| Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: ACE11]
#212729 06/05/10 11:53 PM 06/05/10 11:53 PM |
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 65 Vic, Australia HJS
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Posts: 65 Vic, Australia | Hi John,
The concept of the Taipan was mainly born out of the work that they had been doing on the A-Class in the early to mid 80's, however, at that time Greg and Jim were also sailing Mosquitoes, and Tornadoes. So I suppose they combined all this knowledge into the Taipan. It was not merely a cut down MkIII A-Class, however, I believe it was close to that. In those days boats were being built in ply, so it was very easy to make modifications on the run.
Yes, you are right in saying that it was originally proposed to the Mosquito Class as a Mosquito Mk III, however, the Mosquito Association were not willing to come to the party. Jim ended up finding the new name... TAIPAN. And I suppose the snake theme has stuck.
Oooooo Those 1982 nationals.... Hot with plenty of MUD. There was water in the basin then... A lot more than we can say now a days!!
| | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Seeker]
#212730 06/06/10 12:02 AM 06/06/10 12:02 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
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Posts: 1,669 Melbourne, Australia | Thanks for you honest answer Now why don't you ask youreslf the following questions. What are the F16 classes STRENGTHSWhat are the F16 classes WEAKNESSESWhat are the F16 classes OPORTUNITIESWhat are the F16 classes THREATSAll classes have them. If you want to keep the class or any class (or business) alive and active, then you must keep asking yourself these questions, looking at it without blinkers on, with a non bias view. Address you threats and weeknesses and capatilise on you strenghts and oportunities. Or you can........ | | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#212731 06/06/10 01:13 AM 06/06/10 01:13 AM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 53 Arkansas, USA Arsailor
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Posts: 53 Arkansas, USA | Agree on these very basic business tenants for going forward. I would suggest 4 new threads under each and start a discussion (NOT a pissing contest!) on each-
Kirt
Kirt Taipan 4.9 USA 159, Flyer USA 185 Will sail for food...
| | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#212752 06/06/10 04:29 AM 06/06/10 04:29 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter OP
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | (Shheesh... any chance to bash Wouter for no reason)
What did I do this time ? I hear they now also blame me for the wildfires in Aus as well. (Apparently, Aussies start spitting fire when the discussion veers to my persona !) Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: ACE11]
#212753 06/06/10 04:41 AM 06/06/10 04:41 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter OP
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Still a fine boat though in sloop or cat rig but seems outdated for today's assymmetric flat kites sailing hot angles.
As an owner of a Taipan platform that was build to F16 specs and flies an assymetric spinnaker I can tell you with complete honesty that I much prefer to sail my boat WITH the spinnaker in ALL conditions. With a spi the boat is markedly better to sail then when broad reaching it without a spi. It calms down and has less tendency to dive. Right now beam reaching the Taipan is most difficult compared to the other courses. Of course the trampoline based jib sheeting had to go, boy, is that in the way of spi handling. The selftacker that is fitted in its place is a dream though. As such the addition of the spinnaker made the boat better and gave it (in my honest opinion) a new lease on life. Of course the new 3rd generation F16's are superior to it, but that is the intent of a mildly restricted development class. But I'm not switching yet and it is still a good boat to be had on the second hand market for most people looking to get into the F16 class. It truly is. Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 06/06/10 04:49 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: ACE11]
#212775 06/06/10 08:02 AM 06/06/10 08:02 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter OP
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | The AUS Taipan sailors already had a strong class fleet to sail in, so it didn't make sense to modifiy their boats with no real numbers to compete with in an F16. The Taipans OS had a clean sheet to start with and built a better Taipan for kites.
Yep, and I can't really argue with that. I think we solved that particular issue back in 2001 when we decided to go our seperate ways. The guys supporting modifying the Taipan design left the Taipan class alone and started a whole new class under a totally different name. We welcomed any Taipan that wanted to play and that was that. Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 06/06/10 08:04 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Dazz]
#212887 06/07/10 07:53 AM 06/07/10 07:53 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 548 MERRITTISLAND, FL Matt M
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Posts: 548 MERRITTISLAND, FL | I cannot resist.... Let's get things correct!!!
Jim Boyer was one of the 2 original directors of AHPC. (Greg Goodall being the second)....
I will stand corrected! At this year's taipan AGM the spinnaker topic came up yet again, and was howled down by the room yet again, if nothing else it was quite amusing! And your point is???? The US Hobie Class association has doen the same thing with the H16. They refuse to allow spins, when it has become standard kit on H16 around the rest of the world. Who wins here? | | | Meeting the Mission
[Re: Wouter]
#212907 06/07/10 10:01 AM 06/07/10 10:01 AM |
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 606 Maryland Kris Hathaway
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Posts: 606 Maryland | Hopefully last weekend's events at the West River Sailing Club exemplifies the mission and culture of the F16 Class (Club Catamaran Racing at its best).
Saturday - Club Open House to the public. F16s (as well as an A-Cat and 2 N20s) giving visitors 30 min rides. Familiar sailors given access to sail F16s single handed. Additional, F16 sailors on land to coordinate the rides and to discuss cat sailing. We also kept an F16 on land as a static display to show off the class.
Sunday - Steeple chase style race with "potential" catamaran sailors. There are 7 regularly uni-F16s @ WRSC. All volunteered to take crew, rig for double handed sailing, and to treat the race as a recruiting event. There was a mix of "new" sailors. Some never sailed before, some had a little experience (ie. Hobie 14), one was a spouse that had not sailed for 12 years because her prior experiences was on a less forgiving platform. Winds were great (a little heavy at the start, around 20mph gusts, but managable)! All came back with big smiles and great tales of their sail. None were overwhelmed by the F16. Additionally, one of Saturday's single handed guest crewed on an N20 Sunday. He remarked about the relative ease and speed of hoisting and dousing the F16 chute relative to Sunday's sail.
For the Uni-F16s at the club, it was very gratifying to introduce both new and experienced cat sailors to the F16 class. It was also a great reminder of the versitility of the F16 platfrom.
Kris Hathaway | | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Wouter]
#213010 06/07/10 11:58 PM 06/07/10 11:58 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | The reason most class associations have virtually identical mission statements is because the association forms to support and promote class racing of xx boat. They are short and simple.
Compare Wouters and the F16 Web site blather to the F18's.
The object of the Association is to promote the interests of the IF18CA through the World 2.1 To co-ordinate and manage the affairs and rules of the IF18CA in co-operation with the International Sailing Federation (ISAF), the National Sailing Authorities, the National Associations, the builders, sail and equipment makers and National Associations. 2.2 To maintain the level rating character of the Formula 18 catamarans. 2.3 To promote and develop competition within IF18CA. 2.4 To comply with objectives and decisions of ISAF as they apply to IF18CA. 2.5 To encourage and foster the sporting and recreational aspects of sailing.
Perhaps if you substituted F16 for F18.... and let the definition of hard core... cut throat racing and nasty axxhole behavior or the priceless... "F16 as the Introduction Class to Catamaran Racing” training wheels anyone? out of the blather and mission statement... the class culture would form from the bottom up on the RACE COURSE... Who knows what that would look like... but it would certainly be authentic.
Following Wouter's vision of the class culture is as anachronistic as trying to create the "Hobie Way of life" enshrined in the Hobie Class mission from the day's of Hobie Alter.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#213013 06/08/10 01:35 AM 06/08/10 01:35 AM |
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 571 Hamburg Smiths_Cat
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Posts: 571 Hamburg | Following Wouter's vision of the class culture is as anachronistic as trying to create the "Hobie Way of life" enshrined in the Hobie Class mission from the day's of Hobie Alter. And now you are wondering why teeanger are not joining cat sailing? Promote... manage... affairs.. comply with objectives..., this sounds like boring old guys discussing in a club lounge. Well not only teenager aren't joining. Go on a kiter or surfer's beach and you know who is anchronistic. And ask yourself why Hobie was so successfull. Cheers, Klaus | | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Aido]
#213017 06/08/10 02:55 AM 06/08/10 02:55 AM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 221 Netherlands Hans_Ned_111
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Posts: 221 Netherlands | Wouter
The mission of the F16 class should be to get as many boats on the water as possible.
God Damn it Wouter you cant even be bothered to get your own boat on the water for the NS regatta. Shame on you. Hans Klok is just as bad. Whats wrong with you guys?
The best thing you can do for the class is show up to some regattas. Hey Aido, Why am i just as bad , i do a lot of sailing but not at all these big regatta's. I can tell you why. I do not have the time and money to do a lot of these big regatta things, this would mean that i have to be on the way alomst every weekend and this will not work with a family with 2 small kids. I do guite some sailing at Hellevoetsluis against the same type of boats instead racing open fleets on rating. I do like sailing against the same type of boats because you can then see if you make progress yes or no. My new 16 is not yet ready, the customers have first priority. I hope to have the boat ready for Texel and when the weather is good i will probably go there. I did some sailing International and this is costing enough and i have to make choices. Yes, i am not ventilating to much on what i sail yes or no because i do not see any value in doing this. Cheers, Hans | | | Re: Meeting the Mission
[Re: Kris Hathaway]
#213082 06/08/10 11:10 AM 06/08/10 11:10 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter OP
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Good job Kris, indeed !
Well done and lets hear more of such activities !
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Restating the F16 mission (goals)
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#213084 06/08/10 11:18 AM 06/08/10 11:18 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter OP
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Sorry Mark,
I respect you but the attitude that you are displaying in your last post is partly what is turning people away from cat sailing. It is exactly that that I describe as a hardcore mentality.
It is mean spirited, inflexible (my way or the highway !) and quite frankly wrong.
Maybe the F16 class is the only class that tries to be different. If so, then that still doesn't mean the other classes (with identical mission statements) are right. But that is neither here nor there.
What is important is that this is the way we are doing it and quite frankly we don't care what a F18 sailor, a Tornado sailor, a Nacra F20 and who not else thinks about it.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
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