""Perhaps the F16 class should look beyond their class as just a class, but more of a business."

My comments still stand as written; those on the outside are attempting to fix a problem that doesn't exist. The class was carefully set up to meet the desires of the sailors who created it, and those looking for a similar solution. It is doing all that it was created to do...which again is “to satisfy the desires of the sailors who created it”...

Those who want to "fix it" have a different set of goals...Manufactures who choose not to abide by the weight minimum rules...pro sailors who look at it as another class to utilize to subsidize their professional sailing career. You don’t have to be Sherlock Homes to discern their motivation.

So when the veil is lifted...The F16 owners/sailors, and current manufactures (such as the Blade, Falcon, Stealth, who are doing everything in their power to build the boat to maximize the box rules) are very happy with the rules as written. Those who want to modify the rules are more concerned with manipulating the class into what works to their advantage. Trying to reason with the "we have to save you from yourself" mindset is exhausting.

Hi John,

The concept of the Taipan was mainly born out of the work that they had been doing on the A-Class in the early to mid 80's, however, at that time Greg and Jim were also sailing Mosquitoes, and Tornadoes. So I suppose they combined all this knowledge into the Taipan. It was not merely a cut down MkIII A-Class, however, I believe it was close to that. In those days boats were being built in ply, so it was very easy to make modifications on the run.

Yes, you are right in saying that it was originally proposed to the Mosquito Class as a Mosquito Mk III, however, the Mosquito Association were not willing to come to the party. Jim ended up finding the new name... TAIPAN. And I suppose the snake theme has stuck.

Oooooo Those 1982 nationals.... Hot with plenty of MUD. There was water in the basin then... A lot more than we can say now a days!!

Thanks for you honest answer

Now why don't you ask youreslf the following questions.

What are the F16 classes STRENGTHS

What are the F16 classes WEAKNESSES

What are the F16 classes OPORTUNITIES

What are the F16 classes THREATS

All classes have them. If you want to keep the class or any class (or business) alive and active, then you must keep asking yourself these questions, looking at it without blinkers on, with a non bias view. Address you threats and weeknesses and capatilise on you strenghts and oportunities.

Or you can........

Agree on these very basic business tenants for going forward. I would suggest 4 new threads under each and start a discussion (NOT a pissing contest!) on each-

Kirt

What did I do this time ?

I hear they now also blame me for the wildfires in Aus as well.

(Apparently, Aussies start spitting fire when the discussion veers to my persona !)

Wouter

As an owner of a Taipan platform that was build to F16 specs and flies an assymetric spinnaker I can tell you with complete honesty that I much prefer to sail my boat WITH the spinnaker in ALL conditions.

With a spi the boat is markedly better to sail then when broad reaching it without a spi. It calms down and has less tendency to dive. Right now beam reaching the Taipan is most difficult compared to the other courses. Of course the trampoline based jib sheeting had to go, boy, is that in the way of spi handling. The selftacker that is fitted in its place is a dream though.

As such the addition of the spinnaker made the boat better and gave it (in my honest opinion) a new lease on life. Of course the new 3rd generation F16's are superior to it, but that is the intent of a mildly restricted development class. But I'm not switching yet and it is still a good boat to be had on the second hand market for most people looking to get into the F16 class. It truly is.

Wouter

Agree with all that Wouter. Very few Taipans were ever built wider in AUS and installed self tackers. So those who tried sailing with kites had the clutter of an overlapping jib on a small tramp and all the kite gear as well. Hard to keep tidy and fast. The extra width also helps get the kite power in use as well. The AUS Taipan sailors already had a strong class fleet to sail in, so it didn't make sense to modifiy their boats with no real numbers to compete with in an F16. The Taipans OS had a clean sheet to start with and built a better Taipan for kites.
One observation on the goals issue - the less serious sailors in this country tend to buy $1K to $2k dungers. It's only the hard core racers prepared to shell out 20K+AUD on a beachcat. It may be different elsewhere but here if we've got an expensive shiny racing cat we race it! Mind you, we've been known to have a barbie after and a rum or three.

Cheers

Yep, and I can't really argue with that.

I think we solved that particular issue back in 2001 when we decided to go our seperate ways. The guys supporting modifying the Taipan design left the Taipan class alone and started a whole new class under a totally different name. We welcomed any Taipan that wanted to play and that was that.

Wouter

And your point is????

The US Hobie Class association has doen the same thing with the H16. They refuse to allow spins, when it has become standard kit on H16 around the rest of the world.

Who wins here?

Hopefully last weekend's events at the West River Sailing Club exemplifies the mission and culture of the F16 Class (Club Catamaran Racing at its best).

Saturday - Club Open House to the public. F16s (as well as an A-Cat and 2 N20s) giving visitors 30 min rides. Familiar sailors given access to sail F16s single handed. Additional, F16 sailors on land to coordinate the rides and to discuss cat sailing. We also kept an F16 on land as a static display to show off the class.

Sunday - Steeple chase style race with "potential" catamaran sailors. There are 7 regularly uni-F16s @ WRSC. All volunteered to take crew, rig for double handed sailing, and to treat the race as a recruiting event. There was a mix of "new" sailors. Some never sailed before, some had a little experience (ie. Hobie 14), one was a spouse that had not sailed for 12 years because her prior experiences was on a less forgiving platform. Winds were great (a little heavy at the start, around 20mph gusts, but managable)! All came back with big smiles and great tales of their sail. None were overwhelmed by the F16. Additionally, one of Saturday's single handed guest crewed on an N20 Sunday. He remarked about the relative ease and speed of hoisting and dousing the F16 chute relative to Sunday's sail.

For the Uni-F16s at the club, it was very gratifying to introduce both new and experienced cat sailors to the F16 class. It was also a great reminder of the versitility of the F16 platfrom.

Good job!

The reason most class associations have virtually identical mission statements is because the association forms to support and promote class racing of xx boat. They are short and simple.

Compare Wouters and the F16 Web site blather to the F18's.


The object of the Association is to promote the interests of the IF18CA through the World
2.1 To co-ordinate and manage the affairs and rules of the IF18CA in co-operation with the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), the National Sailing Authorities, the National Associations, the builders, sail and equipment makers and National Associations.
2.2 To maintain the level rating character of the Formula 18 catamarans.
2.3 To promote and develop competition within IF18CA.
2.4 To comply with objectives and decisions of ISAF as they apply to IF18CA.
2.5 To encourage and foster the sporting and recreational aspects of sailing.

Perhaps if you substituted F16 for F18.... and let the definition of hard core... cut throat racing and nasty axxhole behavior or the priceless... "F16 as the Introduction Class to Catamaran Racing” training wheels anyone? out of the blather and mission statement... the class culture would form from the bottom up on the RACE COURSE... Who knows what that would look like... but it would certainly be authentic.

Following Wouter's vision of the class culture is as anachronistic as trying to create the "Hobie Way of life" enshrined in the Hobie Class mission from the day's of Hobie Alter.

And now you are wondering why teeanger are not joining cat sailing? Promote... manage... affairs.. comply with objectives..., this sounds like boring old guys discussing in a club lounge. Well not only teenager aren't joining.
Go on a kiter or surfer's beach and you know who is anchronistic.
And ask yourself why Hobie was so successfull.

Cheers,

Klaus

Hey Aido,

Why am i just as bad , i do a lot of sailing but not at all these big regatta's. I can tell you why. I do not have the time and money to do a lot of these big regatta things, this would mean that i have to be on the way alomst every weekend and this will not work with a family with 2 small kids. I do guite some sailing at Hellevoetsluis against the same type of boats instead racing open fleets on rating. I do like sailing against the same type of boats because you can then see if you make progress yes or no. My new 16 is not yet ready, the customers have first priority. I hope to have the boat ready for Texel and when the weather is good i will probably go there. I did some sailing International and this is costing enough and i have to make choices. Yes, i am not ventilating to much on what i sail yes or no because i do not see any value in doing this.

Cheers,
Hans

Good job Kris, indeed !

Well done and lets hear more of such activities !

Wouter

Sorry Mark,

I respect you but the attitude that you are displaying in your last post is partly what is turning people away from cat sailing. It is exactly that that I describe as a hardcore mentality.

It is mean spirited, inflexible (my way or the highway !) and quite frankly wrong.

Maybe the F16 class is the only class that tries to be different. If so, then that still doesn't mean the other classes (with identical mission statements) are right. But that is neither here nor there.

What is important is that this is the way we are doing it and quite frankly we don't care what a F18 sailor, a Tornado sailor, a Nacra F20 and who not else thinks about it.

Wouter

There is no F16 sailor.

Just as there is no F18, F20, Tornado, or Hobie 16 sailor.
I know lots of F18/Tornado/whatever sailors that only sail for fun at their club and maybe sail a few regattas a year, there are also those who go to every regatta.

You just cant label F16 sailors as not "hardcore" racers, just as you cant label they as funcruisers.
Everyone is different and might have his own goals etc.