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Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: Jake] #187847
08/13/09 09:49 AM
08/13/09 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 975
South Louisiana, USA
Clayton Offline
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Clayton  Offline
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South Louisiana, USA
Do you have to make another resin separator for each time you use it? Or is the amount of resin collected not an issue? You would think the resin would harden in the hoses and collector making it a one use item.

Clayton

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: Jake] #187848
08/13/09 09:50 AM
08/13/09 09:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
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You can find small leaks with a stethoscope. It may take a little time; don't ask me how I know.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: Clayton] #187856
08/13/09 10:17 AM
08/13/09 10:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Clayton
Do you have to make another resin separator for each time you use it? Or is the amount of resin collected not an issue? You would think the resin would harden in the hoses and collector making it a one use item.

Clayton


At least for me, ideally you don't get any resin back into the tubing. With a perforated bleed layer over the lamination coupled with a layer of felt, the excess resin should be captured within the bag. The felt performs double duty by first allowing full distribution of vacuum inside the bag (the bag / laminate would otherwise tend to seal itself) and absorb excess resin.

However, if you are infusing, you don't use the perforated / peel ply or the felt and you will most certainly get some resin back in the tubing. You throw away the saturated tubing when done. You can line the reservoir with a bag or place a small bucket/cup inside to catch the resin as it drips in (assuming you can open it once sealed). Mike's PVC reservoir is nice for this purpose - he can just cut it off and glue a new bottom in the reservoir with a union (though it would be nice to be able to see inside...but I'm not sure how you do that without some expensive acrylic tubing)



Jake Kohl
Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: Jake] #187863
08/13/09 10:38 AM
08/13/09 10:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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dave mosley  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,253
Columbia South Carolina, USA
Originally Posted by Jake
Mike,

Nice setup on the vacuum. Note, however that the pump will not hold the vacuum on it's own if you turn it off - it will bleed back through the vanes and discharge your reservoir.. a check valve at the discharge of the pump, or better yet, a electric 3-way mac valve will seal off the vacuum pump when it's off.



In the medical field we use a "water seal system" for chest tubes. It creates a negative pressure system for reinflating the lungs after puncture or surgery(The lung cavity has a negative pressure which keeps the lungs inflated as opposed to the notion that air inflates them positively), but anyway once suction is applied to the water seal system, it cannot bleed back thru the water to lose the pressure. I suppose a check valve does the same, but the bong with a water filled chamber between the pump and the seal may suffice for cheap.

I had the same question about bleed back of extra resin into the bong...does it collect there and harden, or is there a relief for the resin to pour out?

Thanks for all the info, keep it coming

Last edited by dave mosley; 08/13/09 10:40 AM.

The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: dave mosley] #187995
08/13/09 10:07 PM
08/13/09 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
One of the main reasons is to keep any extra resin away from my pump. Lay-up on a 20’ hull with two skins of carbon and some spots 4 skins in tropical heat will have to be fast so if a little extra epoxy goes on it will be bagged out into the felt, if the felt fills it will go into the reservoir. That is not the plan to suck epoxy into the reservoir like Jake says .........but when do things always go according to plan?

The resin that may go into the tank will just harden in the bottom. At some point if it clogs the reservoir you can cut the bottom off and add a new piece of PVC.

I used clear tubing from the manifold to the pump and resin checked the tubing to see if it melts. The tubing worked well and I actually peeled the resin off of it. I will also use the clear tubing from the mold to the reservoir so I can see if I have epoxy flowing out of the mold. The clear plastic tubing is about $5 for a 10’ roll and should be reusable because it will be in upwards bends so the resin will flow through it, not sit in it.

The water seal sounds good, and from what I hear, bongs had water in them but with the vacuum created on these systems it would suck the water right into the pump.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: TheManShed] #187998
08/13/09 10:32 PM
08/13/09 10:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
Thanks Pete I don't have a stethoscope but I use a piece of tubing. I use to tune twin SU's carbs on my MGA the same way.

The vacuum held for an hour then I opened it up because I went to bed and wanted to lock the pump up in the shop.

Now if the rain stays away this week-end. I've got two week-ends before my shoulder surgey to finish the mast and get the first lay-up on the TMS-20. Then I will be injured reserved for 1 - 2 months.


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: TheManShed] #188019
08/14/09 07:21 AM
08/14/09 07:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
You're welcome. You do realize what you've started with this "ManShed" thing? So far I've thrown out two big bags of crap that were hiding my work bench and added three new sets of shelves. Soon, I'll actually be able to do some work!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: pgp] #188031
08/14/09 09:03 AM
08/14/09 09:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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David Parker  Offline
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Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
Quote
...I've thrown out two big bags of crap that were hiding my work bench


Terrible mistake! You know exactly what will happen. You will immediately need something that you just threw out.

MANLAW: NEVER throw anything away that is remotely useful. (build a bigger shed, a ManShed!)

Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: TheManShed] #188074
08/14/09 03:39 PM
08/14/09 03:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
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Posts: 893
Originally Posted by TheManShed
Few answers;

From the break down towards the foot of the mast the ID of the mast section is 50mm and the wall thickness is 5mm so using a 1:10 taper the outside skin will taper out to 50mm for the repair.


Carbon Uni repairs are notoriously difficult and with your method you will get a very unique bending of the mast under load. The repair chamfer angle for most manufacturers carbon Uni strand is 100:1 and not 10:1 and to maintain strength to adhesion correctly this should be attempted as well as possible. From a practical point it is nearly impossible to do on a round surface. Best of luck but do not be dissapointed at the bend characteristics of the repaired mast as from experiance it is very very difficult. smile

Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: waynemarlow] #188107
08/15/09 03:02 AM
08/15/09 03:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 678
Palm Beach County
TheManShed Offline OP
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Palm Beach County
Thanks for the information Wayne. I have room for a 100:1 taper.

Pete is that a bad thing?


Mike Shappell
www.themanshed.com
TMS-20 Builder
G-Cat 5.7 - Current Boat
NACRA 5.2 - early 70's

Re: Repairing A=Cat mast [Re: TheManShed] #188115
08/15/09 08:37 AM
08/15/09 08:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
laugh Not at all!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

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