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2010 F18 Rules Published #209163
04/22/10 08:21 AM
04/22/10 08:21 AM
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Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline OP
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2010 F18 Rules

If you are an F18 Fleet Measurer you will want to take a look at the new drawings they are considerably more helpful than the old set.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: David Ingram] #209300
04/22/10 08:40 PM
04/22/10 08:40 PM
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Dazz Offline
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Thanks for that Dave,

I thought this was interesting:

(b) The cross section of each centreboard/daggerboard shall be symmetrical about its fore and aft centre line.

so that means we can have curved boards as long as we use symmetrical shapes like nacra's f20.

I also note we are allowed to use dyform diamonds, does anyone actually use them?


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Dazz] #209326
04/23/10 07:30 AM
04/23/10 07:30 AM
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David Ingram Offline OP
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It doesn't look like dyform is permitted to me. What are you seeing that indicates dyform diamonds are allowed?


F.6 STANDING RIGGING
F.6.1 MATERIALS
(a) The standing rigging shall be of stainless steel.
(b) Fittings may be made from or include carbon fibre in their construction.
20 International Formula 18 Class Rules 2010
F.6.2 CONSTRUCTION
(a) MANDATORY
(1) A forestay and bridles of 1 x19 or 1 x 7 stranded wire of minimum
diameter of 3mm.
(2) Shrouds of 1 x 19 or 1 x 7 stranded wire of minimum diameter of
3mm.
(3) Trapeze wires of stranded wire and minimum diameter of 2.5mm.
(4) Dyform® or similar construction is prohibited.
(b) OPTIONAL
(1) A pair of diamond wires


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: David Ingram] #209327
04/23/10 07:44 AM
04/23/10 07:44 AM
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C.5 PORTABLE EQUIPMENT
C.5.1 FOR USE
(b) OPTIONAL
(3) Electronic devices that provide timing, heading, and heading
memory but which do not transmit or receive data.


Does a GPS fall under this category?
I guess this rules out Velocitek and similar devices? (At least while racing anyway).
Was thinking of getting one so that would be to bad.

Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Tony_F18] #209330
04/23/10 07:56 AM
04/23/10 07:56 AM
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David Ingram Offline OP
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Yes a GPS receives data the same way the velocitek device does so it's out, please notice item (4) in the same section that allows an NOR to permit the devices for long distance races.

4) When required by the Notice of Race for long distance courses,
organisers may require further equipment, such as VHF, mobile
phone, GPS or tracking devices, Emergency Positioning Indicating
radio beacons (EPIRB) devices, knife, mirror, whistle, flares,
flashlights, first aid set.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: David Ingram] #209355
04/23/10 09:40 AM
04/23/10 09:40 AM
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Dazz Offline
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(b) OPTIONAL
(1) A pair of diamond wires

Diamond wires are not compulsory, and there fore not part of the standing rigging. is that not fair?


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Dazz] #209356
04/23/10 09:48 AM
04/23/10 09:48 AM
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David Ingram Offline OP
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But if they are on the mast wouldn't they then be considered standing rigging?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: David Ingram] #209357
04/23/10 10:04 AM
04/23/10 10:04 AM
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Dazz Offline
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rigging, the wires, ropes, and chains employed to support and operate the masts, yards, booms, and sails of a vessel. Standing rigging is semipermanent, consisting mainly of mast supports, the fore-and-aft stays, and the stays running from the masthead to each side of the vessel. Running rigging includes the ropes, blocks, and other apparatus needed to brace the yards, make or take in sails, and hoist cargo

Most definitions seem to say standing rigging is stays and shrouds.

The Australian slang dictionary says standing rigging = time wasting...


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Dazz] #209358
04/23/10 10:08 AM
04/23/10 10:08 AM
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David Ingram Offline OP
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I've sent this question along with several others to the World Council for clarification. Things like this need to be crystal clear.

Additionally since diamond wires are specifically referenced in the standing rigging section of the rules I would interpret the intent of the rule to say if diamonds are on the boat they are considered standing rigging and therefore not permitted to be Dyform. My 2 cents.

Last edited by David Ingram; 04/23/10 10:19 AM. Reason: Had more to say

David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: David Ingram] #209360
04/23/10 10:17 AM
04/23/10 10:17 AM
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good work Dave!

I think if they wanted to ban dyform then they need a (2) Dyform® or similar construction is prohibited. in the diamond wire section. Because it is outside the mandatory section.



C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Dazz] #209361
04/23/10 10:20 AM
04/23/10 10:20 AM
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David Ingram Offline OP
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I agree, wiggle room always leads to issues down the road.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: David Ingram] #209409
04/23/10 07:15 PM
04/23/10 07:15 PM
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Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Yes a GPS receives data the same way the velocitek device does so it's out, please notice item (4) in the same section that allows an NOR to permit the devices for long distance races.



Does a GPS actually recieve a signal telling the unit where it is? I thought it worked kinda like a VOR and triangulated its self off of radians from a whole mess of satellites.

Grey area I know, but....

Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Karl_Brogger] #209413
04/23/10 08:39 PM
04/23/10 08:39 PM
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Global Positioning System satellites transmit signals to equipment on the ground. GPS receivers passively receive satellite signals; they do not transmit. GPS receivers require an unobstructed view of the sky, so they are used only outdoors and they often do not perform well within forested areas or near tall buildings. GPS operations depend on a very accurate time reference, which is provided by atomic clocks at the U.S. Naval Observatory. Each GPS satellite has atomic clocks on board.


There you go Karl, you learn something every day!



C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Karl_Brogger] #209430
04/24/10 09:05 AM
04/24/10 09:05 AM
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David Ingram Offline OP
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David Ingram  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Yes a GPS receives data the same way the velocitek device does so it's out, please notice item (4) in the same section that allows an NOR to permit the devices for long distance races.



Does a GPS actually recieve a signal telling the unit where it is? I thought it worked kinda like a VOR and triangulated its self off of radians from a whole mess of satellites.

Grey area I know, but....


It receives data and uses it, that alone makes it pretty clear to me. You just have to ask yourself does the device work without the "data" it receives?

The rules also call the GPS out as something that 'could be' allowed on distance races if it was so stated in the NOR. Again, this one isn't grey.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: David Ingram] #209463
04/25/10 01:29 AM
04/25/10 01:29 AM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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But a sextant would be ok right? grin

Re: 2010 F18 Rules Published [Re: Tony_F18] #209525
04/26/10 10:33 AM
04/26/10 10:33 AM
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2017 F18 Americas Site
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on the subject of sending and receiving data it seems as though a VHF is out for racing. I did not think about it until the attachment regarding long distance races equipment when it spelled that device out.

After that I realized that per David's definition. If it did not receive data would it work. I think the answer is no.

Could we also include this in some of the questions to F18 Org Authority?

Later,
Dan

Re: 2010 F18 Rules Published [Re: Dan_Delave] #209548
04/26/10 02:14 PM
04/26/10 02:14 PM
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David Ingram Offline OP
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I just had a chat with the International Class President.

The intent of the 2010 rules was to get them into into SCR format and not to change any of the rules contained within.

Dyform is still out, the idea to try and control costs. Yes I know this the line in the sand and can be debated.

You can change rig tension while NOT racing. I have to send a request through the ISAF process to get the wording made more precise.

VHF for buoy racing is still out, reason being outside assistance could be had and cannot be regulated, same goes for iphones and other similar devices.

1 steering compass is required, this rule is unchanged.

1 tow line 15m long 6mm diameter is required, this rule is unchanged. I still don't know if the main sheet or other similar sheet can double as tow line, that answer is still pending. Can someone tell me if this is something that is checked at Worlds, has anyone ever been tossed for not having a tow line?




David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Published [Re: David Ingram] #209561
04/26/10 03:19 PM
04/26/10 03:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
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Dan_Delave Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Can someone tell me if this is something that is checked at Worlds, has anyone ever been tossed for not having a tow line?

At the Worlds in France they were going to toss you for any rule that you did not meet. There was a run on paddles and compasses at all the sailing related stores, and they ran critically low on lead weights at the dive store. At that time they were able to use the main halyard as a tow line providing it was 5mm. I do not think that is allowed anymore, as they were going to discuss that at the follow up meeting. I would place money that the tow line is needed this year. I remember it was required to be 5mm then. It is 6mm now, but still the same 15 meters. There were teams tossed that came in 1 kg light after racing all day. I would not tempt them.

Later,
Dan

Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Karl_Brogger] #209646
04/27/10 03:44 PM
04/27/10 03:44 PM

A
andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Yes a GPS receives data the same way the velocitek device does so it's out, please notice item (4) in the same section that allows an NOR to permit the devices for long distance races.



Does a GPS actually recieve a signal telling the unit where it is? I thought it worked kinda like a VOR and triangulated its self off of radians from a whole mess of satellites.

Grey area I know, but....


Get (your viper lovin butt) back to the F16 forum~!

just kiddin, but you had it comin since you kicked me out of the hobie forum!

Last edited by andrewscott; 04/28/10 11:31 AM.
Re: 2010 F18 Rules Publised [Re: Tony_F18] #209647
04/27/10 03:45 PM
04/27/10 03:45 PM

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andrewscott
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
But a sextant would be ok right? grin


Only for night races

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