Carl, Mark

To try and answer some of your questions.

The 3D is not being built to any existing Formula rule. The reason being as it is being built for use here and as readily evidenced by the posts in the F20 forum a Euro rule boat will not make on the best seller list in the US and no one has standardized on a formula for a US F20 class.

None of the I20 guys will give up sail area to join a formula. But as evidenced buy the results at Tybee, the NE 6.0 is for all intensive purposes, just as fast over a wide range of conditions. And, as Mark stated, there is only so much sail area a 8-6 beam boat can carry, so the purpose of the boat was to try and maximize performance over the widest range of conditions with the given platform. If some one really wants to show up with 800sf of upwind sail area and kick butt in 2 knots of wind, I say let them, but they better be willing to go out when its blowing 25 too with the same sails.

This boat was origionaly on the drawing board as a super lite 10' beam boat. (heads up with the M20 etc). With the exception of a handfull of faithfull Tornado addicts, who will not change boats anyway, there is not much market for boats that you can not carry on a regular trailer. As for racks, it was tossed around, discussed with a variety of different people and finally rejected. A rack does not change the righting pivot location, and so minimally increases the leverage while increasing the complexity and weight of the boat.

As for platform weight, the first unit is designed and comming in right at 300 lb. It is possible to go lighter, and some trial hulls are being fabricated to look at various combinations of core and reinforcing materials (carbon, kevlar etc). The real limiting factor will be the ability to make a robust platform that does not cost more that what the other production 20 footers are selling for in the US. How many people can afford an M20 anyway? Somewhere in the 300 lb range is a significant improvement on weight over the I20, allows the use of standard materials and will not sacrifice durability adversely.


Matt

Wings are so much more fun though

yeah - some big 'ol Aussie 18 style racks - that's what we need!

Hi Carl


THANKS, The C100 is looking good. I will look forward to Gales entry. I have ordered the trophies from Claire and they will be lovely and the Barbeque from Red Hot and Blue (probably not quite like Tami's favorite)is as good as gets north of the Mason Dixon line) The I20's just made class!

The F18's and F18HT's are planning a stealth surge at the end of registration. Betwen you and me, I don't think they want to spook the rest of the racers and scare them from competing (grin). But I have this long list of ... Yeah... I coming...

We have three deep in Spin and Sloop division, three deep in class trophies for helm and crew and of course the top trophy Best Corrected time for helm and crew.
I figure, one of the following boat types will win it. Hobie 20, Inter 20, Supercat 22, Tornado, not to mention the smaller F18HT and F18's who of course have a shot depending on how well they sail under the Portmouth Handicap.

Take Care
Mark
ps
Pray for wind for us... you have to be due by now!

Thanks Matt

This will be a fantastic cat at 300 lbs ,
You know as well as any to make the rudders-boards tough,
the pivot board is a good idea .-per T

Raced the H-21 in 88 when new,--in the Prosail events ,--the wings were great . The main problem with the H-21 was weight ,--this cat weighs less than half the 21.
The 21 wings were very lightweight ,and moved the crew weight av 350 lbs some 2 ft further outboard ,--thats 700 ft lbs of extra righting ,--THAT EQUATED TO MORE SAIL AREA CARRYING ABILITY ,
and better light wind ability also over existing cat 8.5 beam designs as well .

Just getting some design debate going ,
always fun .

thanks again Matt
looking forward to this new cat

Carl,

How about this for the Tybee if we cannot get a straight-out F-20 approach...

Allow any rudder mods, dagger board mods, or mast mods you want as long as it does not exceed the OEM's envelope for those components. Guys are already building up the gudgeons on the I-20 for strength as well as reinforcing the rudder heads, why not allow improved castings or machined parts for that matter to improve safety and survivabilty. I know some 6.0 guys that want to run a carbon stick and some I-20 guys that would not mind going back to an aluminum stick for cost and durability. If it is the same height...who cares other than the weight delta or a preference for feel. I like the Carbon stick, but I've not broke three masts like some our friends.

Limit the length on the spinnaker pole to stock length, but allow a little more choice on the I-20 pole than just the full-on buoy racing snuffer/sock and the somewhat anemic alloy distance racing stick. I'd like to put a mid-pole Tornado style snuffer on a carbon pole on Soul Surfer myself.

Keep the sails stock for now...that seemed to work well and I think the length of the race and the unavoidable varied conditions kept the 6.0 and I-20 pretty close this year although I do think the 6.0 may have had a slight advantage with the bigger chute and jib, but you and most of the Rock Stars were on I-20's this year...not to take anything away from the 6.0 guys who were all great sailors and kicked my butt. However, Rick Bliss would have been real tough to stay wity out there on his 6.0. Rob and I chased him around in St. Thomas this year and he and Brandy really Rock on the new NE 6.0 set up. Real fast...that Yellow 6.0

It was a great race and thanks again to Chuck, Judi, Rick, Brandy, Sean, Scott, Sandy, Frank, Jamie, et al for the hard work and sacrafice it took to put on such a cool race.

See you on Tybee or in Texas...

Jim Stone
I-20 #509 Soul Surfer
I-17R
Hobie Wave

Those that distance race in these types of events understand the -pragmatic aspects for safety which is the main reason for a F-20 type class,-basic boat specs defined clearly , and max sail areas per boat weight listed .--

The other aspect for next year should also be complete disclosure by all teams of all modifications to boats one month before the race ,--for example as you noted -reinforced sterns -rudders castings boards ,-a mid pole snuffer , etc.
this way any team could have the opportunity to add any other mod or feature any other team had .
team web sites and pics are very helpfull ,-the intent is to win per rule #2 in ISAF racing rules --as a test of sailing skills on reasonabley equal boats . --not a ratings game or by special modification no one else has.
Racing the 6/0 ""class"" in past W-1000s most know the boats were not equal ,--I-20s have 3 different spin cut variations ,and are reinforced and modified . For distance racing boat prep is a big part of the game ,-often for safety reasons as noted and just to help insure a finish .


Your list is perfect except for being able to also add a main reef system ,--just as the 18 hts had this year ,-would have liked to see some weather when they could use them ,-they would have been very effective and much more controlable .

There should be no problem racing an I-20 with a N-6/0 hull platform or Supercat 20 8.5 beam platform -or Fox platform ,-or Storm ,-or H-20 -or P-19 -or any ISAF recognized 20 with a modified sailplan or same size I-20 sailplan on it .

Were back to basic F-20 rules ,--that need to be limited to production types only as listed for now .
The H-Fox --H-20 --Inter 20 --sc 20 8.5 beam ,--Storm 20 its a U K 20 --N-6/0 --Or any current ISAF CLASS 20 per N A F-20 specs.

Per other posts in the thread and current F-18 racing -these are minor variations between boats and nothing that directly effect skippers ability or race finishes that good boat prep.and practice would not cover.

I recall in the old days a catsailor bringing out a RC 27
to local races ,-he could not start on time ,-could not read shifts ,-was afraid to drive the boat hard ,-and had poor crew work ,--we often beat them around the course on H-18s . --It takes a good team to sail well on any cat .

That same RC27 has now been relocated to the Rudder Club in Jacksonville: its new owners are working hard on the same stuff!

I wonder how a hobie fox with a 32' stick, long spin pole with a snail snuffer and a monster jib would stack up against a NE 6.0 NA and a I20. The NE6.0 NA and the fox would be similar in most wave actions according to wouter's diagrams.

Just fuel for the thought fire.
Steve