| Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: cyberspeed]
#213269 06/09/10 12:21 PM 06/09/10 12:21 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I'm just throwing this out there for discussion - I haven't put much thought behind it.
What if you developed the IYRU B-class catamaran rule (where the Tornado started)? Does it need to be as restrictive as F18 or would the 10 item long A-cat-like rule set work?
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: cyberspeed]
#214315 06/22/10 05:20 AM 06/22/10 05:20 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | Original B Class spec:
Length 20' Width 10' Sail Area 235 square feet Crew 2
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: Jalani]
#214343 06/22/10 10:12 AM 06/22/10 10:12 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | One more attempt to focus the discussion., (having played in the past only to see the effort fall apart which drives the question... what did I miss)
Why do you want a Formula 20 rules set.... Obvious answer... to establish the conditions for FAIR RACING between 20's of different builders.
Next question... What races or regattas do you want to compete in?
The major distance races are contested now on measurement handicap... most view this as fair.... especially given the unique circumstances of any particular distance race.. (The old horses for courses argument). Why would a formula 20 rule improve this kind of racing...(versus the limitations it would impose on design) How many 20's are racing these days in the big distance races that would even be interested in a formula rule race replacing handicap.
Bottom Line Question... Why do you need a Formula class rule for Distance racing?
Seems to me... you only need a formula rule for short course buoy racing... (See F18, A class and C Class racing) The critical mass problem of getting enough boats to one event is enormous (see C class racing)... Only the 18 footers have solved the problem of numbers...
The Fair racing problem and participation in short courses has been solved by SMOD one designs (VX40, Decision 32, and the xxx27's) These purpose built boats are meant to compete in one circuit. The 20 footers HAD the Tornado with spin as the gran prix class (and now it is one design). ... but without the olympics... it's cratered. This evidence supports my point that it's the EVENTS which drive a class not the boat itself
I don't care how neat the boats are... it's the race or circuit which drives interest in the boat class. EG... the America's Cup drove all of the interest in the boats... Consider how limited the interest was in the maxi tri's out there breaking world records.... So... Amerca's Cup > XXX round the world > trans atlantic record. There is no obvious circuit for a F20 class
My point.... Given the investment... Why would a formula rule at the 20 foot level generate more interest in short course racing?... Or put another way... How much better would short course racing be over handicap or level racing given the numbers?
I answered the question and came to the conclusion that the F20 rule was simply too close to the f18's in experience and culture.. and you could just not make a strong case for a F20 rule.
So, without a good reason for existing... a class of people interested in pushing a F20 rule class just never materializes. The formmula 20 rule is simply a tool.... With out agreement on what the racers want to build.... even a perfectly marvelous rule will go unused.
Your milage may vary
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: cyberspeed]
#215113 07/01/10 01:07 PM 07/01/10 01:07 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | So we agree that specific races are driving the interest in a formula 20 class.
I suspect that the Tybee would allow an open class if you had 5 boats interested. Moreover, I believe the racing would be fairer on a measurement handicap rule then fitting your existing boats into a formula box and asserting that the racing will be fair under the formula.
Remember, The proof of a formula rule is on the water and knowing that it's fair is a precondition to getting good participation for an expensive to compete distance race. The F18 rule is proving to be fair, Even the very pro development A Class formula rule is proving to be pretty fair... a (Flyer I pulled a top 10 finish in a Race at the worlds. The F16 rule on the other hand generates controversy and boats that have different ratings.... time will tell if the controversy that we see now is just noise or the rules need tweaking. I don't think you can underestimate the need for boats allowed under the rule to actually BE level.... not just mathematically equivalent.... otherwise... your race turns into a tour.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Formula 20 Class Rules
[Re: cyberspeed]
#219563 09/14/10 01:36 PM 09/14/10 01:36 PM |
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 1 halfcat
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1 | I've owned a Supercat 20, 12ft beam and a nacra 18sq, 11 ft beam. I'm a bigger guy than the f-18 skippers usually are and I think a wider beam (12') 20 foot cat is a great platform. I just saw the 2nd Nacra 20 Carbon to come to the US up close this past weekend and I think a box rule that is a maximum (less than max ok) is a good idea, with a simple list of rules like the a-cat it will foster development.
Last edited by halfcat; 09/14/10 01:37 PM.
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