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Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: pgp] #221381
10/10/10 02:26 PM
10/10/10 02:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
NacraKid Offline
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BE intresting to see wheter Nacra go down the route of minimum weight or heaveier and more in line with the Viper to get a bit of better handicap aswell

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Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: NacraKid] #221385
10/10/10 07:44 PM
10/10/10 07:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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France
I'm eagerly awaiting the fist regatta where I'll be seriously beaten by Macca himself on a F16 smile

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: PTP] #221387
10/10/10 08:19 PM
10/10/10 08:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by PTP
It will be great for the class although I think it will maybe start 'out dating' some boats?


I hope it outdates everything out there. I hope it sets a new standard by raising the bar. I hope it pushes Falcon Marine, and AHPC to pump out a better boats.

Originally Posted by PTP
I only say it because it seems like there has been a lot of turnover in the f18 class.


Not really, the Tiger ran for a looooong time. Capricorn was around 4-5years? Infusion has been around quite a while as well. The nice thing with new boats is somebody always has to have the latest and greatest, (with only a marginal performance gain), and it puts used boats on the market, making them more affordable to people.


I'm boatless.
Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: pepin] #221388
10/10/10 08:33 PM
10/10/10 08:33 PM
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pgp Offline
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smile "fist" regatta. I don't think it will come to that.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: Karl_Brogger] #221392
10/10/10 09:18 PM
10/10/10 09:18 PM
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Michigan
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Michigan
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger


I hope it outdates everything out there. I hope it sets a new standard by raising the bar. I hope it pushes Falcon Marine, and AHPC to pump out a better boats.



I don't know about that. Nacra isn't going to produce a product significantly better than Falcon Marine at the same cost and same weight. Not going to happen. I think Matt makes great boats and I would take his Falcon over a Viper or the Nacra boat (although it is hard to say... I would go with a Falcon over the Nacra if the Nacra weighs in well over the minimum). Vectorworks/Falcon Marine customer service is a lot better than Nacra's IMO. Don't have much experience personally with AHPC.
On a different level... I would not wish badness on the people who actually had the balls to start producing the boats that invented the F16 class. It is only due to Matt/Vectorworks/Falcon that this class actually exists in the US.

Last edited by PTP; 10/10/10 09:22 PM.
Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: PTP] #221393
10/10/10 09:42 PM
10/10/10 09:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
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no ill will wished dude! I'm not saying either boat is poor, but you, Matt, or Greg can't say there isn't room for improvement.

I just want the F16 to be all that it can be and competition amongst the builders is a good way to spur development. That's the nature of just about any business, keep up with the competition or get left behind.


I'm boatless.
Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: Karl_Brogger] #221396
10/10/10 10:04 PM
10/10/10 10:04 PM
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Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
no ill will wished dude! I'm not saying either boat is poor, but you, Matt, or Greg can't say there isn't room for improvement.

I just want the F16 to be all that it can be and competition amongst the builders is a good way to spur development. That's the nature of just about any business, keep up with the competition or get left behind.

I hear you. I want development and improvement too, but I do want to give some props to the "founders" and the people who can produce quality boats in the US at minimum weight.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: pgp] #221404
10/11/10 02:35 AM
10/11/10 02:35 AM
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France
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France
Originally Posted by pgp
smile "fist" regatta. I don't think it will come to that.
Lol, nice typo smile I meant first!

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: pepin] #221407
10/11/10 04:12 AM
10/11/10 04:12 AM
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We can forgive you Pepin, its just the way the French say things grin

What if and heres a what if, Nacra put banana boards on the F16, it would seem a logical thing to do if the same designers are being used as their F20 and from a marketing point of one upmanship + they would be able to use less voluminous hulls to carry the weight ( I know it would be trade off in light airs ) but it would put them outside the F16 class rules.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: waynemarlow] #221409
10/11/10 04:37 AM
10/11/10 04:37 AM
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Australia
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But isnt the F16 class all about allowing development??

curved boards are cool!!


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Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: macca] #221410
10/11/10 05:01 AM
10/11/10 05:01 AM
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pgp Offline
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No. The class is about sailing, and limited developement.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: pgp] #221437
10/11/10 09:42 AM
10/11/10 09:42 AM
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Posts: 439
Memphis, TN
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Banana boards are currently not allowed, but it might be about time to rethink that one....



Viper USA 132

1984 Hobie 18
Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: macca] #221442
10/11/10 10:43 AM
10/11/10 10:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
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S
smv Offline
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Originally Posted by macca
But isnt the F16 class all about allowing development??

curved boards are cool!!


I hope this isn't an indication that Nacra plans to build a 16 that is 'almost' F16 compliant, or builds a boat with the hopes that class rules will simply bend to allow for their boat to fit into the box.

As an interested outsider planning to pick up an F16 sometime in the next year I'd like to comment on what interests me about the class. It's not the development. That's what the A class is for. If I wanted to get into a full on development class I would get an A cat.

What interests me is the flexibility the class offers to me as a sailor; one up or two up is class legal, has a kite and I should be able to right the boat by myself. On top of these fine attributes is the box rule which limits development so some degree. If I wanted to get into a development class, again, I'd buy an A cat. I don't, and my guess is that most current and perspective F16 owners don't either.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: smv] #221445
10/11/10 10:51 AM
10/11/10 10:51 AM
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Australia
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I really don't think curved boards are a viable solution for the F16 class. They are very cool and certainly to elevate the performance of the boat and the sailing experience. But they are very expensive to design, develop and build, to the point that they would be prohibitive for pretty much all the current builders and thats not the point really.

Most of you know my views on the class rules relating to development and I would be very happy to see tighter rules, hence reducing costs. Rather than throwing heaps of $$ at developing uber boats..


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Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: smv] #221448
10/11/10 11:15 AM
10/11/10 11:15 AM
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pgp Offline
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Where are you located?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: pgp] #221450
10/11/10 11:30 AM
10/11/10 11:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
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S
smv Offline
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Ann Arbor, MI. Not ready yet, just spent a huge chunk of my F16 fund on a surgery for my dog... but, I've got the winter to build that fund back up!

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: macca] #221451
10/11/10 11:36 AM
10/11/10 11:36 AM
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waynemarlow Offline
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Originally Posted by macca
But they are very expensive to design, develop and build, to the point that they would be prohibitive for pretty much all the current builders and thats not the point really..


No thats not quite the case, all the development cost has now been spent on the F20, to integrate that knowledge now into a slightly smaller boat is very minimal and it would spread the cost over more boats.

With modern CNC mills cutting out the moulds, its almost irrelavent whether the board is curved or straight and equally the cost is not significantly higher to produce, a mould is a mould.

But would I want to see them in the F16 class, not right now, perhaps in the future when all the development has taken place in the A's and other classes and we understand them better.

One thing for sure the performance of the F16's is only going to be marginally better with curved boards and greater gains could be found in other functions of design.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: smv] #221453
10/11/10 12:01 PM
10/11/10 12:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Contact CRAW. You might be able to get connected. Hopefully some of those folks will be able to sneak away for Tradewinds/Jan., Charlotte Harbor/Feb., and/or GYC/Apr.

Cheers!


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: pgp] #221454
10/11/10 12:07 PM
10/11/10 12:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 549
Knokke-Heist - Belgium
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Knokke-Heist - Belgium
Macca,
Is Nacra working on a boat and when will you launch it?

Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
Re: Why Nacra can and should compete [Re: Gilo] #221467
10/11/10 07:28 PM
10/11/10 07:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 242
Brisveagas
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Brisveagas
Gill,
Nacra is definitely working on a boat. They would not be certain of a release date I suspect. 18 months minimum is my guess.

My bet is it will have a 104 texel rating.

I could of course be completely wrong on all counts.


Aido
Viper 288
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