We have been hearing this BS for years now and each time differences in skill have triomphed over weight differences. We all have access to this race data over the last 10 years.

What more do you guys want ?

Sure, single-gear race cars will have their day but they won't win the all-out series of races that determine the Championship.

That is part of racing catamarans no matter what the class; incl. the F18's, Tornado's and SUPER DUPER Nacra 20's. Why hold the F16's to a different benchmark.

The Olympic Viper teams will NOT converge to 260 lbs teams, that is just too light for these boats when racing over the full spectrum of conditions. Haven't we learned anything from that Chupacabra disaster of the Beijing Olympics ?

Specialisation is for insects, not racing catamarans.

For every Struble I introduce a Brouwer with opposing views.

Wouter

Umm, isn't there a video where Carolijn says they had no problems being fast in the windy conditions and they weighed 119kg??

The simple fact is that top level teams will target a lighter weight than currently seen as optimal. They will work harder on the boat and simply learn to sail it better in the heavy conditions. There is data that shows every class that is made Olympic sees a weight drop of 8-9kg per athlete as the top teams learn how to sail the boats better.

This will become even more critical if a 16ft boat is chosen.

So, what you are saying since I'm 175 I should go ahead and sell my boat and get completely out of sailing? 175 is too heavy for an A-cat too. My body fat percentage is no more than 14 percent, so I don't think I'm fat and wouldn't be considered fat by anyone's standards.

You and a bunch of other people are so racist when it comes to weight and other things, no wonder the sport is taking a nose dive.

Let's go back to last year's F18 nationals. If I remember correctly, correct me if I'm wrong Macca, didn't you have one of the heaviest boats and heavier crew weights? Where did you place?

I'm quoting you here cause you are basically saying you have to have skill to be able to do well in varying conditions.

Or am I wrong and as soon as I see a light weight crew show up, I should pack my boat up and go home?

Is that what you are saying? If you are, i'm selling my boat tomorrow and I'm done with it!

Mike

How much do you want for it?

You guys are being baited by the chief of the "I hate F16s" tribe.

Never forget this is a trade war. Every F16 sold represents a lost sale for another class.

My reference is to the potential for crew weights to drop in the f16 if that class was made Olympic.

If you are sailing anything other than Olympic level then you will be more than ok and can continue to enjoy your boat as you have been.

But the Olympics is a different game, laser sailors stress about 1kg weight differences etc. And at that level it makes a difference.

As for the 2010 USA F18 nats, we borrowed a boat and it was heavier than min weight. Our crew weight was just over min, 154kg I think. We were beaten in a light air event by a lighter team..

My interest is in the F16 class.

Aren't you all forgetting that the majority of the world sailors are not as heavy as the typical American, I would say 70 - 75kgs for a man and somewhat lighter for the lady, would be pretty typical of most other sailors.

We cannot pick a boat just on what is the average in America or Australasia

What weight? The F16 class doesn't have a minimum weight.

WHAT?? I think we Americans need to introduce the rest of the World to Duncan Donuts! Let them bulk up to our weights! Why should we have to get off our fat arses and get down to 3rd world weights just to compete?!

BTW, my new crew is an 80lb. 12yr. old boy I bought for 100 Rupees in India...sure, he's light, but my fat azz will make up for it! And he doesn't eat much! It's Win-Win!

So I'm fat but like to sail 2-up in F16, F18 and (preferably) N20. In light air, why don't I just move the hulls in by 6" so the boat heels sooner?

You engineer dudes figure out how far I have to move them in at 400 lbs. The classes only specify maximum beam, right? Maybe with that much weight I have to remove one hull completely

Sounds like a good solution would be a min crew weight rule of 140kg, roughly 310 lbs for events where teams will take it to extremes, ie. Olympics.

Would Matthew and Taylor make the 310 min.?

If we're going to discuss weight, I'd at least like to see where we are in the real world.

Kris

IF ISAF likes the 16 foot format for mixed multihull then ISAF will write a set of class rules that defines the Olympic Class. It's very likely, that they will spec out rules like the OD Tornado class. (The T class had to capitulate to what ISAF wanted at the time in their attempt to remain Olympic) The T class OD rules or an even tighter SMOD are probably what you are looking at going forward.) They won't have to set a crew weight minimum... by fixing the sail design to basically SMOD ... the crew weights will be automatically set.

If they do not, then they (the boat) would carry additional weight.

It just seems like we're fumbling around in the dark.

I wonder if USS (I just re-uped for three years) would be interested in collecting weight data, just to see what's really happening.

Provided that the ISAF specifies a sail plan large enough to merit an optimized crew weight of 310 lbs, yes? If that is the case, why stir the pot in the first place?

As noted earlier, weight is an issue for all beach cats at the extremes. We even had an ARC-22 race single handed in light winds and beat the pants off of everyone, corrected just this last month. Frankly, racing in 5 kts is BS anyway and you are going to be hardpress to find any beachcat where crew weight is not an issue in those winds.

Too late to request USS to collect the info for this year's event. Perhaps soliciting the teams yourself? It would be nice because so many of the variables are constant due to the same boat model with rotation. If conducting multivariate analysis, I would have crew weight, wind strength, and order of finish as my initial variables and result. Thereafter, a simple rating factor might be added to try to control for "race experience" and/or familiarity with the F16/Viper platform. There should be enough observations from the race to make a pretty good analysis of the crew weight's coefficient of determination except that there may not have been enough higher winds races.

Right!... don't stir the pot for the class. I agree.

The provided boats model is always tough to interpret because you can't tune the boat for your weight and sail.... but the championship of champions does add quite a bit of talent to a small class. In this circumstance the crew weights becomes a bit more determinative and obvious. With ISAF trials coming for the Mixed multi discipline and the criteria for selection a bit murky.... The issues that matter to the Olympic level will bubble to the top.

At the end of the day... The Olympic guys and gals will show up for one ISAF grade I event... (Miami OCR's.) They will also organize a pre regatta before the OCR's.... Will the rank and file in any current class that ISAF draws from configure into a mixed teams and then spend the money and suffer the headaches of Miami to get crushed on the water. (Don't underestimate the psychology of DFL 10 minutes behind the pack and then a 10 mile sail back to the beach)

I think wind strength was posted. But yes, if the teams would volunteer the information it would be helpful.

It just seems to me the weight question has been around forever and I'm surprised why there is no effort to add facts to the debate. It's like the philosophers arguing how many teeth a horse has, but noone counting.