Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 7 of 18 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 17 18
Re: Why does Macca hate F16s? [Re: Aido] #205821
03/16/10 02:49 PM
03/16/10 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Nobody's Viper bashing, the Viper is a great boat, that's not the issue.

And I was not serious about a Pro division, but it sure seems like the F18's racing in Europe have become just that, at least all the top spots, that's what I'm trying to avoid here.


Blade F16
#777
--Advertisement--
Re: Why does Macca hate F16s? [Re: Aido] #205822
03/16/10 03:05 PM
03/16/10 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Originally Posted by Aido
Thats it timbo. Bust the class up into smaller and smaller divisions until you win something. Forget about trying to learn something from people like Macca. NOT!

We get some sensible veiwpoints from some unbiased outsiders but just ignore them and then its straight back into Macca and Viper bashing from the same clowns. Pathetic.


Macca isn't trying to teach anything, but there are others who are. And I will be spending time and money learning from them.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Why does Macca hate F16s? [Re: Aido] #205828
03/16/10 03:50 PM
03/16/10 03:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Originally Posted by Aido
Thats it timbo. Bust the class up into smaller and smaller divisions until you win something. Forget about trying to learn something from people like Macca. NOT!

We get some sensible veiwpoints from some unbiased outsiders but just ignore them and then its straight back into Macca and Viper bashing from the same clowns. Pathetic.


I was surprised that the well put, logical and balanced posts by Steve and Tigermike (he must be working for hobie.. ) were simply ignored, But then I remembered that this whole thread was started to bash me, so its only fair that logical arguments are passed over in favour of Macca bashing.



________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Why does Macca hate F16s? [Re: macca] #205831
03/16/10 04:18 PM
03/16/10 04:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
B
Brett Goodall Offline
member
Brett Goodall  Offline
member
B

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
Timbo.... who are these pros on free boats you keep talking about? There has only been once time, to my knowledge, that a pro has been given a boat.

But I see your point, sailing on the same course and having pros and Olympians in your class is not good for it at all. Bigger all the sponsorship and coverage that comes with it.

Last edited by Brett Goodall; 03/16/10 04:19 PM.
Re: Macca logic [Re: Jalani] #205836
03/16/10 05:10 PM
03/16/10 05:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Originally Posted by Jalani
Wow! This thread is turning into an epic.

Andrew, from the brief chat that we had at Carnac, I discern you to be basically a nice guy who likes his sailing. You also (occasionally) seem to make a valid point or two. As you've pointed out, this forum is a discussion board and some of the discussion in this thread is genuinely interesting - I won't go into what the rest of it is - so discuss away but please don't expect the class rules to change in favour of any particular builder anytime soon.


Hi John,

I have no expectations of the class changing the rules based on the discussion here.

This whole thread started after I defended Wouter (of all people!) regarding his reasonable expectation to have his measurement certificate completed.

Since then its been a full on bash-a-thon aimed at me and my crazy, "twisted logic" ideas that all aim to ensure longevity, commercial viability and good fair racing.



________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Macca logic [Re: macca] #205837
03/16/10 05:54 PM
03/16/10 05:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
enthusiast
Marcus F16  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
[quote=]So, not sure where the 30k went.... [/quote]

Well you spent between 5 & 6 K on the steering.! shocked


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: Macca logic [Re: Marcus F16] #205838
03/16/10 06:13 PM
03/16/10 06:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Brett, when it comes to changing class rules, I think the boat -owners- should be the only ones voting.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Macca logic [Re: Timbo] #205840
03/16/10 06:32 PM
03/16/10 06:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
What do the rules say about who gets to vote?

Re: Macca logic [Re: Tony_F18] #205841
03/16/10 06:39 PM
03/16/10 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
That is being researched right now, to see if it is "members" or "Owners"


Blade F16
#777
Re: Macca logic [Re: Marcus F16] #205842
03/16/10 06:44 PM
03/16/10 06:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Originally Posted by Marcus F16


Well you spent between 5 & 6 K on the steering.! shocked


More like $2,682 AUD. Just checked the spreadsheet smile And before any smartie asks, That is for two complete rudders including stocks.

Last edited by macca; 03/16/10 06:47 PM.

________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Macca logic [Re: macca] #205844
03/16/10 07:19 PM
03/16/10 07:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 142
3 weeks Newman WA 1 week Robe ...
Brian P Offline
member
Brian P  Offline
member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 142
3 weeks Newman WA 1 week Robe ...
guys, all i can say is thanks for the very entertaining 2 and a half hours at work i have spent reading this thread!! hahahahahaah
havent had this much fun since i watched my boss try and climb over an electric fence into a paddock of goats, not only getting zapped but getting strung up on the barbed wire while being butted in the butt by a goat with one broken sharp horn!!!!
i do not sail F16 but previous boat was a mossie, could be F16 but now sailing a stingray. not the most technilogically adavnced boat, but value for money.
if people want to spend $15-30K on a boat good on them! it leaves those of us with not so huge budgets, to own the not as popular classes for a fraction of the cost!!!


Brian Partridge
STINGRAY 580 "Fantasia"
A Class 585 "FHARKEN A"


YOU CAN'T POLISH A TURD
BUT YOU CAN ROLL IT IN GLITTER!!!!!
Re: Macca logic [Re: Brian P] #205847
03/16/10 07:39 PM
03/16/10 07:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
old hand
Darryl_Barrett  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Macca's assertion that "money" will buy a faster boat in a "formula class is completely misleading and incorrect. It doesn't matter how much carbon, Kevlar, and money you plough into a formula boat when the current boats are at the limits of the "box rule" IE they are at their minimum weight, max' sail area etc and by using any other material doesn't give any advantage, it just costs more with no returns. The only changes that can effect performance are with an "improved" hull and/or sail shape which can occur just as easily with the "lower cost" materials as with more exotic ones. So the "money buys championships" argument by Macca is just a nonsense.

Re: Macca logic [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #205855
03/16/10 09:15 PM
03/16/10 09:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
macca Offline
old hand
macca  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia
Darryl, you have just made a very good case for banning the use of exotic materials.

You think they make no difference to performance? So why have them if all they do is increase costs and reduce customer base?


________________________
http://aus300.blogspot.com
Re: Macca logic [Re: macca] #205856
03/16/10 09:18 PM
03/16/10 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
If there's a market for it, it will be filled. If not, then, well.....

Re: Macca logic [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #205857
03/16/10 09:19 PM
03/16/10 09:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Aido Offline
enthusiast
Aido  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
Originally Posted by Darryl_Barrett
Macca's assertion that "money" will buy a faster boat in a "formula class is completely misleading and incorrect. It doesn't matter how much carbon, Kevlar, and money you plough into a formula boat when the current boats are at the limits of the "box rule" IE they are at their minimum weight, max' sail area etc and by using any other material doesn't give any advantage, it just costs more with no returns. The only changes that can effect performance are with an "improved" hull and/or sail shape which can occur just as easily with the "lower cost" materials as with more exotic ones. So the "money buys championships" argument by Macca is just a nonsense.


Thats the point Darryl. None of the current boats are on minimum weight. Except for a few tiapans and the mythical Aussie blade. From what i can gather measurement certificates don't exist. And if they did no ones allowed to look at them.

If exotics give no returns then why did you build an all carbon f14?


Aido
Viper 288
Re: Macca logic [Re: Aido] #205859
03/16/10 10:21 PM
03/16/10 10:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
addict
Dazz  Offline
addict

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
I bet Darryl could build a f16 to weight and not too expensive either. is it a project you have considered Darryl?


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Macca logic [Re: Dazz] #205862
03/16/10 11:01 PM
03/16/10 11:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
old hand
Darryl_Barrett  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
We already do build a Blade to minimum weight and at the same price (retail) as quoted by Marcus. We also use a large percentage of carbon and Kevlar (one – soon to be two - with a carbon mast as well as the standard carbon rudders and centre boards - not primarily for weight saving - but for strength and longevity of the boat, in fact the material cost difference between carbon, Kevlar and “standard” fibre glass is not a great percentage of the overall costs of the boat, the main costs are in build time (labour) and Macca, to the contrary, my "argument” is solid for the allowance of the use of ANY materials that an owner desires with no detriment to the "class/formula". Why should anything be banned when it/they have no detrimental effects to the class? If you start banning simply for the sake of banning for some “airy fairy, perceived, maybe” scenario it opens the floodgates and you are treading a very slippery slope. Your “argument” is not based on any fact within the class. If and when the things that you pose should happen, surely then is the time to take the required action, to do as you say now would only damage the growth of the class and I assume that is not the reason for your posturising?

Re: Macca logic [Re: Aido] #205863
03/16/10 11:14 PM
03/16/10 11:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
old hand
Darryl_Barrett  Offline
old hand

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
We built an all carbon F14 Aldo basically because we wanted to and we could! It also solved a "supply" problem with cost for small quantities of aluminium for beams and masts for what we originally considered an experimental design. Prior to the all carbon F14 we built a standard "one off" FRP 14' (but without spinnaker) with Aluminium beams and mast - the aluminium was the last of very old stock that we had in house. The weight difference between the carbon F14 and the FRP 14 was only14Kg's

Re: Macca logic [Re: Aido] #205864
03/16/10 11:29 PM
03/16/10 11:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
enthusiast
Marcus F16  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Originally Posted by Aido
Except for a few tiapans and the mythical Aussie blade


ASSUME = butt out of U & Me.

Cat rigged blade with carbon in the foils weighed 105kgs & you will wintess this for your self at the nationals next month.

Originally Posted by Aido
From what i can gather measurement certificates don't exist. And if they did no ones allowed to look at them.



Where did that rubbish come from.? Have you asked.?

[/quote]


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Re: Macca logic [Re: macca] #205865
03/16/10 11:31 PM
03/16/10 11:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Marcus F16 Offline
enthusiast
Marcus F16  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322
South Australia
Originally Posted by macca
Originally Posted by Marcus F16


Well you spent between 5 & 6 K on the steering.! shocked


More like $2,682 AUD. Just checked the spreadsheet smile And before any smartie asks, That is for two complete rudders including stocks.


I was actually quoting figures you told me when you first recieved them. I have a good memory for this sort of stuff.


Marcus Towell

Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
Page 7 of 18 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 17 18

Moderated by  Damon Linkous, phill, Rolf_Nilsen 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 420 guests, and 79 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1