Hi F18-Community,

we had a Hobie Wildcat build 2009 to test it out for five days now. My sailing-mate is/was seriously thinking about buying it.

1. By putting the boat together we found 40 to 50cm long hairline cracks in the edges of the inside sprayrails where the forestay wires are fixed.

2. My friend had to walk to the front on the hull while sailing. We both heard a cracking noise when he made one step. No visible damage.

3. At the end of our testing period - 40 hours, up to 5 Bt - we now found three bubbles one already open nearby the forestay connection of one hull. At the open bubble one can see that the gelcoat and the fibre are not connected properly.

4. If you put power on the mainsail by setting the main block under mid to strong tension one can see the two forestay holders in the hull inside coming out some millimeters.

Are this known "teething probs" or has anyone heard how Hobie treats the issue? My friend is really down now because we had fantastic sailing days with the boat. It sails like a rocket and moves great. Especially the downwind directions the boat seems to have no limitations at all and goes, goes, goes. But we have lost confidence. The dealer gave no satisfying answer yet and wants to talk with Hobie first.

Thanks for reading and your comments.

Bye, LF

I think the problem you are describing is highly unusual, as far as I know there are no known hull problems with the Wildcat.
Could it be that this happened while handling the boat?
Maybe overtightened trailer straps?

Could you post some pictures of the damage?
Thx.

Hi, the WC was fixed on the trailer with straps without ratchmatic so I don't think that there was a problem.

But look at the pics please. Its the inside front part of the left hull. On the other hull its pretty similar. Excuse the poor quality. Maybe you have to move your viewing angle to recognize all.

Cheers, Uli

PS: The forumsoftware seems to downsize the pics. Here are the URLs for those among you who want to see the original size ;-)

http://www.fade.de/catamaran/wildcat/wildcat001.JPG
http://www.fade.de/catamaran/wildcat/wildcat002.JPG
http://www.fade.de/catamaran/wildcat/wildcat007.JPG

I know of one that the port hull has a pretty significant structural issue. As tension was applied to the mainsail a crack would open up at the spray rail. This boat was taken to a fiber glass repair shop and it turns out that the bulk heads had split.

From what I have been told Hobie was taking care of repairing this boat. I have not heard of this happening anywhere else.

Nice boat to sail, but really badly built! I know one that had it's bulkhead fall out, and another boat builder told me that after doing some repair work on one they were the worst built cat hes ever seen, total other end of the spectrum to the Tiger. If you are going to buy one i think you should only buy a new one and even then i'd be cautious.

I'd buy a Capricorn or a C2 the build quality is excellent and the factory support is superb.

Sounds like you should go straight to a dealer to get your issue correctly assessed. Posting things like this on a forum where it's next to impossible to properly diagnose via pics will only yield incendiary and unhelpful comments like the two above.

If you need help locating a dealer, send me an email and I am happy to assist.
Good luck getting it all sorted.

Ain't that the truth!

Since Hobie Cat has the highest reputation in the industry for warranty and technical support... it will be taken care of. We are also the only brand in the market with an actual dealer network, so access to support is far easier than for those purchasing from garage dealers and importers direct.

Hobie Cat France has responsibility for this product and has been in contact with Jacques concerning any issues with the Wild Cat.

As Jeremy said... contact your dealer with any concerns.

It is never a good idea to buy the first of anything, let some one else work out the bugs and capitalize on their experience.

I cannot find it now but there was a website devoted to the manufacturing defects in hobie tigers. It's a bit vague in my mind now but there were plenty of issues around leaking hulls as i seem to recall.

not much help I know...

There are issues with all the new boats. Most of them are good but some off the line have problems. Here depending on who you ask and what they sail will influence the answers.
The problems were there on the Tiger. They are there on the C2. They are there on the Wildcat. They were there on the Infusion.

The question is if you buy a boat that has a flaw will the dealer fix it? My personal experience with Hobie and Surf City Catamarans is yes. Both the C2 and Wildcat came to full production really quick a few flaws don't suprise me.

Now shouldn't we save the boat bashing and making fun of other boats for the F-16 class?

Just my thoughts.

Your right of course Rich, the only thing is i cant make up my mind which boat to make fun of, the f-16 or the 104 pretending to be a f-16 or is that the f-16 pretending to be a 104... its just so confusing.. I give up!

I'm a manufacturing geek.
And I can tell you that the factory desires feedback.
Forums are great if you're looking for history on an old class or brand.
But something as new as the Wildcat will have been built with fresh ideas. The last thing any Operations Leader wants is to hear of a defect and not be able to analyze and implement a corrective action.
You'll get 1st class attention if you contact the factory with your data.

I think things like this should be posted on this forum simply to let us know about issues. That's what this forum is for. Hobie is great about taking care of issues but these issues should have been worked out in the first place before boats were sold.
One Wildcat here in Texas had the same issues. The bridle tang started pulling out of the Port hull. There will be two Wildcats racing in the GT this year, this will be a good test for the boats.
On a somewhat related note: I was recently replacing a comptip on a H16 mast and the replacement one that was just shipped from Hobie came with damage. It was clearly damaged before it was packaged up ( I guess nobody looks them over before wraping them in bubble wrap.) I thought this was a minor oversight. Hobie sends a new one. It came with the same kind of damage in the same exact spot. I know it wasn't the same one because the damage was slightly different. Hobie was good about taking care of the whole situation.

Whats so funny about the F 16's?

Karl Brogger's "squid pig" totally fun and brilliant at the same time!

Miller,

I don't paticularly think this is good form, I find it rather insulting that if you honestly belive that thj this is true.

this comment has particularly insulted our North american distributer who has worked extreemly hard to support the F18 and F16 classes regardless of build.
I have been asked to post this on their behalf as they are still packing up after supplying boat for the Alter Cup.

“I am getting a bit tired of this type of complete misguided information.
I am also pretty sure that Nacra would not take too kindly to that either.

For information sake. We have 5 dealers in the US. We have an excellent warranted program that we have not had to take too much advantage of since we have excellent quality control from the beginning. Not to say we will never have a problem, but we stay on top of that. We keep close to 150k in stock on hand in the US for mediate delivery and have delivered 15 of the 16 new C2s into a depressed economy in the US alone.

We have had 2 of the top Hobie sailors join our family to handle the popularity explosion in Europe with 2B sailing...Carlyn and Darren.
We have sponsored boats for the Alter Cup 3 years in a row and are committed for 2011. In addition, we are supplying Vipers to the youth championships right before the Alter Cup next year.

AHPC, its North American distributor, Fun in the Sun and its dealers in San Diego-Long Beach, Omaha, Memphis, Fairfield-NE, Nova Scotia are primary sponsor of the North American Championships (something I only hope the other manufactures will step up to the same level).

We have the only full service including coaching for ALL sailors out there with Red Gear Racing.

We have more 2010 C2s in the US than Hobie and Nacra put together. AHPC had close to half the fleet at last years world in belgium.

So all and all I think these people need to focus their efforts on supporting an industry instead of constantly trying to tell everyone we don't exist. Let's just work on building the sport. I am not going to participate in negative politicking. The sailors are smarter than that and the proof is in the pudding. We can not order our boats fast enough. People see the quality and the service and naturally want to be a part of it.

If anyone has any questions or concerns I invite them to contact me at 727-734-0799. ""

"We have the only full service including coaching for ALL sailors out there with Red Gear Racing. "

+1

+2

AHPC is a top company and I think makes a great product and has great support. Greg sails at a lot of the us regattas and always is willing to help out. I don't even own a AHPC product but sure can see the devotion Greg puts into the company. I think Matt needs to get his facts straight.

Are we going to respond to everything we read that is wrong now?
IMHO factory support is only as good as your local dealer.

The fact is, if you have an issue with a product, you are obliged to contact your supplier and give him an opportunity to rectify it before you post here and get all of us know-it-alls involved.

That's exactly the point. I'm happy that mine is less than 100km away and races the same regattas like me.
However, I'd like to know (on this forum) if there is an issue concerning my boat, regardless if it is new or a few years old. With this help, I can examine my boat accordingly and act before the issue becomes a problem.

Kai

I agree that knowing manufacturing defects is a major plus imo when boat shopping, it lets people know what to look for in a new or used boat. I am also confident that the big 3 builders will handle the issue in the proper manner, and posting on a forum isn't going to hurt individual support.

To this end, I would like to point out that the Wildcat entered in this years Tybee broke an average of 1 daggerboard per day. Hobie is supposed to inspect the broken boards in order to strengthen them etc. No other major issues with the boat to my knowledge. '

Finally, how much real structural analysis (Ansys etc.) is being applied to these boats? AHPC supposedly does a lot, what about the other manufacturers?

I agree about knowing the defects, there was a thread a while back about the bridal tang pulling out of a 5yr old Infusion in Europe and the manufacturer was making the owner pay for the repair.

The Wildcat Dagger problem was in most part due to high speed runs over shallow water from what I heard. I also Agree that the boat, builder, and dealer are all a team. I would feel confident on purchasing ant of the top 3 right now. My problem is the tiller nut always slows me down no matter what boat I'm on.

Be worried if they have a replacement for that, unless you are the crew.

In Europe, under CE Certification regulations, any manufacturer, be it Hobie, Nacra, AHPC or ??? are required to warranty their product for 2 years.

Problems like this should be taken directly to the dealer &/or manufacturer so that it and future issues like it can be rectified quickly.... After all, continual warranty issues will cost the manufacturer much more than it will ever cost any customer!!!

I agree with Matt Miller in that this forum is not the place for such grievances .... but there is no need to hit out at other manufacturers in defending your company

With regard to letting people know of faults... then keep an eye on the manufacturers websites. Any known faults or warnings should be posted here... For example, check out Urgent update for current customers!!

If it was 5 years old, it wasn't an infusion!!!

I expect that the owner went moaning on a forum before approaching the manufacturer, what was in it for the manufacturer after that?

I do not consider my comments "hitting out" at other products or "defending" our company. My comments were in response to the concerned owner of a Wild Cat with an apparent issue. By letting this consumer know that we stand strongly behind our products with our factories and dealer networks here in the US, Europe and Australia as well as other regions in the World. Proof is in the history of quality and support... not the promotion of a product. We are understandably proud of our history and strong growth in an industry that has declined sharply over many years. Our success has been due to a strong sense of commitment to product development, quality, support and diversification of our product range. Its a good thing for our consumers... and yes, we welcome the development of competitive products as good for the industry and the sport.

Matt, I agree with you. Hobie has a fabulous reputation, and you should be proud of its history, growth, and customer support. That is fabulous, however, I believe that your statement



can only be taken as a very big insult to other manufacturers.... and will only lead to a slinging match... (Looks like AHPC have already taken offence according to Brett Goodall's comments)

Stating Hobie's position on customer support is great and I do not think anyone will dispute this. However, there was absolutely no need to refer to other manufacturers in your initial comment... Hobie does have a good dealer network.... FACT... Why compare it to others???

I heard a good explanation of this recently, and its better to ask why they talk down others, instead of talking up their own product. True for any industry.

on that note:
Hobie Cat US is really good about parts as long as its for one of their boats, if you own a HCE boat.......

Hey LF,

Did you get your hull assessed at and dealt with? Let me know if you need anything else.

http://www.f18.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=46

"Nacra introduces a new Nacra in 2006, the Nacra F18 Infusion."

So should the boat be under warranty or not?

Wait is this Catsailor or Sailing anarchy?

You are right... sorry guys. I just got caught up in the moment with those guys, earlier in the thread, slinging mud our way. I took offense to the Nacra guy slammin our build quality and the C2 guy piping up about buying a C2 and their great factory support... this was a thread about a Hobie guy with an issue. Same story here at Catsailor... different day. Everyone likes to jump in.

quote] Everyone likes to jump in. [/quote]

A priviledge that should be reserved for you alone?

Uhhh... its a Hobie thread? Remember way back at the beginning? I think it might be expected for me to jump in. I've got no problem with others doing the same, but being helpful is always better.

Same question.

Just sometimes I wish we had moderators

Why not get some? Oh wait- we have some on the F16 forum but it hasn't seemed to help much ;-o

And now it's official...

Don, is that a hobie or nacra snuffer? I get the two confused!

I am not liking the way some people perceive these forums as "their" forums.

Dazz,
I believe the gentleman was referring to the thread, and not the Forum.



Dennis Key makes a nice snuffer for any brand - http://www.gobarefootstudio.com/snu_08.html
So I'm going to guess the one in the picture is from the Capricorn that Dennis has as a background shot.

Don, I know.. just so many pedantic posts.. probably myself included.

That SNU looks like an updated model... from the website the price looks updated too! ouchies!

Pricing was updated to include shipping in the US and some additional materials in the latest generation. Still a great deal when priced against replacement stock parts.

I was just about to drill and rivet my SNU to the pole. Is that a bad idea?

Don't do it. It's not necessary. Just wrapping with a few sections of vinyl tape works fine.

We've also found it works best if mounted forward, to the point where the first velcro strip is in front of the bridle. I'll try to find a picture.

The C2 is a bit different, Don - they went with a two-patch spinnaker, which means the bag is a little longer (92-inches instead of 78).

Bob, your SNU does not need to be riveted on. You can do it if you want, of course, but it really isn't necessary. Three zip ties and seven wraps of electrical tape over each tie. Dennis has an instructional video that is in post-production now. Your bag will extend aft past the front beam. I'll get some pics for you.

I don't like the idea of that John, the downhaul will cut a hole in the top of the bag. TA did that to my boat, when I got the new bag I put it back to the standard length. no more holes!

And so are the guys that sail them...

Hi Dazz -

A pic will resolve the issue... the bag passes aft on the port side of the post - a straight shot to the retrieval hole in the tramp. The cunningham passes through the tramp at the front beam on the starboard side of the mast. None of the cunningham lines contact the spinnaker bag.

With a two-patch spin, the standard bag isn't an option - you have to have a bit more length.

Hey, let's let this thread die. I'll post pics of the SNU on a C2 in a new thread later.

Hi everbody, please excuse me for answering that late - i was abroad - but as I see did you entertain well with lots of off-topic ;-)

So, what happened?

Nothing.

My friend will not buy this boat. The dealer was pretty concerned but didn't offer the from our point of view only solution: changing both hulls. In fact he didn't make any offer until now. So time goes by and we are going to Texel with my old I18 and forget about Hobies 2009 Wildcats.

Cordially, Uli

IMHO replacing both hulls is an extreme measure and I doubt many dealers would have gone along with that.
I also don't see why once professionally repaired it wouldn't hold up for many more years.

You are right Tony,

but if you would have seen and heard these hulls I'm sure that you would have the same opinion. Maybe they repair these two specific places on each hull nicely. But what happens in one, two or more years in other areas of these poor quality hulls?

You know what I thought Hobie would handle the case? Taking these hulls out of public immediatly, examine them, let them disappear and put new ones one the boat.

Bye, Uli

Sorry Paul it was a Nacra F18 here's the link to the thread.
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubb...;Main=17277&Number=189842#Post189842
It's still good to know about problems that happen so that I can look at the area's on boats before purchase

If I paid the money the dealers are asking for the new F18's I would want new hulls too (if I bought the boat new). You even say" you don't see why once professionally repaired it wouldn't hold up for many more years" that means you have doubt about how long it will last.

I think this guy's name is Two-patch Spinny...

A friend of yours JW?

I'm not a native speaker so maybe I wasn't being clear enough.
A proper repair job could make it stronger then it ever was before.

According to my math the boat is one year old: 2010-2009=1.
I guess this means we are not talking about a new boat here but a used one.

The hulls will be send to Hobie factory now. So the boat probably will not be ready for sailing for weeks or so - no matter what they do with the hulls.

Anyway, I don't want to pick too much on Hobie. The boat is a awesome speed machine and we unfortunately had one of the "Beta-Boats". (has a low double digit sailnumber)

Bye, Uli

End of season is very close here now so lets finish this story too. Somebody who is often at that Hobie shop recently told me that the boat will get both hulls new.

SRY thats only third party info but I'm on the nacra side of the force *g*