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Re: us sailing survey [Re: rhodysail] #201826
02/02/10 12:53 PM
02/02/10 12:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Here's Gary's email, from his website I posted above, there is also a phone number listed on his website. I did call and left a message many months ago, and he called me back, so you might try that.

garyjobson@cs.com

I just took the survey and also listed Catamran Sailor Magazine and the website as my sources for sailing info. Now I'm going to write him. Yes...I'll be nice.


Blade F16
#777
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: us sailing survey [Re: David Ingram] #201838
02/02/10 01:34 PM
02/02/10 01:34 PM
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Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by andrewscott
dont be to "nice"


This is exactly the WRONG thing to do. If you a$$hole up with Gary I can guarantee your message will never be heard and will hurt any efforts taking place to further the multihull cause within USSailing. I absolutly encourge you to reach out to Gary and express your disappointment but be adult and courteous in your exchange, anything else will make the situation worse. For those that have given up on USSailing and have nothing but an axe to grind I ask that you please walk away and let those that are actually trying to make things better work the task at hand without having to repair relationships damaged by multihull hatemail.


Wow, couldn't agree more Ding.

Mike

Re: us sailing survey [Re: brucat] #201895
02/02/10 04:57 PM
02/02/10 04:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline OP
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tampa, fl
Gary Jobson's response to my e-mail:

Karl,

I too was unhappy with the multihulls being left out of the survey. It is getting fixed.
In the meantime Randy Smyth and I are going to cover the multihull America's Cup next week on ESPN 360. We'll have a good chance to promote catamaran sailing.

Gary Jobson


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: us sailing survey [Re: ksurfer2] #201901
02/02/10 05:58 PM
02/02/10 05:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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\o/

Re: us sailing survey [Re: ThunderMuffin] #201906
02/02/10 06:27 PM
02/02/10 06:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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You go Karl.
You single handedly got Gary and Randy to cover the AC. I bet Jake is gonna haaatttteeee you.He was looking for that spot.


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
E. B. White
Re: us sailing survey [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #201909
02/02/10 07:13 PM
02/02/10 07:13 PM
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Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Holy smoke and mirrors, Batman.

Gary and Randy are going to cover the AC because USSA multihull members want them to, and they want to promote multihulls? Are you BLEEEEEPING kidding me???

Call me crazy, but Gary is going because it's the AC (I know, he stayed home last time, but he's the president now). Randy is going because Gary needs someone who knows multihulls.

I'm not going to complain, because any press is good press, especially at that level, but let's not blow too much smoke up our butts.

I seriously hope Gary is being genuine, but even if he is, he's got a really uphill climb ahead of him to change the culture of USSA. They couldn't even get the survey right.

Mike

Re: us sailing survey [Re: Team_Cat_Fever] #201927
02/02/10 09:58 PM
02/02/10 09:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
You go Karl.
You single handedly got Gary and Randy to cover the AC. I bet Jake is gonna haaatttteeee you.He was looking for that spot.


haha...well, crap. I guess we gotta get that ESPN feed working now. The feed might suck but the coverage shouldn't be pretty good...although, I have a feeling I will prefer hearing Randy talk at the campfire with a beer rather than a camera...but his take will be interesting.


Jake Kohl
Re: us sailing survey [Re: Jake] #201951
02/03/10 08:25 AM
02/03/10 08:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline OP
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More from US Sailing. This one kind of rubs me wrong, but at this point, I think I am going to let it go.

Hi Karl –

Thanks for taking the time to provide your comments. The multihull sailors certainly are passionate, as we received several comments from your colleagues. Let me present our thought process. Multihulls were considered when we were building this, but the approach was to categorize them into to the broader buckets. Possibly this was not the correct way to think about it. Nevertheless, our goals was to be brief and focused without slicing things too many ways. Towards this end, we may have omitted some options, and for this I apologize. The shortfall I guess was viewing multihull sailors as sailors, and not as a specific interest group or boat design. Our goal is inclusion rather than exclusion. We will store this experience for our future activities. Our plan is to run shorter, more focused studies on more regular basis, and we will certainly treat multihulls differently.

Thank you again for your comments.

Best,

Jack Gierhart
Associate Executive Director
US SAILING
JackGierhart@USSAILING.ORG


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: us sailing survey [Re: ksurfer2] #201954
02/03/10 08:34 AM
02/03/10 08:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Originally Posted by ksurfer2
More from US Sailing. This one kind of rubs me wrong, but at this point, I think I am going to let it go.

Hi Karl –

Thanks for taking the time to provide your comments. The multihull sailors certainly are passionate, as we received several comments from your colleagues. Let me present our thought process. Multihulls were considered when we were building this, but the approach was to categorize them into to the broader buckets. Possibly this was not the correct way to think about it. Nevertheless, our goals was to be brief and focused without slicing things too many ways. Towards this end, we may have omitted some options, and for this I apologize. The shortfall I guess was viewing multihull sailors as sailors, and not as a specific interest group or boat design. Our goal is inclusion rather than exclusion. We will store this experience for our future activities. Our plan is to run shorter, more focused studies on more regular basis, and we will certainly treat multihulls differently.

Thank you again for your comments.

Best,

Jack Gierhart
Associate Executive Director
US SAILING
JackGierhart@USSAILING.ORG


Congratulations Karl, you seem to have struck the right tone with them. But I find this repsonse just as disturbing and perhaps more so than the offending survey.

"The shortfall I guess was viewing multihull sailors as sailors"

At least you got a response.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: us sailing survey [Re: ksurfer2] #201956
02/03/10 08:50 AM
02/03/10 08:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
The shortfall I guess was viewing multihull sailors as sailors, and not as a specific interest group or boat design.


As I didn't receive a survey, what categories did they offer for you to specify your "interest". I note Karl put "other" for most responses.


USA 777
Re: us sailing survey [Re: tback] #201957
02/03/10 09:01 AM
02/03/10 09:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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I don't remember all of them but dingy and keelboat were among the options. Certainly catamaran or multihull were not.



Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: us sailing survey [Re: tback] #201963
02/03/10 09:45 AM
02/03/10 09:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by tback
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
The shortfall I guess was viewing multihull sailors as sailors, and not as a specific interest group or boat design.


As I didn't receive a survey, what categories did they offer for you to specify your "interest". I note Karl put "other" for most responses.


Terry, you didn't get a survey because your membership is not current.

You are Terry Back from Winter Springs, yes? Or are you using another alias?


David Ingram
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Re: us sailing survey [Re: David Ingram] #201964
02/03/10 09:47 AM
02/03/10 09:47 AM
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pgp Offline
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Remind him to renew. . . at D south.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: us sailing survey [Re: pgp] #201965
02/03/10 09:47 AM
02/03/10 09:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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I suppose that Jack is disingenuous to think that cat sailors are simply "sailors" and others can be "categorized" by "interest" like "dingy" or "keel boats".



USA 777
Re: us sailing survey [Re: tback] #201966
02/03/10 09:54 AM
02/03/10 09:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Oh for F!@# sake guys! It's a process and this guy is just like anyone one of us that doesn't like getting called on the carpet by the boss! You've NEVER tried to rationalize away a mistake!? And yes Gary does have his work cut out for him, and we need to make his efforts worth it!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: us sailing survey [Re: David Ingram] #201968
02/03/10 10:00 AM
02/03/10 10:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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This is a customer relations issue. If you were the boss and had delegated a subordinate with the task of "dealing with it" would you be satisfied with the result thus far?

It's the underling being taken to task here, not the boss. The boss might well be interested in how the matter is being handled.

And you still haven't given Terry a boot in the nuts for not being signed up for D south.

Last edited by pgp; 02/03/10 10:01 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: us sailing survey [Re: tback] #201969
02/03/10 10:00 AM
02/03/10 10:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
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So here was the question I see that categorizes sailors:
Which category of sailing do you normally participate?
Select one:
One design dinghy racing
One design keelboat racing
Handicap racing
Team racing
Match racing
Day sailing
Coastal cruising
Ocean passage making
Other
While I agree with all of you and clicked other, I don't think one design dinghy racing would have been to far of a stretch for me and anyone else who races cats. For the rest of the catsailor on here that do not race I think day sailing would cover it.
While I don't think it was wrong of anyone to voice their opinion I honestly don't think it's THAT big of a deal. I think maybe we should have been categories under high performance sailing which would also have covered skiffs and etc. I think to ask for a multihull specific category is asking a bit much since like they said, they are trying to go for a general and broad survey. If they were going for specific they would have had to list lots more than they did including windsurfing, ocean racing, and etc. Along the same lines while I do lots of team racing i'm not sure why they would have their own categories isntead of being grouped under dinghy racing if multihull racing or high performance sailing don't get there own category.
I agree with Karl on Jack's tone being a little harsh and disrespectful to multihull sailors. I think it was just a bad choice of words on his part maybe he meant to insert dinghy sailors which wouldn't in my opinion be offensive and I might make him aware of that.

Last edited by wildtsail; 02/03/10 10:04 AM.
Re: us sailing survey [Re: wildtsail] #201970
02/03/10 10:12 AM
02/03/10 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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When I read that same question I initially thought the same, One Design Dinghy, but then I started thinking about how the Tornado was dropped from the Olympics, and how I didn't want to add any more support for the One Design Dinghy classes in the next Olympics, so I also put Other, but If they had had two more categories, "Racing Catamaran" and "Racing/Cruising Multihull" or some such, I think it would provide them with much more info and provide us with more leverage for a multihull in the next Olympics. I didn't want our numbers to be added to the "One Design Dinghy" classes, which already have too many clases in the Olympics.


Blade F16
#777
Re: us sailing survey [Re: David Ingram] #201971
02/03/10 10:13 AM
02/03/10 10:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by tback
Originally Posted by ksurfer2
The shortfall I guess was viewing multihull sailors as sailors, and not as a specific interest group or boat design.



As I didn't receive a survey, what categories did they offer for you to specify your "interest". I note Karl put "other" for most responses.


Terry, you didn't get a survey because your membership is not current.

You are Terry Back from Winter Springs, yes? Or are you using another alias?


LOL eek You crack me up. I didn't say that I was a USSailing member ... only that I didn't receive a survey .... of course, they didn't send me one. I'm not a member.

You're right though, I shouldn't have an opinion on something I'm not a part of.


USA 777
Re: us sailing survey [Re: tback] #201973
02/03/10 10:17 AM
02/03/10 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Why don't you shoot them an email and tell them that if they would show some SUPPORT for multihulls, you would become a member?


Blade F16
#777
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