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Re: That Cuban Run [Re: SurfCityRacing] #199168
12/18/09 01:31 PM
12/18/09 01:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SurfCityRacing
Originally Posted by Will_R
Looking into doing the race and might I say that the list of potential boats to use does NOT include a H-18....

IMO, speed is safety to a point. The longer you're out there, the more chance of something going wrong.


Wait a minute...I just read this thread where a few people were arguing that a N20 was safer offshore than a TheMightyHobie18. That might be true, but lets put it in perspective.
No beach cat would even rank as 'safe offshore sailboats' due to their open configuration. Robi, correct me if I'm wrong. Most boaters die from exposure, therefore, even a 1978 Santana 22 would be infinitely 'safer' than the nicest brand new F18.

The safety ranking would look like:
x)
x)somethng with a cabin
x)
x)
x)
Then waaaaaay down the list, almost at the bottom next to the kayaks and faaar down from the Santana 22...
x)
x)
x)
x) N20
x) TheMightyHobie18
x) Kayak
x) open canoe
x) kiteboard

My point is that on a safety scale the TheMightyHobie18 and n20 are not that different.

j


Very true, people perish from exposure. When comparing the TheMightyHobie18 to a N20, the advantage of an N20 is it is much faster, making your exposure smaller. The faster you can get in and out the better it is overall.

This is why faster is better for something like this. The faster teams will be less exposed, because they will finish the crossing in a much faster time.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Mary] #199169
12/18/09 01:41 PM
12/18/09 01:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Mary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjP8nbIhXOQ

If the organizer of the Cuban Run wants George Bellenger's phone number to ask him questions, send me a private message and I'll give it to you.

George has made five crossings to Cuba, mostly solo, so he knows the waters well. He also has had quite a bit of experience with the government agencies involved.

P.S. As you watch that video, keep in mind that waves never seem to look as big as they are in either still photos or videos.


So there you go guys. Any more questions?


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Mugrace72] #199170
12/18/09 01:45 PM
12/18/09 01:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mugrace72
Originally Posted by Mary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjP8nbIhXOQ

If the organizer of the Cuban Run wants George Bellenger's phone number to ask him questions, send me a private message and I'll give it to you.

George has made five crossings to Cuba, mostly solo, so he knows the waters well. He also has had quite a bit of experience with the government agencies involved.

P.S. As you watch that video, keep in mind that waves never seem to look as big as they are in either still photos or videos.


So there you go guys. Any more questions?
Yes, the one I have been asking since the day I found about this race. If anyone gets in trouble who will they call?
How will they make that call?

Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Robi] #199171
12/18/09 02:31 PM
12/18/09 02:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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~timidly~ ghostbusters?


smile


Jake Kohl
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Jake] #199172
12/18/09 02:37 PM
12/18/09 02:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Jake
~timidly~ ghostbusters?


smile
LOL! it took longer than what I thought for someone to come up with that reply. LMAO!!!

Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Robi] #199175
12/18/09 03:50 PM
12/18/09 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
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Charleston, SC
I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to have Robi's personal cell phone on speed dial.


Trey
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: NCSUtrey] #199176
12/18/09 04:02 PM
12/18/09 04:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
sat phone?


Jake Kohl
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Robi] #199177
12/18/09 04:15 PM
12/18/09 04:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Quote
Very true, people perish from exposure. When comparing the TheMightyHobie18 to a N20, the advantage of an N20 is it is much faster, making your exposure smaller. The faster you can get in and out the better it is overall.

This is why faster is better for something like this. The faster teams will be less exposed, because they will finish the crossing in a much faster time.


I don't believe exposure is the issue when all is well and either boat/crew is performing optimally. An hour or few difference is all we are talking about.

However, when either boat/crew is disabled, the exposure/survival issue progressively gets more critical.

At best, rescue resources will be limited. I wouldn't count on the organization to be able to provide much. USCG will do whatever is within their capability, but keep in mind that if conditions are bad, there will be more than one of you needing assistance and there will certainly be non-racer related missions that the Guardians will be attending to as well.

An EPIRB might be more useful than a VHF, but the VHF will be handy when rescue is nearby. Only the Coast Guard will be able to receive the EPIRB signal however. Chase boats would not have locating abilities.

A tough and unsinkable boat makes more sense than a fast complex boat IMO.



Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Jake] #199178
12/18/09 04:20 PM
12/18/09 04:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
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Charleston, SC
Bingo...


Trey
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Jake] #199179
12/18/09 04:35 PM
12/18/09 04:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by Jake
sat phone?


Can you keep it dry enough to work reliably when in peril?

We lost an I-phone and GPS in the Steeple chase last week, 1/2 mile from shore. I'm sure you Tybee guys have all sorts of stories about failed/lost/water-logged comminication gear.

Then again, it probably will be a milk run and everyone will be sunburned while they are sipping Mojitos and smokin' Diplomaticos! cool



Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Mugrace72] #199180
12/18/09 04:42 PM
12/18/09 04:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Mugrace72
Originally Posted by Jake
sat phone?


Can you keep it dry enough to work reliably when in peril?

We lost an I-phone and GPS in the Steeple chase last week, 1/2 mile from shore. I'm sure you Tybee guys have all sorts of stories about failed/lost/water-logged comminication gear.

Then again, it probably will be a milk run and everyone will be sunburned while they are sipping Mojitos and smokin' Diplomaticos! cool

I prefer Montecristos, smooth and sweet.

Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Robi] #199181
12/18/09 04:48 PM
12/18/09 04:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
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K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
1 gps is never enough. Always take 2. Don't ask me how I know! (btw, I had 2)

Keeping spare batteries sealed in a ziplock bag, that is sealed in another ziplock bag, that is sealed in a drybag, is not enough protection. Don't ask me how I know.

Removing batteries from the flashlight/strobe will get your GPS working again, but you'll have a damn hard time doing it in the dark (no flashlight). Don't ask me how I know.


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: ksurfer2] #199187
12/18/09 05:38 PM
12/18/09 05:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Northfield Mn
Have you Tybee guys ever tried putting your electronics into the vacuum seal freezer type bags? I've stored rifles that way, and thought it might work for stuff on the boat. If you gotta open it you're screwed, but you really shouldn't have to anyway I'd think.

Re: That Cuban Run [Re: hobie1616] #199188
12/18/09 05:40 PM
12/18/09 05:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
Just watched the video Mary posted. Made me think that lots of 3M reflective tape would be a good idea. Including the bottoms of the hulls/beams.

Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Karl_Brogger] #199195
12/18/09 07:38 PM
12/18/09 07:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Would we have to carry rifles to Cuba? Todd?


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: arbo06] #199197
12/18/09 10:13 PM
12/18/09 10:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
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Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by arbo06
Would we have to carry rifles to Cuba? Todd?


Not a good idea.


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Mugrace72] #199198
12/18/09 10:26 PM
12/18/09 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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T

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Portland, Maine
Karl: usually a hefty dry bag; not the ones that look like heavy duty ziplock bags - I'm talking about the roll the top down and clasp bag - plus IPX7 or 8 waterproof rating is a good combination.

However, In my case - electronics die from just plain abuse while on the boat. We're not gentle on the stuff and I can't tell you how many foretrex flew off my wrist (not because of the pin - but because the damn thing slid down my wrist). This past Tybee we managed to lose a foretrex and then during the last leg (disaster) launch, I landed on top of the GPSMAP76 and cracked the screen when we launched off a wave.

Re: That Cuban Run [Re: ThunderMuffin] #199200
12/18/09 11:17 PM
12/18/09 11:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
wrist gps, Garmin 76 taped to the boom (in a drybag), and another 76 in another drybag in a trampoline pocket. A tactic solar digital compass on the pole.

On a long day, turn the gps units off (yes, even your primary) until you need them....no point in having them on while sailing along coastline and you know you're hours away. On open ocean, use the compass, check the gps periodically to refresh you bearing. Changing batteries is a painful exercise.


Jake Kohl
Re: That Cuban Run [Re: Mugrace72] #199214
12/19/09 03:28 PM
12/19/09 03:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
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Keith  Offline
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Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Originally Posted by Mugrace72


Quote
Very true, people perish from exposure. When comparing the TheMightyHobie18 to a N20, the advantage of an N20 is it is much faster, making your exposure smaller. The faster you can get in and out the better it is overall.

This is why faster is better for something like this. The faster teams will be less exposed, because they will finish the crossing in a much faster time.


I don't believe exposure is the issue when all is well and either boat/crew is performing optimally. An hour or few difference is all we are talking about.

However, when either boat/crew is disabled, the exposure/survival issue progressively gets more critical.

At best, rescue resources will be limited. I wouldn't count on the organization to be able to provide much. USCG will do whatever is within their capability, but keep in mind that if conditions are bad, there will be more than one of you needing assistance and there will certainly be non-racer related missions that the Guardians will be attending to as well.

An EPIRB might be more useful than a VHF, but the VHF will be handy when rescue is nearby. Only the Coast Guard will be able to receive the EPIRB signal however. Chase boats would not have locating abilities.

A tough and unsinkable boat makes more sense than a fast complex boat IMO.



A few things. Don't discount exposure issues even when things are going "optimally". Over that distance fatigue and even a little chill, small cuts, a little sunburn, etc. grow in significance. And if you've been out there longer before things go bad, you're starting from a more weakened state. Take into account how one can handle the situation if the other is disabled. Not turn anybody into worry bags, but simply things to consider.

An EPIRB/PLB (one for each crew, on their bodies) is essential (required for this event I'm sure), and if you can't raise anyone on the VHF (one for each crew, on their bodies) you'll need to trip it. You need to register the unit providing contact info - that should be the race officials, and when they are contacted they should be able to get coordinates (which may be old, but can provide the race folk with a starting point to search for your bodies). That having been said, you must be willing, prepared, and able to do as much as possible for yourself and your crew before setting it off. Comments about you not being the only one in need of help if things are bad are spot on. Hopefully a forecast window will be analyzed to minimize that potential.

I'm guessing that over the distance, the difference in finishing time between an N-20 and H-18 may be significant, depending on the conditions. I've owned both (and others), and I have to say at this point I am pretty impressed at what the N-20 can take and do. So, if I were to do this event, I'd take tough, unsinkable, AND fast, thank you. But maybe chasing in the F-27 might make more sense...

Re: That Cuban Run [Re: ksurfer2] #199223
12/19/09 09:34 PM
12/19/09 09:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
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Home is where the harness is.....
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
1 gps is never enough. Always take 2. Don't ask me how I know! (btw, I had 2)


Toasted 3 in the '02 W1k in two days...

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