

Did you mean NOT commie or elitist? What a difference a "not" makes.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: davidn] #184824
07/10/09 02:39 PM
07/10/09 02:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
What a great boat! I might take you up on it if I get up that way.

Any pix?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: RyanMcHale] #184826
07/10/09 02:42 PM
07/10/09 02:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Originally Posted by RyanMcHale
Mary, I want the Austin Heally 3000, the Jag XK-120, or the Datsun, then again, I wish I'd never sold the 'Early' (1957) Triumph TR-3 I had as a teenager!!!

I know what you mean. My first car was a new MGA, and I traded that in three years later for an MGB, and now I wish I still had both of them. Hindsight.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184827
07/10/09 02:43 PM
07/10/09 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
I can't help myself, I measure ALL cars against the '65 MGB. What a great ride.

Last edited by pgp; 07/10/09 02:44 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184828
07/10/09 02:44 PM
07/10/09 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Originally Posted by Mary
Originally Posted by RyanMcHale
Mary, I want the Austin Heally 3000, the Jag XK-120, or the Datsun, then again, I wish I'd never sold the 'Early' (1957) Triumph TR-3 I had as a teenager!!!

I know what you mean. My first car was a new MGA, and I traded that in three years later for an MGB, and now I wish I still had both of them. Hindsight.


Mary, no wonder Rick wanted to date you! I can only guess what kind of car he was driving back then...or was he walking!


Blade F16
#777
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Timbo] #184831
07/10/09 02:48 PM
07/10/09 02:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
veteran
F-18 5150  Offline
veteran

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
She was leaning on his truck and he thought wow she's cute.................................... yada yada, yada now we're all here.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Timbo] #184833
07/10/09 03:18 PM
07/10/09 03:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
[quote]Mary, no wonder Rick wanted to date you! I can only guess what kind of car he was driving back then...or was he walking!

No, back then he was driving a Cadillac and had an airplane. I didn't really get to know him until he quit the "good life" and became a hippie. I saw potential, though, and have spent the last 30 years trying to renovate him and make him a conservative. Here is the result of my efforts:

Attached Files
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: F-18 5150] #184834
07/10/09 03:20 PM
07/10/09 03:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I would presume we all have a "right" to do what we want, until it infringes on someone else's "right"... right?

So who's "right" is more "right"?

How about left-handers?


Jay

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Mary] #184839
07/10/09 03:32 PM
07/10/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Originally Posted by Mary
Quote
[quote]Mary, no wonder Rick wanted to date you! I can only guess what kind of car he was driving back then...or was he walking!

No, back then he was driving a Cadillac and had an airplane. I didn't really get to know him until he quit the "good life" and became a hippie. I saw potential, though, and have spent the last 30 years trying to renovate him and make him a conservative. Here is the result of my efforts:



Wow, beautiful car Mary, you sure had your work cut out for you though! A friend of mine from High School (Russel P. Merril the 3rd) restored a similar car. I think his was a 1926 Model A (or is it a T?) "roadster", a two seater, it looked just like that one, with the hand crank start (my job), gas lever and spark advance lever on the steering column, 3 pedals on the floor for 1st gear(down) and 2nd(up), Reverse and brakes. His had the wooden spoke wheels though.

After we graduated HS, we took a week's vacation and drove it from Hampton Falls, NH, up old route 1, all the way to Bahh Hahbahh, or for the rest of you, Bar Harbor.

You should have seen all the traffic stacked up behind us as we tried to make it up some of those hills...at about 20mph! Not Happy! But we had a great trip, camped out most of the time, and the old thing never broke down! His dad was into restoring old Model A's and T's, their family had about 3-4 of them and always drove them in the parades. Great fun!


Blade F16
#777
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184841
07/10/09 03:41 PM
07/10/09 03:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I would presume we all have a "right" to do what we want, until it infringes on someone else's "right"... right?

So who's "right" is more "right"?

How about left-handers?


Don't confuse rights with privileges. You only have those rights you can defend.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: waterbug_wpb] #184846
07/10/09 04:34 PM
07/10/09 04:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I would presume we all have a "right" to do what we want, until it infringes on someone else's "right"... right?

So who's "right" is more "right"?

How about left-handers?

Does that have anything to do with the stripper trying to get into church?


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: hobie1616] #184861
07/10/09 07:56 PM
07/10/09 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
"There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning..."

;^)


Blade F16
#777
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Storz] #184862
07/10/09 07:58 PM
07/10/09 07:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
I love my Ram. Next car, AC Cobra (kit) maxed out small block. Probably blown.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Timbo] #184865
07/10/09 08:40 PM
07/10/09 08:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by Timbo
"There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning..."

;^)

About six hours and some Gatorade to rehydrate.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: hobie1616] #184915
07/11/09 09:07 PM
07/11/09 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Brian_Mc Offline
old hand
Brian_Mc  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
I am a big fan of the TR3, the MGA, And Austin Healey 3000 for their looks. I drove an MGA a few years ago, and preffered my VW GTi, and my Civic Si. Second car was a '67 Datsun 1600 Roadster. I have often wished I kept it.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: pgp] #184940
07/12/09 07:29 PM
07/12/09 07:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by pgp
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I would presume we all have a "right" to do what we want, until it infringes on someone else's "right"... right?

So who's "right" is more "right"?

How about left-handers?


Don't confuse rights with privileges. You only have those rights you can defend.


Not true. The only rights you have are the ones that are either given to you, or those that you take.

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184947
07/12/09 10:38 PM
07/12/09 10:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
addict
HMurphey  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
I used to be a Chevy fan .... but after replacing: transmitions ... motors ... rear axles ... front axles ... water pumps ... intake manifolds .... brake calibers ... on my last two Chevy trucks I'm now a Ford F150 4X4 believer. There is a reason why GM will not survive ... it's called "Piss Poor Quality" .... my mothers Impala has had to have the brake rotors replaced twice!!!! It's a 2004 and has only 35K on it. And my mother has never before had to have brake rotors replaced .... the metal quality is JUNK!!! The cost accountants were making the decisions, not the engineers while paying the exec's BIG $$$$$'s.

For fun I have a 91'SAAB 900 Convertable Turbo, Black w/ Tan Leather interior .... fun ride and it hasn't cost me much to maintain.

If I could have a collection: 71'Datsun 240Z, Austin Healey 100 or 3000, AC Cobra (origonal), 67'Mustang Fastback, Sunbeam "Tiger", 68'Jag E-Type .... I'll think of some others but that is a start .....

The best MGB was a 68' ... port and polish the head, throw the "SU" carb's away and install two Weber 2-barrel side draft carbs .... oh ya ....

Harry

Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: HMurphey] #184948
07/13/09 12:28 AM
07/13/09 12:28 AM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



And Fords are tough. I doubt the other makes could take a 18 wheeler hit like this and still run and drive. I did not get a scratch on me. Although God had to do with that.

Doug

Attached Files
m_IMG_8314.jpg (161 downloads)
Last edited by DougSnell; 07/13/09 12:32 AM.
Re: GM vs. Ford vs. Chrysler vs. Imports [Re: HMurphey] #184955
07/13/09 06:47 AM
07/13/09 06:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Originally Posted by HMurphey
I used to be a Chevy fan .... but after replacing: transmitions ... motors ... rear axles ... front axles ... water pumps ... intake manifolds .... brake my mothers Impala has had to have the brake rotors replaced twice!!!! It's a 2004 and has only 35K on it. And my mother has never before had to have brake rotors replaced .... the metal quality is JUNK!!! The cost accountants were making the decisions, not the engineers while paying the exec's BIG $$$$$'s.


Of course, bad braking habits couldn't be the problem...


Trey
This is what I drive currently [Re: hobie1616] #184957
07/13/09 07:37 AM
07/13/09 07:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
I give you the Optima Dingo recumbent bike; it is now fitted with 4.99 buck carrier side bags (they take 52 liters of goods mind you). And I've done 60 km trips with 16 kg of goods locked away in these bags.

It runs on water and does about 100 km per liter (235 mpg). The only real drawback of this model is that the air-co is shut off each time that you stop. Top speed is only modest however; it peaks out at 45 km/h (30 mph). It corners like a jet fighter however.


Attached Files
Last edited by Wouter; 07/13/09 07:48 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #184959
07/13/09 07:54 AM
07/13/09 07:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
And Fords are tough. I doubt the other makes could take a 18 wheeler hit like this and still run and drive. I did not get a scratch on me. Although God had to do with that.


Thats impressive Doug.

I had a buddy in HS that had a 4-cylinder 87 trooper that was the same body style as mine.

He was driving back from taking his last AP exam from school, to his parents place, and fell asleep at the wheel while doing 70 on I85 in Charlotte NC.

He crossed the grass median, can clipped the rear tires of an 18 wheeler tanker trailer, spun around, and got t-boned by another truck.

He was dazed and confused, the trooper was totaled, but he was in school the next day, with just a scrape on his knuckle.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #184965
07/13/09 08:10 AM
07/13/09 08:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

As soon as the economy pulls together a bit and I have some spare cash I'm thinking about electrifying it with a kit from V-fiets.com


http://www.v-fiets.com/uk/


They have a 35 km/h version of the V-mini motor (180 Watt by 2.5 kg) and a li-ion battery (36v/9Ah by 2.4 kg).

So the complete package is under 5 kg where my Dingo is 18 kg ready to go (with mud guards and all).

Should make for a very nice hybrid vehicle. Even when peddle in a very relaxed way in order to not sweat I can then still do 35 km/h over 50 km with that upgrade. This range can be much extended if I peddling harder myself.

At 0.24 per kWh recharge cost (including all costs like taxes etc); it'll come out at 0.10 per recharge or at least 0.002 Euro per km. Compare that to about 0.08 Euro per km that a European fuel efficient car gets. (a factor 40 difference)

Wouter




Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #184968
07/13/09 08:29 AM
07/13/09 08:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Wouter, are you married, or at least already dating someone?

Because you'll never get laid driving that around :P

</tongueincheek>

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #184971
07/13/09 08:49 AM
07/13/09 08:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
HMurphey Offline
addict
HMurphey  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay
Trey,

"Bad Braking Habits couldn't be the problem ????"


NO!!!!!! That's why I mentioned that "Mom" never had to replace rotors before. She got her driver's license in 45-46'. Owned Gm products her whole life, Chevies, Pontiacs, Oldsmobles and now a Chevy Impala. Now she has slowed down a little but her driving technic hasn't changed ... one foot for both the accelerator and brake. I remember the 63'Pontiac Station Wagon, drove the 70' olds Vista Criuser Station Wagon, the 77'Pontiac Lemans, the 86'Olds Cutlass Coupe, 98'Chevy Impala and none of these cars had their brake rotors replaced before 100k .... so what changed???? Same driver .... new car .....

Then there's my experience ... the crankshaft broke (in two) between the 4th and 5th cylinder of my 86'S-15 4x4 while driving down the road at 40MPH w/ 105K on the odometer. Since when do crankshaft's snap ???? GM's responce .... tough luck, can we sell you a new truck???? It turns out they had sourced the cranks and cams from Mexico or Brazil and the metal quality was poor and the crank was undersized. How do I know this .... I installed a new "crate" motor and the crank was beefed up significately .... Hmmmmmmmm It turns out that GM installed a car motor in the S15 trucks ... I bought/payed for a GMC truck, not a CAR!!!!!!

Now my friends always drove Ford Trucks .... 200k ... no problems ... no waterpumps, no rotors, no motors, ........

So for a trucks, buy a Ford .... for Cars, buy a Honda, Toyota, a Mazda, or a Subaru .....

Harry

Last edited by HMurphey; 07/13/09 08:58 AM.
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: HMurphey] #184972
07/13/09 08:59 AM
07/13/09 08:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Trey's bad braking habits caused his front door lock on his brand new Tahoe to break too :P

Thats how he knows these things smile

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184973
07/13/09 09:08 AM
07/13/09 09:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Remember this Top Gear test about how they couldnt destroy a Toyota truck?

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #184976
07/13/09 09:34 AM
07/13/09 09:34 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Wouter
I give you the Optima Dingo recumbent bike; it is now fitted with 4.99 buck carrier side bags (they take 52 liters of goods mind you). And I've done 60 km trips with 16 kg of goods locked away in these bags.


There is a jerk who drives one of these down a busy county road every day when i go to work. He has a sign "keep your exhaust out of my face" on it (like we have any control where our exhaust pipe is) and last week he picked up a piece of trash (a 2x4) and threw it into traffic cause it was in the bike lane. I honked at him (as it almost hit my car) and kind of hoped it would scare him so much he fell off.

2 weeks ago i was making a right hand turn and almost hit him as he flew through the corner.... (and kind of hoped it would scare him so much he fell off.)....

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #184977
07/13/09 09:38 AM
07/13/09 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
I know its hard to prove, but its possible to get him in a fair amount of trouble for throwing an obstacle in the road.

The guy sounds like a meanie greenie... its fun to irritate them.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184992
07/13/09 10:50 AM
07/13/09 10:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by Undecided
I know its hard to prove, but its possible to get him in a fair amount of trouble for throwing an obstacle in the road.

The guy sounds like a meanie greenie... its fun to irritate them.


I live near two semi expensive liberal arts colleges, you can imagine the type of person that attends a school that cost $60k a year, and they get a degree in womens studies. We get an butt load of bicyclist out in the country on narrow paved roads with zero shoulder. I think I've actually managed to cut down on their traveling out of town in my direction. With everything cranked up in the diesel I can black out two lanes pretty easily. I don't think they care for me too much.

They don't realize that when forced to make the choice of greasing a bicyclist, or hitting a loaded milk truck head on, I'm gonna plow through the bicylists and save my own butt.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184994
07/13/09 11:12 AM
07/13/09 11:12 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Undecided
I know its hard to prove, but its possible to get him in a fair amount of trouble for throwing an obstacle in the road.
The guy sounds like a meanie greenie... its fun to irritate them.


I considered calling the police on him... but as you said, i couldn't prove it.. and i was rushing to get to work ontime...

I understand (and even appreciate) the fact he wants to bike to work... its good on the gas bills and good exercise, but to have to drive down a 4 lane country road, and expect people to "get their exhaust out of his face" is rediculious... Also, i really don't expect him to be accident free for long... as his "I am a bike, get outta my way" attitude wont last...

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Karl_Brogger] #184995
07/13/09 11:19 AM
07/13/09 11:19 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Wouter,

those things take corners like jet fighters, if you have the balls and skills for it smile

This is my ride on the road. Electric kit would be nice if I was going to commute with it (30km one way, hilly..)
[Linked Image]

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #184998
07/13/09 12:33 PM
07/13/09 12:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Your recumbents look pretty neat. Here's my ride.

[Linked Image]


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #184999
07/13/09 12:36 PM
07/13/09 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Originally Posted by Undecided
Trey's bad braking habits caused his front door lock on his brand new Tahoe to break too :P

Thats how he knows these things smile


Actually, McTadicles, it was someone breaking into my car. Now go back to programming and get off CS!


Trey
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Karl_Brogger] #185002
07/13/09 12:39 PM
07/13/09 12:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


And that is why I appreciate so much NOT being an American.

I heard these stories before from Tim Bohan. How they average yank doesn't know the difference between real life and grant theft auto or whatever !

Overhere, we have lot of special bike lanes and NO speed limit for human powered bicyles ! So doing 45 in a 30 zone is basically allowed when you are on a peddle bike. And what is best; everytime a biker and car are in a collision together then it is the car driver who is considered guilty by law BY DEFINITION !

Makes getting you car license a little bit harder though when you can't get one by not knocking over 3 pilons on some parking lot as the US seems to handle car license exams. Note, I have one of those EU car drivers license as well and I'm not complaining about the skill level required to get one. As far as I'm concerned, a car is a deadly wapon in the hands of a moron or a$$hole. I don't mind withholding a gun license from these fools as well.


Quote

They don't realize that when forced to make the choice of greasing a bicyclist, or hitting a loaded milk truck head on, I'm gonna plow through the bicylists and save my own butt.


Personally, when faced with such a situation when driving a car; I apply the breaks ! grin

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185004
07/13/09 12:43 PM
07/13/09 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
I heard these stories before from Tim Bohan. How they average yank doesn't know the difference between real life and grant theft auto or whatever !


I think you lost the sense of humor in all these posts.

Would we like to run over cyclists that are doing 15mph on a 55mph highway?

Sure we do.

But we don't, not just because its the law that we can't, but because its not something that human beings do to one another.

We joke about it because morbid humor is funny - and we've all been "that guy" behind the 'Critical Mass' groups that just needs to get to work on time.

Quote
Actually, McTadicles, it was someone breaking into my car. Now go back to programming and get off CS!


Oh yeah forgot about that.

Last edited by Undecided; 07/13/09 12:44 PM. Reason: .
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #185007
07/13/09 01:01 PM
07/13/09 01:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Quote

those things take corners like jet fighters, if you have the balls and skills for it


When I throw it into tight corners (on clean and dry roads !) I always think of Hamster and his commentary when testing the Carver.

"I want machine guns strapped to the side of this thing, ... , something that fires missiles maybe"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPOkeJCiw9A&feature=related

When riding in Karls neighbour I think I probably need these as well !


By the way Rolf, didn't you have a Trike ?

What brand and Type is that "normal" recumbent in the photo ?


Quote

Electric kit would be nice if I was going to commute with it (30km one way, hilly..)


They also have a special high torgue motor on offer for carrier-tricycles; intended to get you up inclined roads with such bicycles loading with goods. In your case I would fit one of those; 250 Watts + your own legs makes for 450 Watts. Enough for doing 20 km/h uphill against (average) 7% inclined roads and some additional weight like a small suitcase; just get a second battery (2.4 kg) to carry enough juice (36V/18Ah/4.8 kg = 650 Wh = 2 hours at full engine power). On your way down you'll do 80 km/h or more without assist or peddling. I will feel like you are peddling (unassisted) up a 1.5% incline or so.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185009
07/13/09 01:06 PM
07/13/09 01:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Quote

I think you lost the sense of humor in all these posts.



I appears that I didn't and you did.

I just upped you one in my reply.


Personally, I don't cycle on 55 mph ways but I do on 30 mph roads. I typically do 16-19 mph on these with significant head winds. With the winds from the rear I do 22 to 28 mph.

Actually driving a recumbent on 30 mph roads is actually not to bad as the speed of these is alot more comparable to the cars driving their. Normal bikes do go slower though.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 07/13/09 01:09 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185010
07/13/09 01:17 PM
07/13/09 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
I appears that I didn't and you did.

I just upped you one in my reply.


Your American-hatred is real, and not funny.

But you can have your one-up on me if it makes you feel better.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185012
07/13/09 01:46 PM
07/13/09 01:46 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Wouter,

it is just a cheap recumbent made in Taiwan: http://www.twbents.com.tw/HTM/co.htm

I never had a trike, but you and I talked about how a trike would do as a commuter some time ago. I think it was the same thread where Luiz refused to believe the inclines our roads have grin



Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185015
07/13/09 02:05 PM
07/13/09 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
When I visited Wouter some years ago, I was amazed by the amount of bicycles over there. Everyone rides. So of course they have bike lanes on most roads, and bike lockers at the train stations, and you can take your bike on the train if you like.

America is just not set up for bikes, period. Sure, there are few towns here and there where they have a few bike lanes, but most places, forget it. You are taking your life in your hands (or more likely, putting you life into the hands of some of the worst drivers in the world) any time you go out to ride a bike on the road.

I cannot even count the number of times I've had stuff (bottles, cans) thrown at me, or been yelled at ("Get OFF the ROAD!") when I've been riding my bike on the roadways, vs. sidewalks. The average US auto driver doesn't own a bike and hates bikes riding out on the road, right in HIS way.

Our lower gas prices (or less taxed gasoline) over here for the past...50? years, has led to a mindset that the car (or Truck, or SUV) is the King of the Road, and all others (pedestrians, bikes, mom's pushing strollers) will get the HELL out of the way, or die.

As you can see right here Wouter, I wasn't kidding when I told you about cars vs. bikes over here. A couple years ago, the morning after winning the 12 Hours of Sebring American LeMans race down here, the winning European driver (sorry, I've forgotten his name and country) went for a bike ride, was hit and killed by some old geezer driving a Caddy. Did the geezer do jail time? No. Why not? Because the bike was on the road...

Years of racing cars but he was killed by another lousy American driver who couldn't figure out how to -go around- a bike on the road. That's why I ride on the sidewalk.

Oh, I forgot to mention my wife and I were nearly killed by a drunk driver who T-boned us while we were on my BMW motorcycle about 20 years ago. I haven't felt safe riding a mortorcycle on the road since. Helmets saved our lives. I wear a helmet when I ride my bicycle too.


Blade F16
#777
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185018
07/13/09 02:46 PM
07/13/09 02:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Not long ago, I watched as a young woman tried to cross U.S. 41 with a baby in a stroller. 4 traffic lanes, 2 turn lanes and a median. No help from the traffic lights. No bus stops near by. Motorists were patient, and actually yielded to get her across safely.

Fix the price of gas at $3.50. Use the "profit" for something useful.

Gas guzzlers, SUVs in particular, and Tad's SUV especially, should be taxed off the road.

Last edited by pgp; 07/13/09 02:48 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185020
07/13/09 02:56 PM
07/13/09 02:56 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Timbo,

we got the same mentality in my country as well, if to a less extreme degree. "Roads are for cars so get out of my way". It is pretty ironic as most who ride bikes, tractors etc. also have cars with associated fees and taxes and have a right to be use the road as well. When I get into discussions about these things I simply point at the law and tell them that it is their selfishness speaking. That tends to piss them off and they go on about how bikers are a danger to themself, how they hold up traffic etc etc but after explaining and pointing them to a few juridical evaluations on the topic they grugdingly agree.
Cars need to be more expensive and more dangerous to drive. Put the driver in front of the front axle in a simple vinyl shelter so they can feel the pain when they hit something. Dont do maintenance on roads but pump the money into bicycle trails and things might change fast grin

The dutch are the kings of bike trails/roads! I wish we were as good here.. Perhaps in the future one day.

PS: I do have a car, a breadbox on wheels from Renault. A Kangoo laugh laugh It takes care of my needs of transportation where a bike will not do, is cheap and more of a utility than something I use for fun. Taking corners with it is NOT something you do with speed and ease laugh grin

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185021
07/13/09 03:05 PM
07/13/09 03:05 PM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by Wouter

[quote]"I want machine guns strapped to the side of this thing, ... , something that fires missiles maybe"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPOkeJCiw9A&feature=related
When riding in Karls neighbour I think I probably need these as well !
By the way Rolf, didn't you have a


Yea but can it pull a F-18?

Who cares.. i want 1 (or 3)

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #185022
07/13/09 03:09 PM
07/13/09 03:09 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Of course it can pull an F18, it is a proper batmobile!

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #185023
07/13/09 03:09 PM
07/13/09 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
It's not that we hate bikes in the US, it's just that the distances we travel are much further. In the Netherlands, I could take my bike and ride to most anyplace I need on a weekly basis (grocery store, dinner, whatever). Worst case, I could take the bike to the bus or train station and go anywhere from there.

In the US, we absolutely do not have that infrastructure, and won't have it anytime in the next 50 years, if ever. Taking my bike to work is not an option, as it's 20 miles for me. To boot, I'm in sales, so taking a bike trip to GA every other week isn't an option, nor is a bus or a train.

So what are my options?

I drive an SUV. I often travel long distances with my boat and do numerous regattas (more than most on here). Furthermore, I double-stack with various other boats as much as possible. Do you think your car will handle a double-stack N20 rig on I95? Keep dreaming.

At 23 years old, having multiple cars isn't too much of an option due to insurance costs and the other associated costs of vehicle ownership.

So, what do I do? Give it all up, move to a city, and never venture out? Almost every one of you is great at pointing out problems and symptoms, but never at offering a reasonable solution (which always included some sort of compromise).

It's always the same. Arguments always break out and then everything becomes polarized. Stupid comments are made by both sides (see recent argument between Tad and Pete-pgp), and then we move on to another thread and it's all repeated.

Why?


Trey
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: NCSUtrey] #185024
07/13/09 03:17 PM
07/13/09 03:17 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
You ask why? That is pretty easy. Becouse we stray into anything else than sailing, often political laden stuff which creates resentments between posters.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #185025
07/13/09 03:18 PM
07/13/09 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
I'm still horny over the T-rex


Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: NCSUtrey] #185030
07/13/09 04:41 PM
07/13/09 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
"Why?" I like to irritate Tad.

Seriously, a number of sedans or station wagons would do the job of your SUV and get better mileage. Please remember that the SUV is a fairly recent phenomenon. The use of a truck chasis was a market ploy to get around mileage standards, iirc.

Last edited by pgp; 07/13/09 04:43 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: NCSUtrey] #185035
07/13/09 05:01 PM
07/13/09 05:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

I used to own a Toyota starlet and a peddle bike. I pulled everything from doublestacked beach cats to 5 landyachts in one go. I used the bike for the groceries and smaller stuff, like one to transport just myself, a jacket and sunglasses to visit my parents or whatever. Over the last 10 days I've averaged 50 km per day (31 miles) on my recumbent. And I've loaded up two large grocery bags into the side bags about 16 kg total.

The 1993 Toyota did 38 mpg and still did 150 km/h with a boat trailer and a Prindle 16 and Prindle 18 stacked on it. Even getting away at the traffic light was never an issue.

Investment taken up in both was 4000 + 450 Euro's (9 year old starlet and recumbent bike) = 4450 Euro's

Quote

Do you think your car will handle a double-stack N20 rig on I95? Keep dreaming.


Absolutely yes.


The only compromise that I take is that I won't be picking up 23 year old supermodel bimbo's. But then again I'm old enough to know the really hot ones require at least a Porsche or Ferrari (these gold diggers know their stuff about who has serious money and who is just prentending) and that there are other far more inexpensive ways to get the god stuff (which aren't necessarily 23 year old bimbo's with an attitude).

Of course a hummer will all this was more ease (except taking tight corners). And yes I'm lucky enough to life in a nation with such a good infrastructure for peddle bikes that I can win any race against a car through suburban area's (seriously, I can, even over 15 km/10 miles).

But the solutions are here and they are real. Several of us are actually doing it. I for one am riding my bike half the time to the place of daily toil which is 60 km one way. My record is 2 hours and 6 minutes to complete the trip and typically I take 2 hours and 20 minutes to do so. Mind you during that record I also carrier 18 kg of bagage in my (bulky) carrier bags. By car I typically used to cover this distance in just under 90 minutes during rush hour. The additional 55 minutes it takes by bike peddling through lush green nature parks is not too much of a hit when compared to the 60 km total one-way distance.

Of course, I too wou'dn't be doing it in a business suit but that is not the point. I enjoy doing this, have a shower at the place of arrival and have a time schedule that allows this. I'm actually doing it and therefor it is a reasonable solution for me and not some environmental treehugging fantasy.

Wouter


Last edited by Wouter; 07/13/09 05:05 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: pgp] #185036
07/13/09 05:04 PM
07/13/09 05:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by pgp


Fix the price of gas at $3.50. Use the "profit" for something useful.

Gas guzzlers, SUVs in particular, and Tad's SUV especially, should be taxed off the road.


After a stupidass comment like that what little bit of credibility you had with me just went out the window.
Yeah, I know your a badass you go to the gym...blah,blah,blah
Tawd


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185039
07/13/09 05:10 PM
07/13/09 05:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Most places where I have lived, bicycles are not allowed on the sidewalks. In the Keys, though we have a bike path that goes for many miles.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: NCSUtrey] #185041
07/13/09 05:34 PM
07/13/09 05:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
"It's always the same. Arguments always break out and then everything becomes polarized. Stupid comments are made by both sides (see recent argument between Tad and Pete-pgp), and then we move on to another thread and it's all repeated.

Why?"

Because it's important. We need a an energy policy that makes sense. To gain that policy the consumer has to be de-programed. The SUV is a fashion statement based in human psychology. http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html

http://www.rapailleinstitute.com/

As a salesman, you may find this informative.

Last edited by pgp; 07/13/09 05:41 PM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Mary] #185042
07/13/09 05:39 PM
07/13/09 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Mary, I would prefer riding on the road, it's much smoother! In fact I own a nice Bianchi road bike but have not been on it in about 10 years, because I was nearly hit by a car while riding one day.

Now, 12 years ago, up in New Hampshire where I used to live and ride that nice Bianchi, I had some close calls due to narrow roads and two wide dump trucks but none of the yelling and bottle throwing and deliberate swerving at me, like I have had down here in Sebring. Southern Hospitality my butt! Rednecks hate bicyclists, pure and simple.

So I bought a mountain bike to ride down here after the near miss on the Bianchi, to soften the ride on the side walks and to jump over the curbs and go through the sand and grass if I need to get out of the way quickly. Because there are some roads I ride that have no sidewalks, I feel safer on the mountain bike when it comes to jumping the curb into the grass, and have not crashed...yet.

After one car came by last fall that swore and threw a bottle at me, I got his license plate number and when I got home I called the local police and gave them the info, never heard back. I also asked if I was right in riding on the road, or should I be on the sidewalk. He said I should ride on the road but realistically, I would get hurt or killed, so they don't enforce the -no bikes on the sidewalk- rule.

So there you go. We are supposed to ride on the road but the Police know we are safer on the sidewalks! I do prefer the road, but I also don't want to die or be hit by a bottle. I do ride on the road when I see dog-walkers or small kids on the sidewalk, or where there is no sidewalk. What we really need are Bike Lanes! But that costs money, so you know that's just not going to happen.


Blade F16
#777
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185044
07/13/09 05:46 PM
07/13/09 05:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Timbo
Mary, I would prefer riding on the road, it's much smoother! In fact I own a nice Bianchi road bike but have not been on it in about 10 years, because I was nearly hit by a car while riding one day.

Now, 12 years ago, up in New Hampshire where I used to live and ride that nice Bianchi, I had some close calls due to narrow roads and two wide dump trucks but none of the yelling and bottle throwing and deliberate swerving at me, like I have had down here in Sebring. Southern Hospitality my butt! Rednecks hate bicyclists, pure and simple.

So I bought a mountain bike to ride down here after the near miss on the Bianchi, to soften the ride on the side walks and to jump over the curbs and go through the sand and grass if I need to get out of the way quickly. Because there are some roads I ride that have no sidewalks, I feel safer on the mountain bike when it comes to jumping the curb into the grass, and have not crashed...yet.

After one car came by last fall that swore and threw a bottle at me, I got his license plate number and when I got home I called the local police and gave them the info, never heard back. I also asked if I was right in riding on the road, or should I be on the sidewalk. He said I should ride on the road but realistically, I would get hurt or killed, so they don't enforce the -no bikes on the sidewalk- rule.

So there you go. We are supposed to ride on the road but the Police know we are safer on the sidewalks! I do prefer the road, but I also don't want to die or be hit by a bottle. I do ride on the road when I see dog-walkers or small kids on the sidewalk, or where there is no sidewalk. What we really need are Bike Lanes! But that costs money, so you know that's just not going to happen.


Move in with the Woutster. It sounds like road bike nirvana, for ya.

Here, I love how the road bikers say they won't ride on the bike path(after tax dollars built it for them) because of slower riders and pedestrians ,but its totally fine to back up traffic cuz they won't move over for cars. I don't know about elsewhere but here they've earned their scorn.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #185045
07/13/09 05:48 PM
07/13/09 05:48 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



I want one of these Wouter. http://www.terratrike.com/

Doug

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #185047
07/13/09 06:28 PM
07/13/09 06:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
I know full well this isn't the case for every American, but when I actually worked normal hours, I was working usually at least 50 hrs a week, on the high end I worked 75 hrs a week with regularity. The closest comute I've had so far has been the one I have now and its 5 miles. The longest being 27 miles. Not a chance in hell even at 5 miles would I ride a bicycle to and from work. I bust my butt, I have a physical job, and the last thing I want to do is peddle for the next 25 minutes when I could spend that time eating or sleeping. When you work 12 hour days the thought of your commute taking at least three times as long isn't that appealing.

Pete, does your plan for banning all of the larger vehicle apply to those who use them for work too? Cause I may have to change jobs if I gotta buy a fleet of Smart Cars to haul my product and tools to a job site. What about semi trucks? Now with the new diesel emission laws a semi is lucky to get much over 4mpg when loaded.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #185048
07/13/09 06:29 PM
07/13/09 06:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Why are there pedestrians on the bike path? No sidewalks? I'd love to have just -one- bike path to ride and I think even I could figure out how to go around the slower riders and pedestrians.


Blade F16
#777
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185054
07/13/09 07:00 PM
07/13/09 07:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by Timbo
Why are there pedestrians on the bike path? No sidewalks? I'd love to have just -one- bike path to ride and I think even I could figure out how to go around the slower riders and pedestrians.

They actually call it a multi-use path, but it's about 6' wide.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #185056
07/13/09 07:38 PM
07/13/09 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
I've gotten so I can ride on that 4" wide white line on the edge of the road for miles at a time, because there is no paved shoulder, only soft sand to the right. A 6' wide path would be like a 4 lane highway! There can't be too many of those around, are there? I know in England I've seen wide "multi use paths" but they have a dividing line down the middle, with painted "Walk" on one side and "Ride" on the other. The bike riders get VERY pissy if you walk on the bike side of the line!

Don't ask me how I know... ;^)


Blade F16
#777
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185080
07/14/09 03:27 AM
07/14/09 03:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
My only gripe with people who ride bicycles on the road is that they don't obey traffic laws, like stopping at stop signs.

Anyway, here's a bike for ya. It's a Tall Bike.

Attached Files
Tall Bike.jpg (171 downloads)
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Mary] #185082
07/14/09 03:54 AM
07/14/09 03:54 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
When riding in the road riders should follow the same laws that apply for cars. Police should fine them if they break the law or take away their driving permit/bring charges, just as with cars. Some riders are very unresponsible and outright dangerous. Especially riding up to the light in a light controllet intersection, bypassing the line of cars, is dangerous. You never know if the driver besides you noticed.

Multi-use paths are dangerous. Usually there are way too many intersections where cars have to cross and the drivers never notice a bicycle coming along. Lots of accidents happen that way.
The layout of multi-use paths are usually laid out for walkers, so bikes have to accelerate/brake all the time or get off to cross roads while walking the bike. Not very efficient for those choosing to travel cleanly.
In addition the maintenance is much worse on those compared to pure bike lanes. Riding multi-use paths without suspension is hard on me at least and often there is glass or gravel in the lane as well. Sad but true.

Timbo,

sounds like you have been walking in London grin

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #185085
07/14/09 04:35 AM
07/14/09 04:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Doug,

If you get a recumbent bike I advice you look seriously at these features :

-1- Rear suspension (either on wheel or seat)
-2- Dual drive propulsion (not only a back and front derailleur)
-3- Sit elevation at least 450 mm of the road unless you really want a low trike
-4- mud guards.
-5- get a rearview mirror


The reasons for this are simple

-1- At 20 mph every bump in the road is transmitted to your back and upper body. Without suspension this is not very enjoyable. Note that on a normal bike you automatically lift yourself out of the seat to soften the impact on your body. You can't do that on a recumbent.

-2- If you use the recumbent in any usages that involved regularly stopping for say a traffic light then the dual drive system is absolute king. (look up SRAM dual drive).

http://www.dahon.com/components/xl/dualdrive.htm
http://www.gstrikes.com/dualdrive.html

One of the problems with a recumbent is making a quick stop (emergency) and then being stuck in a very high gear and unable to shift down to get started again. Note that derailleurs require you to have some speed to be able shift down. On a normal bike it is much easier to drive really slowly and maintain balance. On a recumbent (excluding trikes) this is much more difficult and I feel getting away slowly and as the very last is neither enjoyable or safe. The light may be red again, greening the cars that may hit you and you'll have to overtake all others that waited at the light with you. The dual drive lets you shift down even in a full stop and accellerate away very quickly. OI enjoy doing this and actually drag race the cars for who is first at 25 km/h (16 mph).

-3- At about 500 mm seat height you can look the drivers of Japanse and European cars straight in the eyes. The very low recumbents like trikes sit so low that you'll be hidden behind car's doorpanels or are very hard to see overall (in their mirrors etc). Additionally, you yourself see more at that elevation, especially when riding along many hedges or concrete crash walls.

-4- You just drive through a rain puddle at 20 mph or more and see where the debri and water that flies around ends up. I feel this is a disadvantage of the trike design. You are right in the spray field of both front wheels.

-5- Should be obvious. You just have to keep track of the cars overtaking you and check that they move around you. Raising an arm and waving tends to wake up drivers who are at sleep. On a recumbent it is much harder to turn your head and look behind you; the rear view mirror solves this problem very well and allows you to be much more in control


Other then that; Speed is everything. The harder you can peddle the less problems you'll have with cars. People think that cars are fast but in my experience they only do 20 to 25 mph average speeds in urban area's. If you can approach that by peddling then the speed difference has gotten so small that there is plent of time for them to spot you and they actually have to stpe on the gas to overtake you.


I hope this helps

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Karl_Brogger] #185086
07/14/09 04:52 AM
07/14/09 04:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Karl,

Of course a peddle bike is not a tool truck nor should society want this. There should be room for both. Those people who can cycle to work should and those who can't must be free to use the car. There are plenty of business case commuters in comparison to guys who need to bring a large tool set to private residences.

With respect to 5 miles commuting. That is a pretty ideal distance for a peddle bike assuming the roads to it are up to specs for bike riding. It is actually the distance at which Dutch research has found that people are willing to commute on normal upright city bikes. In fact, the average time lost with respect to taking the car was found to be less then 10 minutes per trip which is nothing when compared over a whole workday. Especially, during rush hour the difference can be small and often be less by bike then car. But I grant you that The Netherlands have excellent infrastructure for bikes often allowing you to take short cuts.

Mind you peddling 5 miles in 25 minutes is pretty slow for a person who rides alot (only 19km/h). Even when I go to the grovery store I do at least 23 km/h (or 20% faster). At first you don't or sweet doing so but after a few times your body adjusts to this effort and you'll go faster and start to sweet less or significantly later. You'll do this trip under 20 minutes; unless their is steep climbing involved.

But of course their are always situations where biking is not practical as probably your case is. The idea is however that it is practical for a large portion of the others. Those who can should. Other then that, laying down bike paths using concrete slabs or even asfalt is much easier to do then making a road for cars that need to withstand 18 ton trucks. It may not even be a very large expense with local communities to lay down a few dedicated bike paths parallel to the road.

But this is of course a chicken-and-egg problem.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185100
07/14/09 09:49 AM
07/14/09 09:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Timbo
Mary, I would prefer riding on the road, it's much smoother! In fact I own a nice Bianchi road bike but have not been on it in about 10 years, because I was nearly hit by a car while riding one day.



Awww, Timbo, don't be so skert. They put my arm back together after a car used me as a speed bump so long ago, and medical technology has improved a bunch since then. They could probably fix you up if you became someone's hood ornament.

ANd the new single payer health plan with foot the bill for you, right? smile

Where is that popcorn?

I think bike lanes are great and more effort should be put into this type of system as well as driver education. They are expanding bike lanes in my home county as part of any road expansion project. This keeps bikes off the sidewalk (now to deal with rollerbladers who keep knocking pedestrians over...) and speed limits under 45 make it more survivable for cyclists.

I have a nice strobe on the back of my road bike (embarrassingly old Cannondale) and coupled with a bright shirt, I think most drivers have to see me. I ride during non-peak traffic hours, and pretty much assume that any intersection I have to make solid eye contact with the drivers (in front and behind) so they drive over me making a turn.

I'm also lucky enough to have groceries, fuel, and a selection of local restaurants within a 1 mile radius of my house (with good sidewalks and bike lanes). Sure, it costs a lot of tax millage, but it should work in the long run to allow those who can use bikes for some things to do it more effectively.



Jay

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: waterbug_wpb] #185101
07/14/09 09:54 AM
07/14/09 09:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I'm lucky enough to live half the year on an island where most people travel by foot, bicycle, golf carts or mopeds, and top speeds on the roads are 25 or 35 mph.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Mary] #185103
07/14/09 10:03 AM
07/14/09 10:03 AM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Mary:

I built one of those in 65. Took a bike frame and flipped it over. Reversed the petals and welded some pipe to fork and seat tube. Had to get a skirt gun full of ammonia and water to keep the dogs from biting at my feet. Bitch to get on and off.

Doug

Last edited by DougSnell; 07/14/09 10:25 AM.
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #185105
07/14/09 10:34 AM
07/14/09 10:34 AM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D




Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185107
07/14/09 10:49 AM
07/14/09 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by Wouter
People think that cars are fast but in my experience they only do 20 to 25 mph average speeds in urban area's. If you can approach that by peddling then the speed difference has gotten so small that there is plent of time for them to spot you and they actually have to stpe on the gas to overtake you.

Check this for urban riding. Drag Race NYC may be the best.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: hobie1616] #185112
07/14/09 12:18 PM
07/14/09 12:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Originally Posted by Wouter
People think that cars are fast but in my experience they only do 20 to 25 mph average speeds in urban area's. If you can approach that by peddling then the speed difference has gotten so small that there is plent of time for them to spot you and they actually have to stpe on the gas to overtake you.

Check this for urban riding. Drag Race NYC may be the best.


If the guys around here rode like that, there'd be no problem. That was excellent.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #185117
07/14/09 01:08 PM
07/14/09 01:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Team_Cat_Fever  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Here's a couple of my rides.

Attached Files
DSCN0065 (Small).JPG (111 downloads)

"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #185120
07/14/09 01:31 PM
07/14/09 01:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
Atlanta, Ga
BLR_0719 Offline
enthusiast
BLR_0719  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 271
Atlanta, Ga
Do people really think getting rid of SUV's is some big step in energy conservation?

That would be like putting a teaspoon of water into an empty bath tub then jumping up and down while clapping excitedly about your efforts to fill up the tub.

A boeing 747 airplane uses a gallon of fuel per second. A 10 hour flight can use 36,000 gallons(150,000 liters).

How many flights are there per day in the world? Now pipe down about my SUV and its fuel efficiency.



Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #185121
07/14/09 01:41 PM
07/14/09 01:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Not in particulary, no.

There are so many recumbent models that it is very hard to know the complete scene.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: BLR_0719] #185126
07/14/09 02:44 PM
07/14/09 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Originally Posted by BLR_0719
Do people really think getting rid of SUV's is some big step in energy conservation?

That would be like putting a teaspoon of water into an empty bath tub then jumping up and down while clapping excitedly about your efforts to fill up the tub.

A boeing 747 airplane uses a gallon of fuel per second. A 10 hour flight can use 36,000 gallons(150,000 liters).

How many flights are there per day in the world? Now pipe down about my SUV and its fuel efficiency.


No, but rethinking is essential to solving the problem.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: pgp] #185128
07/14/09 03:08 PM
07/14/09 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Here's the -thing- on the whole conservation issue, in my little, narrow mind.

Some day, maybe 100 years from now, maybe more, maybe less, nobody knows for sure, but some day, oil will run out, right? I mean it is a -finite- resource, right? Nobody is making more crude, right? So, even if we all conserve and ride bikes and buy Smart Cars, even then, some day, oil will still run out.

Then what?

Shouldn't we all be thinking about that day and trying to "invent" a new fuel now? A fule we can put into our cars, or trains, or airplanes, etc? Or...should we keep doing the same old thing, and just cross our fingers and hope there's enough oil to last until -we- take the big dirt nap, and put it off for the next generation to come up with new answers?

Personally, I like electricity as "fuel". All we really need is new technology to produce it and a new battery to store it.


Blade F16
#777
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: BLR_0719] #185132
07/14/09 05:12 PM
07/14/09 05:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


You make a fundamental error.

It is not always the few big spenders that make up the largest single segment of use.

Sure an airplane uses alot of fuel per second, but how many SUV's are driving on the road at that very same moment do you think ?

If you have 100 flights in the air and a million SUV's on the road; which of the two do you think is burning off more fuel per second ?

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185133
07/14/09 05:15 PM
07/14/09 05:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Personally, I feel fossile fuel are much to valuable to simply burn it off.

Note how many things are made of oil. Plastics, asfalt, carbon fibre etc.

It is far smarter to use something else for fuel and save the oil for the really high grade and valuable stuff.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185135
07/14/09 05:28 PM
07/14/09 05:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Quote

Personally, I like electricity as "fuel". All we really need is new technology to produce it and a new battery to store it.



I feel most of this cycle has been solved already. The only real challenge left is the mobile storage of electricity (= batteries). That is really not up to specs yet.

Other then that, we have all the technology we need.

Personally, I'm convinced we all have to accept to "do it" with less. We simply can't expect to drive an electric F150 with a 500 mile range over the next 50 years. Electic peddle bikes are in the cards however.

It is a totally different picture when we all need a 2.5 kg Li-ion battery pack for our daily transport or a 250 kg li-ion battery pack. (Basically, the difference between a 0.5 hp and 44 hp average over a 50 km/31 miles range).

And of course you simply can not propel a 2 ton SUV on a "0.5 hp over 50 km" daily ration.

You can however have a recumbent bike do 30 mph over that range with "0.5 hp over 50km/31 miles" including some 15 kg of cargo in your side bags or child seat.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185138
07/14/09 06:20 PM
07/14/09 06:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Wouter, you'd have a coronary if you knew how much my pickup weighs.

Why do SUV take all of the heat in this? Its a free market, people will drive what they want. Does a Windstar or Odyssey minivan make more sense than an Tahoe or a Explorer? Honestly I don't see that many of the bigger SUV's, people don't buy that many Excursions, or Suburbans. Never really have either compared to the smaller models.

I'm actually all for the electric pickup. DC motors a f-ing awesome. Instaneous torque at any rpm. But Americans are terrified of nuclear power, and that is the only means of producing enough electricity to make it a viable solution.

Originally Posted by Timbo
Some day, maybe 100 years from now, maybe more, maybe less, nobody knows for sure, but some day, oil will run out, right? I mean it is a -finite- resource, right? Nobody is making more crude, right? So, even if we all conserve and ride bikes and buy Smart Cars, even then, some day, oil will still run out.


Tim, don't tell the folks in North Dakota sitting on the Willsiton Basin that. You might get laughed at.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Karl_Brogger] #185141
07/14/09 07:13 PM
07/14/09 07:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Karl, you really think I care what the people sitting on the Willsiton Basin laugh at? Is it a bottomless pit, full of oil? Or is it coal, being turned into oil? Either way, it's going to run out some day.

And here's something I've wondered about since I was a kid. They were building a Nuke Plant about 10 miles from my high school back in the mid 70s', the Seabrook Station, Seabrook, NH. The big fear was escaping radiation in the event of a disaster of some type, like Three Mile Island.

So why don't they build nuke plants under ground, like a nuke missle silo?

OK, being board to tears and living in the lightning capital of the world, why are we not looking at building big lightning rods that can harness the lightning strikes and store the energy in big battery banks underground? Free energy with every thunderstorm!


Blade F16
#777
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185142
07/14/09 07:24 PM
07/14/09 07:24 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D




Re:greeting to wouter.. [Re: Wouter] #185145
07/14/09 08:42 PM
07/14/09 08:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
addict
brobru  Offline
addict
B

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
wouter,
just wantedto say 'hello'.i am moving to tampa at summers end,...18 years in caribbean is enough.
ii was just getting the inter 17 dialed in pretty good,.....pity...but new competition will be good, regards, bruce, st. croix
ps, at least i can drive away from a hurricane now

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185146
07/14/09 08:42 PM
07/14/09 08:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by Timbo
Is it a bottomless pit, full of oil?


Damn near, the Energy Information Administration estimates it at 503 billion barrels of light sweet oil.
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Karl_Brogger] #185147
07/14/09 08:51 PM
07/14/09 08:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
Quote
.18 years in caribbean is enough.


A lifetime in the Caribbean is never enough...

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: BLR_0719] #185149
07/14/09 09:06 PM
07/14/09 09:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by BLR_0719
A boeing 747 airplane uses a gallon of fuel per second. A 10 hour flight can use 36,000 gallons(150,000 liters).

Assuming 347 passengers per flight, that's about 103.7 gallons per passenger or 10.3 gallons to cover over 400 miles every hour.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185151
07/14/09 09:11 PM
07/14/09 09:11 PM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Yea but there are two sides to St Croix. One good, one bad. OH and when I was working there the light bill on the condo for the month was $936. Luckily company paid for it.

Doug

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Karl_Brogger] #185159
07/15/09 05:11 AM
07/15/09 05:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

I'm actually involved in this field of electricity generation and this is an telling chart.

Uranium itself is pretty finite as well. If we start using it to provide for all our "current needs" it too will run out in about 50 years.

I doesn't make much sense to replace one finite resource by another of equal duration.

The only real reserve is coal with 200 years but that has serious drawbacks of its own.

Attached Files
Last edited by Wouter; 07/15/09 05:13 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185161
07/15/09 05:22 AM
07/15/09 05:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Other then that, there are only one way we can generate enough energy for our TRUE needs and that is solar power (which includes wind by the way)

It is just that we simply can't continue at our current level of energy usage. Basically, we used up 300 million years of solar energy stored as oil in 150 years. We simply can not glass over (mirrors) and area large enough or proces enough silicium to install enough solar power in the next 50 years.

But the best point is that we also don't have too !

Pretty large savings can be had by simple modifications in our way of living. Hell, if our grandparents could live of an energy diet that was only 10% of the "bare necessity" today then why can't we make a significant reduction in the same time span of 50 years ?

The biggest problem is that we THINK we need to spend large amounts of energy ... or else the sky will come falling down.

And I'm not only talking about it. I was forced to ditch my car and my energy consumption has now been reduced by just over 10.000 kWh. It was just over 12.500 kWh and now it is 2500 kWh or 20%. And I can't say that my life has changed that much in quality at all. When I transport my boat I lend a car from a friend or my parents; it is only a few times a year at max. For all my other needs I'm well cater for by public transport like trains (another good infratruction in the Netherlands) and bicycles.

Interestingly enough, over the next few year the Dutch will have installed 1000 MW or wind power on the north sea or 10% of the demand for the whole of the Netherlands. With this ratio I'm personally only using 10% the amount of fossile fuel that I was a year ago. We a large section of the populace does this then we have just expanded a 50 year oil span into 500 years; although installing the other 10% or renewables is still the really smart thing to do.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 07/15/09 05:31 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185162
07/15/09 05:30 AM
07/15/09 05:30 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Originally Posted by Wouter


The biggest problem is that we THINK we need to spend large amounts of energy ... or else the sky will come falling down.


Yup! Whole post was very to the point and good, but the last bit sums it up. World is changing..

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #185163
07/15/09 05:35 AM
07/15/09 05:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Well, it was a very well learned lesson hearing the Norwegian story Rolf.

I couldn't believe the amount of energy these guys used up per year. They had lots of installed water power and it was so cheap per kWh that they were using many more times the total amount as other citizens in Europe. I remember you telling me that Norwegian didn't even isolate their houses against the cold and just turned up the heating.

That is what an abundant available and cheap energy source does. It stimulates waste and unreasonable energy usage. And that is exactly what happened with oil.

Cheers mate !

Wouter




Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185164
07/15/09 06:06 AM
07/15/09 06:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Now this is what I think has future from an engineering sense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdyV6cZ4ZMg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0zYb6lBig&feature=related


Although I would have extended the seat by some 350 mm (between rear wheel and driver seat) and thus create a small internal cargo bay behind the rider.

The styling is right however and with a 350 Watt BionX electric assist drive it'll do 30 mph which is enough for commuting. A 15 sq. ft. solar cel array on the roof of your house will be enough to power this thing whole year around if you drive a total 30 miles a day.

This way environmental may even be cool heh guys ?

For kicks, I guarantee you that you'll be looking for the hills to drive downhill from. The speed sensation in such a thing cornering at 90 km/h is something else. Makes the climb up all worth while.

Wouter

Attached Files
Last edited by Wouter; 07/15/09 06:17 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185165
07/15/09 06:22 AM
07/15/09 06:22 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Originally Posted by Wouter


I couldn't believe the amount of energy these guys used up per year. They had lots of installed water power and it was so cheap per kWh that they were using many more times the total amount as other citizens in Europe. I remember you telling me that Norwegian didn't even isolate their houses against the cold and just turned up the heating.


Due to the sheer scale of hydroelectric installations electricity was cheap. My own house have electric heating cables all over the ground floor, with no unsulation to the ground (that I know of). If I turn them on, they will heat the floors and rooms, but also the part of mother eart beneath my house.
You have to remember that during winter our heating and light demands are a fair bit higher than yours and we love hot water! Still no excuse for not insulating houses during the 50s. From the 60s and onward houses are insulated with 10cm in the walls and 20cm in the ceiling. Still, what is used in the private sector is not that much compared to the industry. E.g. melting aluminium with electricity.. It is all changing though as our dear state is building more and more transfer lines to export electricity to Europe. Prices are on a steep rise here now thanks to these lines.

A solar cell will not recharge the batteries in that vehicle during winter. At leat not here. It is frequently "dark" all day and night if the weather is bad. Even with sun there is not more than three to four hours of sun midwinter.


I do think vehicles like that is what we all are going to drive pretty soon.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #185167
07/15/09 06:44 AM
07/15/09 06:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Quote

A solar cell will not recharge the batteries in that vehicle during winter. At leat not here. It is frequently "dark" all day and night if the weather is bad. Even with sun there is not more than three to four hours of sun midwinter.



Modern cels don't really need direct sunlight anymore and can make do with dispersed light; it is just that the total yield is lower. I calculated 50 Watts per sq mtr. where modern cels are rated up to 150 watts in good lighting conditions. Additionally, I wrote the post with the Yanks in mind and they are alot closer to the equator then either one of us !

In our situation a combi power station with a solar cel and a small wind turbine is probably best.

Something like a (smaller version) of the darrieux turbine depicted here

http://www.quietrevolution.co.uk

The version depicted is quite large at 5 mtr tall and 3 mtr width but it also does between 4000 kWh and 10.000 kWh per year. Actually, almost twice to 4 times the amount my household uses annually including everything.

The depicted vehicle would only need in the order of 150 kWh per year if it does 12.500 km/7800 miles (= equal to 20L or 6 gallons of gasoline a YEAR when converted at 50% efficiency = typical powerstation). So for 400 kWh (= need + ample margin) our home turbine would be 1.5 mtr tall and just under a mtr wide. Fitted to the chimney of our houses. Actually, you can home build a darrieux turbine yourself. The underlaying principle is not that hard.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 07/15/09 06:51 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185169
07/15/09 07:17 AM
07/15/09 07:17 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Give me one of those vehicles with a spare seat and I'll use it for commuting and other everyday needs. A lot cheaper to buy and run than a full car!

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185186
07/15/09 10:14 AM
07/15/09 10:14 AM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Wouter:

Looks neat. ? How hot is it closed in? It get in the 100's here is the summer.

Doug

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #185189
07/15/09 11:03 AM
07/15/09 11:03 AM

D
DougSnell
Unregistered
DougSnell
Unregistered
D



Taking a defensive drivers course online today for a ticket dismissal. I thought this was hilarious !!!!! Straight fron the course!!!!



If you cannot find the owner that does not mean that you're not responsible for your mistake. If you hit a parked car, you are obligated to find the owner, if at all possible, and take financial responsibility.
Taking a defensive drivers course online today for a ticket. I thought this was hilarious!!!!! Straight from the course


You are required by law to leave a note explaining the situation and providing your name, address, and contact phone numbers. The note must be attached to the vehicle in a secure manner.



If you leave the scene without making an attempt to find the owner or without leaving a note, you can be charged with a hit-and-run violation, which carries a far greater penalty than the cost to fix the other.

Doug

Attached Files
Last edited by DougSnell; 07/15/09 11:05 AM.
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ] #185190
07/15/09 11:19 AM
07/15/09 11:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
They Hyperion system is a cool concept, but... as was said before, Uranium is a finite resourse. They are in process of mapping the moon right now since there is Uranium there.

http://www.hyperionpowergeneration.com/

Breeder reactors are a very interesting technology. You would start making fuel and after three years of operation (I think) you would have enough fuel to start another reactor.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Will_R] #185193
07/15/09 11:32 AM
07/15/09 11:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Sounds too good to be true. But. . . who knows?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: pgp] #185195
07/15/09 11:42 AM
07/15/09 11:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Still have to deal with the politics and politicians who will milk the "NIMBY" angle for favors and/or money, or both.


Blade F16
#777
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Timbo] #185197
07/15/09 11:59 AM
07/15/09 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
T

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
I read something about how Naval scientists recently rectified the findings on cold fusion and its theoretical possibility of existence.
I'm not an expert in that area of science... any promise there?

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Will_R] #185198
07/15/09 11:59 AM
07/15/09 11:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

That is rich; spending heaps amounts of fuel and resources to mine Uranium on the moon.

I know solar stations got that hippy green environmental rep to them but dare I venture to say that building those in large enough numbers is both easier, cheaper and more dependable then mining uranium on the moon ?


Breeders are alot better then normal fission reactors but there is one small snag if I remember correctly. The breeders are also very good at producing (waste) plutonium; the main ingredient for powerful nuclear bombs.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185200
07/15/09 12:13 PM
07/15/09 12:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Quote

I read something about how Naval scientists recently rectified the findings on cold fusion and its theoretical possibility of existence.



We must be very mindful of any "super wapon" that will solve all our problems in one go. They simply don't exist.

We know hot fussion is a possibility but even after 50 years of research we have not yet been able to produce a viable concept that uses fusion for large scale energy production. We are still inputting about as much energy as comes out of it.

That is why solar stations and wind turbines are so attractive. They may not be perfect but these technologies have already run their development curves and are ready to be installed NOW and for well understood costs.

It is similar with the electrified go-one^3 ; it may well not be everybodies idea of a hot rod but it will get you to your work over significant distances wearing your normal cloths and be viable for rainy days and slippery roads. Selling millions of 5 kg li-ion battery packs providing 1 hp for a whole hour is possible now. What is not possible is given everyone 500 kg of li-ion technology for 100 hp power plants.

So our best bet is to get the go-one^3 certified for normal roads when fitted with a 1 hp electrical hub motor and have it do 30 mph. Then get large segments of the populace to use this vehicle and allows a much smaller section of the nation (people like karl) to keep using the large trucks. That is untill a viable alternative comes along for them as well. At the bear minimum we will have bought ourselves heaps of time to possible get cold or hot fussion working.

That is the big challenge of the coming decades; convincing the people that much less can be almost as good..

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 07/15/09 12:18 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: Wouter] #185202
07/15/09 12:28 PM
07/15/09 12:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
old hand
Will_R  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Hey, I didn't say it made sense, I just said they were doing it!! lol

A little background on Breeders:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_reactor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOX_fuel

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: ThunderMuffin] #185226
07/15/09 02:35 PM
07/15/09 02:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Undecided
Quote
.18 years in caribbean is enough.


A lifetime in the Caribbean is never enough...


Have you lived on an island before? It has its ups and downs. Three phrases I never heard in my short time living on one in the Bahamas:

"we have (whatever) in stock right now"
"Order it today and it will be here tomorrow"
"It's cheaper here than the states"


Jay

Re: This is what I drive currently [Re: waterbug_wpb] #185228
07/15/09 02:40 PM
07/15/09 02:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
wout:

Try liquid energy storage medium (which is sort of what petroleum is --- energy created by photosynthesis a billion year ago stored as a liquid). Denser energy (kJ/cu.cm) than batteries. hydrnol


Jay

Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 637 guests, and 78 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1