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Why put the crew on the wire downwind? #224334
11/17/10 09:26 PM
11/17/10 09:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Why not the skipper downwind?

Other than the visibility sucks for, I'd think it'd be a better route, but just wanted to hear some thoughts.


I'm boatless.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Karl_Brogger] #224335
11/17/10 09:31 PM
11/17/10 09:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
It's faster for the crew to get on and off the wire during gybes. I like driving downwind from the wire and do it quite often in distance races...but it's really hard to not get twitchy with the tiller when going out and coming in and gybes are tough to get smooth when you have to coordinate it with going in and out on the wire. AND you can get more mass further back on the boat with the crew out. He/she can use the skipper's trap and trap out behind the skipper (on the stern if needed). The crew can't position his weight behind the skipper's position if the skipper is out on the wire.


Jake Kohl
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Jake] #224336
11/17/10 09:58 PM
11/17/10 09:58 PM

S
Scarecrow
Unregistered
Scarecrow
Unregistered
S



When I sailed F18 I'd (skipper) always stay on wire until the first gybe. It was worth a few boat lengths to be out there driving the boat hard while the crew was pulling the kite up. A couple of times we also swapped jobs at the bottom mark. I'd hand the tiller up to my crew and then pull the kite down. This was also fast but only in conditions where you didn't need to play the main at all as trying to hand the mainsheet to him was slow. With regards to weight I used to drive from the transom when on trap so weight distribution was almost identical as we were similar weights.

Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Jake] #224337
11/17/10 10:00 PM
11/17/10 10:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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South Florida & the Keys
Plus, if you stuff a bow hard with the skipper on the wire you could lose steering altogether if the skip loses footing resulting in bad things.....


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: arbo06] #224340
11/18/10 05:07 AM
11/18/10 05:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
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Melbourne, Australia
As with Scarecrow, I liked to trap (skipper) on the first and last gybe if conditions allowed. If it was very fresh, then the crew would always go out as I did not feel comfortable steering with my back foot on the transom. Had less control of the steering due to the angle of the tiller extension.


Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #224347
11/18/10 07:45 AM
11/18/10 07:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
The spin sheet gives the crew a nice "Seat belt" against getting swept off the back of the boat while on the wire whereas the skipper has none.

Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: ThunderMuffin] #224353
11/18/10 09:19 AM
11/18/10 09:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
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sail7seas  Offline
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FL
standing on rear beam? (see attached photo)
style points?

Attached Files
StandingONrearBeam.jpg (309 downloads)
Last edited by sail7seas; 11/18/10 09:21 AM.
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: sail7seas] #224355
11/18/10 09:23 AM
11/18/10 09:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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The owner of the boat above has just bought an F20C btw, he is an active sailor so that is good news for the class.

Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Tony_F18] #224376
11/18/10 01:59 PM
11/18/10 01:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Hamburg
Smiths_Cat Offline
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Hamburg
If crew referes to the person who doesn't have the tiller in the hand:
If it is strong wind day, the crew can use the legs to sheet in the spi, if on the wire. In lighter winds it doesn't matter who is helming in my opinion.

Cheers,

Klaus

Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: sail7seas] #224411
11/19/10 09:32 AM
11/19/10 09:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 120
M
maritimesailor Offline
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maritimesailor  Offline
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Posts: 120
Just awesome! That is definitely one way to keep the bows up!

I sometimes think some foot straps off the back beam woul be nice, allow me to move inboard a bit (I'm crew).

We are starting to play with the skipper staying on the wire around the windward mark, at least until the first gybe. Definitely gives you a bit of an advantage (no pause for powering up while the crew settles into the trap), but hard for the skipper to not get slung forward during the turn down (think of all that power trying to send you forward as the boat turns)... or at least my skipper has that issue ;-)

Originally Posted by sail7seas
standing on rear beam? (see attached photo)
style points?

Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: maritimesailor] #224413
11/19/10 09:43 AM
11/19/10 09:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by maritimesailor
Just awesome! That is definitely one way to keep the bows up!

I sometimes think some foot straps off the back beam woul be nice, allow me to move inboard a bit (I'm crew).

We are starting to play with the skipper staying on the wire around the windward mark, at least until the first gybe. Definitely gives you a bit of an advantage (no pause for powering up while the crew settles into the trap), but hard for the skipper to not get slung forward during the turn down (think of all that power trying to send you forward as the boat turns)... or at least my skipper has that issue ;-)

Originally Posted by sail7seas
standing on rear beam? (see attached photo)
style points?


It's the centrifugal force that wants to swing you away from the boat as it turns around the mark that's so tough. It makes you very light on your feet and susceptible to loosing your traction on the hull.


Jake Kohl
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Jake] #224420
11/19/10 12:28 PM
11/19/10 12:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Todd_Sails Offline
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Todd_Sails  Offline
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42.904444 N; 88.008586 W
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by maritimesailor
Just awesome! That is definitely one way to keep the bows up!

I sometimes think some foot straps off the back beam woul be nice, allow me to move inboard a bit (I'm crew).

We are starting to play with the skipper staying on the wire around the windward mark, at least until the first gybe. Definitely gives you a bit of an advantage (no pause for powering up while the crew settles into the trap), but hard for the skipper to not get slung forward during the turn down (think of all that power trying to send you forward as the boat turns)... or at least my skipper has that issue ;-)

Originally Posted by sail7seas
standing on rear beam? (see attached photo)
style points?


It's the centrifugal force that wants to swing you away from the boat as it turns around the mark that's so tough. It makes you very light on your feet and susceptible to loosing your traction on the hull.


Why wouldn't the skipper have his foot in the foot strap behind the rear beam to prevent this?


F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!

'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Todd_Sails] #224423
11/19/10 12:47 PM
11/19/10 12:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
Originally Posted by The Todd
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by maritimesailor
Just awesome! That is definitely one way to keep the bows up!

I sometimes think some foot straps off the back beam woul be nice, allow me to move inboard a bit (I'm crew).

We are starting to play with the skipper staying on the wire around the windward mark, at least until the first gybe. Definitely gives you a bit of an advantage (no pause for powering up while the crew settles into the trap), but hard for the skipper to not get slung forward during the turn down (think of all that power trying to send you forward as the boat turns)... or at least my skipper has that issue ;-)

Originally Posted by sail7seas
standing on rear beam? (see attached photo)
style points?


It's the centrifugal force that wants to swing you away from the boat as it turns around the mark that's so tough. It makes you very light on your feet and susceptible to loosing your traction on the hull.


Why wouldn't the skipper have his foot in the foot strap behind the rear beam to prevent this?


You mean, ankle-breakers?

Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: ThunderMuffin] #224427
11/19/10 01:22 PM
11/19/10 01:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
You gotta crouch in till your butt is almost on your ankles when turning down. Keeps your weight low and you don't have the lever of your body try to screw you up.


I'm boatless.
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: Karl_Brogger] #224445
11/19/10 06:05 PM
11/19/10 06:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
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flumpmaster  Offline
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Posts: 606
League City, TX
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
You gotta crouch in till your butt is almost on your ankles when turning down. Keeps your weight low and you don't have the lever of your body try to screw you up.

Just anticipate and get your left foot planted behind the rear cross bar in a solid footing before the turn down (body angled towards the back of the boat)


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Why put the crew on the wire downwind? [Re: flumpmaster] #224501
11/21/10 06:55 PM
11/21/10 06:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
NacraKid Offline
member
NacraKid  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 126
Southampton UK
If at the windward mark we are rounding very close to several boats that either we want to roll or theyre in danger of rolling us I use this tactic as does mean you can get up and going a bit quicker, if it is getting very windy then I jump in due to make the mark rounding easier.
If there are no boats around we find that we usally go round and I come off the wire and take as much depth as possible while the crew is hoisting the kite to make it as easy as possible.

Also do it when we are gybe setting as it means I can can jump out on the wire quicker than the crew can.


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