| Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: Poison Girl]
#206164 03/19/10 03:51 PM 03/19/10 03:51 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
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Posts: 1,203 uk | Do you mean the european iF20 rules? the ones that the inter 20 and the hobie fox were designed around? I have them on paper
Paul
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| | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#206394 03/22/10 10:34 PM 03/22/10 10:34 PM |
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10 Texas Poison Girl OP
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Posts: 10 Texas | Yes, that would be a start! Would you mind typing them up, citing where your information is from (sorry, I'm not trying to put a research paper on you) and posting them? If there are no rules available here in the States, then we will have to go with the European F2o rules and take it from there. For example, where did you acquire your copy of the F20 rules? We need a foundation for F20 in the U.S. Many thanks.
Last edited by Poison Girl; 03/22/10 10:35 PM.
| | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: Poison Girl]
#206502 03/24/10 09:00 AM 03/24/10 09:00 AM |
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Posts: 1,203 uk | Its about 20 pages downloaded from the old iF20 association website, so i am not in a rush to type them out, but i might try and get them uploaded to the website when i find someone that can!
Pretty similar stuff to the F18 rules, just with different measurements that now won't fit any boat.
Your best bet is to take the up to date F18 rules and tweak them to fit what you want.
Paul
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| | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: Poison Girl]
#210059 05/02/10 09:22 AM 05/02/10 09:22 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 96 Carl
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Posts: 96 | Hello Many tried to get the foundations of a F 20 class going but the main problem was the Inter 20 in the US which was the predominant 20 for years was very different from the H Fox which was designed to the F 20 EURO based CLASS RULE . The inter 20 had 15 more sq ft of sail area in a larger sq top main sail - was 30 to 40 lbs lighter --and had other minor advantages . I think the new 20 ft cat by NACRA may be a better basis of basic sail area --beam --weight and length from which to establish a F 20 class of the future . Many design based rules and classes are based on what is refered to as a basic BOX RULE --the sides of the box being basic class dimentions measurements and specifications of length --20 ft --beam ? --sail area ?--min weight ?. Other tops and bottoms of the box can be added from there with fold overs added ;] HERE IS SOME BASIC INFO ON THE NEW 20 FT CAT Here is a link to the Texel ratings site: http://www.waterspor...29&mid=&mnu=241Then click on the link "complete list with all details." Here is a link to the Schrs site: http://www.schrs.com/ratings.phpTo find out the specific rated measurements for a class click on the class name. In Europe a ready to sail F20 C comes in at around €7,000(including tax) less than a ready to sail Marstrom Tornado! http://www.nacra.co.uk/Nacra_UK_Home.html | | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: Carl]
#210153 05/03/10 11:37 PM 05/03/10 11:37 PM |
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10 Texas Poison Girl OP
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Posts: 10 Texas | I see the differences you point out in the Nacra 20 vs. the Fox. However, the Nacra 20 seems to be the predominant 20-foot catamaran competing in regattas in the United States and has been for the last decade. It doesn't look like that will change any time soon.
To establish United States Formula-20 Class specifications I am looking at simplicity. Let's start with sail area. I have seen several posts rating the Nacra 20’s sail area somewhere between 192-194 sq. ft. for the main sail (without mast), 53-57 sq. ft. for the jib, and 270 sq. ft. for the spinnaker. This appears to be an accurate perception based on what I’ve seen except for the jib, which I feel tends to be closer to 53 sq. ft. Is there anyone that would like to chime in on these specs for a proposed F-20 class in America?
Also, I found an old post of interest. It comes from a member named “Sail6000” in 2001. I thought it might provide some insight, although like I said I suggest we establish a sail area similar to what is described above and move on from there.
“-It has been recommended to base the class largely on existing Inter 20 specifications –of main sail 208 –jib 53sq ft. spin 270 sq. ft. as a guideline with more than 200 existing in the U S presently.
-SAIL AREA notes; -All designs may trade equal amounts of sail area from main to jib to allow sail plan design options and existing modification. -All teams will be allowed one additional sail of each type.for any race or regatta as a replacement,. -All sails to be labeled per size in 2 inch easily readable form at the tack next to the sail makers logo, all new sails to be listed and signed over the sq. ft 2 inch sq. ft. number per sail maker. Roller furling sails and reef points for the main are allowed, as is the spin snuffer.”
Rationale: I have been looking around the Internet and have found, essentially, no discussion about the F-20 class pertaining to the United States. Yet there are many sailors of 20-ft. cats looking to join an F-20 class. The F-18 sailors have had much success at this, but the bigger guys (like myself) who enjoy cat sailing are limited. Why should such limitations exist? F-20 rules can and should apply much like F-18 rules.
“Sail6000” posted some notes about crew weight which I deleted from his post because, based on the development of the F-18 class, seem irrelevant in 2010. It’s up to the sailors to maintain their maximum efficiency sailing weight.
I would like to hear anyone’s thoughts on the suggested sail area specifications.
Mike Team Poison Girl
| | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: cyberspeed]
#210662 05/10/10 05:52 PM 05/10/10 05:52 PM |
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10 Texas Poison Girl OP
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Posts: 10 Texas | As per your quote, Carl, "I think you are on the right track and should just float a trial very basic set of formula 20 rules based on more updated newer designs being able to fit within it" I think you're right and that's the way to go.
It should be flexible enough to allow boats that are out there today. As a rule, we should go with an 11' beam (or is there a motion to make it 12'?) to allow the new F20 Carbon, but I noticed on the link sent by Cyberspeed that the sail area on the new Nacra F20 is 226 sq. ft. The sail area on my Inter-20 is about 192 sq. ft (without the mast), so is the 226 number on the F20 Carbon with or without the mast? Does anyone know?
I imagine the Carbon would blow the Inter 20 away for several reasons, including the additonal roughly 32 sf of spin area. But I'll propose that we worry about that when Carbons start showing up in the U.S. on a regular basis.
There's some Inter-20 sailors I know here in Texas who are unhappy with main sails coming from E/P these days, thus the movement to go to F-20. "Stay within the specs and get your sails where you want."
Last edited by Poison Girl; 05/10/10 05:57 PM.
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