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Re: The RAZOR [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #205262
03/11/10 02:29 AM
03/11/10 02:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
phill Offline OP

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phill  Offline OP

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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
Folks,
I shelved the RAZOR project for quite a while. Just too many other projects going so it has been sitting in my workshop gathering dust.
A few weeks back I decided to get back to it.
I undercoated the hulls today.

The building has been fun. Really just like the 2 CLC 18 kayaks I built a few years back.


Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

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Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill] #205264
03/11/10 02:52 AM
03/11/10 02:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
addict
Dazz  Offline
addict
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Photos or it didn't happen!


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: The RAZOR [Re: Dazz] #205265
03/11/10 03:01 AM
03/11/10 03:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
phill Offline OP

veteran
phill  Offline OP

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Posts: 1,446
It used to be easy to add photos now it is a pain in the butt!
I'll see what I can do.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill] #205268
03/11/10 05:24 AM
03/11/10 05:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
phill Offline OP

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phill  Offline OP

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Posts: 1,446

Last edited by phill; 03/11/10 05:26 AM.

I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: The RAZOR [Re: ] #205313
03/11/10 08:24 AM
03/11/10 08:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
Hobie might love you but I don't.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: The RAZOR [Re: pgp] #205319
03/11/10 08:41 AM
03/11/10 08:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,117
Northfield Mn
[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]


Phil- Right click your photo on Flickr, select properties, then highlight and copy the address. Put the address between this: [img] **address goes here** [/img]

Re: The RAZOR [Re: Karl_Brogger] #205329
03/11/10 10:22 AM
03/11/10 10:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
That's nice. I DO like those bows Phill!

How flat is the run aft?


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: The RAZOR [Re: Jalani] #205406
03/12/10 03:05 AM
03/12/10 03:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
phill Offline OP

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phill  Offline OP

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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
John,
It's one thing to design something on a computer screen but quite another to build it and see it unfold in the flesh.
One of the joys that I will never tire of when prototyping designs.
I'm quite excited by what I'm seeing in real life and it will be great to see the Razor in full flight. I've sent you some pics. If you want any others just let me know.
I'll post some more pics once the hulls have some proper paint on them.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill] #205408
03/12/10 03:14 AM
03/12/10 03:14 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Mark P Offline
old hand
Mark P  Offline
old hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 954
Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K
Hi Phill
Congratulations. Those hulls look extremely impressive and can't wait to see more photo's.
I just 1.5 questions;
What are the main design differences between the Blade and Razor and what are the major construction differences when building in Ply.


MP*MULTIHULLS
Re: The RAZOR [Re: Mark P] #205413
03/12/10 04:29 AM
03/12/10 04:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
phill Offline OP

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phill  Offline OP

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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
Mark,
Was that 1 or 5 questions? smile

This is a chined version of the second generation hull shape.

It is considerabley more bouyant than the earlier Blade shape particularly forward of the front beam.
The relatively flat bottoms of the hull are now converted to chines.
This should deliver even more dynamic lift off the breese. The additional fore/aft stability will allow the crew to trim upwind for min drag and the sharper bows will slice very efficiently through the chop. There is no steaming required to achieve this shape and very little fairing so building can be from either ply or foam glass sandwich. The insides construction has been significantly simplified. It is no harder than building a pair of kayaks. I found it all just good fun. But I like this type of stuff.
Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill] #205505
03/13/10 03:27 AM
03/13/10 03:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Brilliant Phill, I had feared never seeing the Razor build but I'm very happen to see otherwise. I feel this design is an excellent development.

Well done indeed, looks good.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: The RAZOR [Re: Wouter] #205870
03/17/10 01:03 AM
03/17/10 01:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
X
xuraax Offline
stranger
xuraax  Offline
stranger
X
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
Phil,

do you see this method being useful for building to the 8.5M class or bigger using thicker ply?

regards

Re: The RAZOR [Re: xuraax] #205881
03/17/10 05:27 AM
03/17/10 05:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
What many forget is ply was the most advanced high tech solution, (and with the correct skills, still is), up till the Kiwi's (Jennifer Julian) started using cores in glass boats.. The US & Europe were at that time using solid glass boats or cold molding.. The impoverished kiwis and Aussies builders could not afford the expensive materials of resin and glass. er But what they did have is many learnt the trade of building Aussie and kiwi WW2 planes. And good supplies of quality ply.


If you look around there are pages and pages of historical documents of well build offshore races built out of ply.. So the answer.. is yes a 8.5 meter cat could be built from ply if the builder has a good skill set and ply is available.. Its no longer as available as in the 70s and quality has become an issue as well..

Re: The RAZOR [Re: Stewart] #205882
03/17/10 05:38 AM
03/17/10 05:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
phill Offline OP

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phill  Offline OP

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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
Like Stewart says!
Apart from basic skills the biggest problem would be getting good quality ply. The stuff coming out of China may not be so good but there is a French company still making the good stuff. You really would be better off getting BS1088 quality ply. Read the specs and check the ply yourself to make sure it conforms before buying.
Alternatively you could use the same method and build from foam sandwich.
Good luck.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: The RAZOR [Re: Stewart] #205883
03/17/10 05:45 AM
03/17/10 05:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
DanTnz Offline
journeyman
DanTnz  Offline
journeyman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 69
Live in Germany, House in UK, ...
Originally Posted by Stewart
What many forget is ply was the most advanced high tech solution, (and with the correct skills, still is), up till the Kiwi's (Jennifer Julian) started using cores in glass boats.. The US & Europe were at that time using solid glass boats or cold molding.. The impoverished kiwis and Aussies builders could not afford the expensive materials of resin and glass. er But what they did have is many learnt the trade of building Aussie and kiwi WW2 planes. And good supplies of quality ply.


If you look around there are pages and pages of historical documents of well build offshore races built out of ply.. So the answer.. is yes a 8.5 meter cat could be built from ply if the builder has a good skill set and ply is available.. Its no longer as available as in the 70s and quality has become an issue as well..


Don't mean to thread hijack but ply 8.5s are still being built, from reading the forums at crew.org.nz a ply boat 'atttude' is one of the fastest and lightest.

You don't fancy designing an 8.5 Phill, I hear there is some interest in Oz!

Last edited by DanTnz; 03/17/10 06:52 AM. Reason: correct website address
Re: The RAZOR [Re: DanTnz] #205885
03/17/10 06:21 AM
03/17/10 06:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
phill Offline OP

veteran
phill  Offline OP

veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,446
An 8.5 would be fun.


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: The RAZOR [Re: phill] #205891
03/17/10 07:28 AM
03/17/10 07:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
X
xuraax Offline
stranger
xuraax  Offline
stranger
X
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
I need no convincing that good ply is still a good way to build boats. I own a self build Micro and despite the fact that it is now 15 years old it requires very little maintenance.

The reason I wrote earlier is that I would like to build a larger more modern design but I would prefer to avoid double diagonal or strip building.

Indeed I do know about the efforts in NZ and am particularly impressed with "Attitude" which I understand is built from stressed ply.

Unfortunately I could find very little info about their building methods on the WWW so if Phil decides to take on the project I would very likely be interested.

Regards

Re: The RAZOR [Re: xuraax] #205979
03/17/10 09:52 PM
03/17/10 09:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
old hand
ncik  Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
http://perverted-moth.blogspot.com/

basically a ply construction, but with carbon foam sandwich panels instead.

Re: The RAZOR [Re: xuraax] #205980
03/17/10 10:03 PM
03/17/10 10:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
old hand
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
There was a boat here (think she is in Sydney? now) called wings. a 36'foot stressed ply river racer.. Basically a ply 18' skiff with the wings stretched to 36'. Very quick..
The only issue with ply is compound curves..

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