I want to splice a short piece of rope either into the middle or from the end of a spinnaker sheet. I have 8mm Buzz line(Braided cover only, no core) and want to attached a smaller diameter (5mm) piece to either the ends or the middle as a "pig Tail" to tie to the spinnaker clew.
How do I do this. Essentially its two substantially different diameter ropes.

I've got an 8 or 9mm single braid spin sheet, for my pigtail I just stabbed it through the center with 3mm then spliced a loop. I just tie that to the clew.

the brummel splice is great for a mid line splice.
http://www.neropes.com/SPL_12Strand_EyeSpliceBrummel.aspx


I personally have a 3mm dynema line with 2 end splices. one is luggage tagged around the clew and the other end hasa small eye slice that i run both ends of my spin through. i simply tie a figure 8 in each end as a stopper knot. the eye slice is big enough for the 2 lines, but the stopper knots cant slip out.

I woud take your 5mm and use it as a core (from the middle point of your sheet out a distance in each direction) for your normal 8mm sheet then to a locking stitch down each side. Distance should be at least two fid lengths, locking stitch the full length. There may be better ways to incorporate a brummel splice (which refers to just the lock that you see in the above link, not the loop) so that it is actually locked.

I need to look and see how mine was done...

But couldn't you eye splice the end of the small line (largish brummel). Poke the spliced loop all the way through the side of the spin sheet so it pokes out the other side...then feed it back through itself making a loop (or maybe two to three loops would be better...like a prusik knot). Should work very clean and easy.

Wouldn't this leave you with 2 bitter ends hanging?

MN3: Dont those big stopper knots get caught behind the forestay when gybing?

Thanks MN3, but its the large knots i am trying to avoid. Splicing a smaller line (size can be any size) will allow me to connect easier and remove the knots.
I was going to eye splice the 8mm and come off this, but it is too thick to go thru the blocks then.

no. Bitter ends are on the trampoline. You're splicing the small 1/8" (or similar) line in the center of the spinnaker sheet. It goes through the weave of the sheet and then around itself.

Bitter ends are eye spliced and connected with a tiny little locking spliced strop (I have this now and it's cool).

The F18 we just acquired has this setup. I haven't yet looked closely at how the 1/8" line is connected to the sheet. I'll have the boat rigged this weekend and try to get some photos.

Not usually but occasionally, i think i am going to switch and try what jake has suggested (or similar)

Gotcha


Cool, thanks

take a piece of tiny spectra (7/64 works). Put an eye splice in it, doesn't need to be a brummel. Put spin sheet through eye. In the place you want to have the pig tail, take the end of the spectra and put it through the center of the sheet and then THROUGH the line of the eye in the spectra. Did that 5 years ago on my spin sheet, still works fine.

It's pretty simple to do the set up jake is talking about:
Take a fid to the center of the spin sheet.
Pass the 3mm dyneema through the core.
Wrap the 3mm dyneema around the core a couple times.
Pass the 3mm dyneema through the core in the same direction as the first pass.
Bury the tails / splice together into one another for a foot to 18" depending on your boat and how close the clew gets to your blocks.

Tie the trail onto the clew of the spinnaker where the tails are spliced together.

You can tie the ends of the spinnaker sheet together on the tramp, splice them together, or criss cross them with a shockcord under the tramp, all personal preference.

Here are a few options that come to mind and that I prototyped this morning. The red pigtail below is close to what is described above. The red dyneema pierces the hollow-braid sheet, wraps around, and goes back through the same hole. The pieces are then secured with a locked brummel and bury. There's a large locked brummel eye splice at the other end. You can attach the sheets to the clew with an eye-hitch.

The second version (green) is less permanent. Here I started with a dyneema strop with a locked brummel eye splice on each end (one large and one small). I pierced the sheet off-center (to capture more of the strands), pushed the small eye through, and eye-hitched it in place.

The third option (blue) is perhaps the strongest, but also the bulkiest. Here I've put a locked brummel eye in the middle of the sheet. Then I took a strop made like the green one and eye-hitched the small eye to the sheet.

I think I like the red version best. It is the smallest and tidyest of the three. It should be stronger than the green and nearly as strong as the blue. It also turned out to be the easiset to make, given that the Bzzz Line I used as sheet prototype is difficult to pierce.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Red is closest to our set up.

Strength isn't really an issue as the load no where near approaches the breaking strenght of these lines.

whats an "eye hitch"?

I don't do an eye on that end, just tie a bowline

Key tag? There's a bunch of stuff on youtube.

I guess this isn't it since, by definition, a hitch is temporary. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ETjsIHLg0M
Still, lots of stuff on youtube.

True. 7mm Bzzz Line (what I used in the prototypes) has a rated tensile strength of about 1700 lbs. 1/8" Amsteel Blue (the dyneema line I used) rated minimum strength is about 2300 lbs. Even if the knots cut the strength in half, you'd still have a 5x-10x safety margin. Therefore, I think any of the three would be practical.

I like the red pigtail because it is the neatest and smallest. It must, however, be spliced directly onto the sheet. If it ever wears or is damaged, the pigtail will need to be cut off and a new one spliced on.

The advantage of the green version is that the strop can be made separately from the sheet (see below). It can be attached or removed later. When it wears, the strop can be easily replaced. You could even carry a spare and swap it out on the beach. If you aren't comfortable about splicing dyneema yourself, someone else could make the strop for you without you having to send them your sheet.

I made the blue one because I wasn't entirely comfortable with how the others will tend to open up the braid under load. That can't be good for the line and might lead to hidden chafe. The strop is very easy to replace on this one. Unfortunately, it's bulky, and the brummel might not be easy to tie, depending on what line is used for the sheet.

Regards,
Eric

I thought about that too...that's why I thought incorporating a prusik knot into the connection of the tail to the sheet would relieve the tendency to spread the braid.

You would splice a somewhat sizeable eye into the tiny tail, poke the eye through the weave of the sheet, then make three wraps of the eye/tail around the sheet. Each wrap of the eye around the sheet would have the bitter end of the tail go through the eye and would end that way. Image of a prusik knot included below...imagine it with the end of the tail (where the overhand knot is in this picture) actually coming through the sheet weave of the pink line instead of around the pink line.

You can also probably step it down from a 1/8" line (the Amsteel runs large anyway) to a 7/64 or 1/16" line (though the 1/16" would be tough to untie from the spinnaker clew).

http://www.nic.fi/~sos/knots/prusik.jpg

These are OK solutions but they all add bulk and hard spots to the sheet where it runs around the headstay. Better solution is to splice a "Y" out of two pieces of 4mm spectra, and bury two ends of the "Y" into the middle of the sheet going either direction. Lock stitch each side (non cored lines) and voila, you end up with a short 4mm pigtail coming directly out of the middle of the sheet, no hard spots or visible splices. Tie ends together in ****. Did mine this way and there is no problem with it catching on gybes.

Can do it with Robline Racing Sheet Pro (best) for around $130. Buzz Line about half that.
Contact me through AnacortesRigging.com

There is no problem with this setup getting snagged on the forestay. It's how Wildcats and C2s come stock... it's what all the top guys use.

Jake, that knot with the wrap around is exactly what we have, just wrapped around a couple times and then through the core of the spin sheet. That way your keeping the line together rather than pulling it apart.

Ours goes around the sheet, comes through it sideways and continues the loop around the sheet. I then bury a long tail about 3 inches into the dyneema, come out and make a button. The other end of the dyneema tail is spliced into an eye, which goes through the spinnaker, loops back and closes on the button - takes no time to attach the sheet, and is very secure.
The halyard, dousing line and tack line are all attached using soft shackles, so attaching the kite is done without tying any knots.

An eye hitch is pictured below (red line). The same basic knot form goes by several names. When tied in an eye, it's called an "eye hitch". At the end of a line, it's called a "cow hitch". When tied on a bight through a ring or grommet, it's called a "ring hitch". Among landlubbers, it's commonly known as a "luggage-tag hitch".

The downside of putting an eye hitch on the clew is that you have to pass your sheets through the eye before reeving. If you like to store your sheets attached to the boat, you could put a soft shackle at the end of the strop instead of an eye. See the blue line below. A well-tied bowline will serve just as well, but be aware that dyneema is very slick and doesn't hold knots well. I have seen even bowlines slip.

Regards,
Eric

Jake, that's an interesting idea. A prusik knot might reduce strain on the braid, but it's important to note that one still needs to pierce the sheet (as you described). Prusik cord is much, much grippier than dyneema and prusik knots still tend to slip on wet rope.

And yes, one could easily step down to 7/64" Amsteel. I simply have lots of 1/8" in red, green, and blue, but not much 7/64" (and only in gray).

Regards,
Eric

Hmmm, that does sound better. It would put all the strain longitudinally on the line and not tend to split the braid. Properly made, it would be very tidy. Although I dislike lock stiching, I'll have to give it a try.

Thanks, I'm always happy to learn and to improve my ropework.

Regards,
Eric

Very tidy and clean. With any cored line the pigtail can be spliced into the core and not require a lock stitch. A hollow braid I would lock stitch but probably it would still be unnecessary, just insurance for when it is not loaded. The other solutions depicted here will reduce the strength of the line by at least the amount of a knot, not that it matters on the little boats as you'll never even get close to the break strength of the line. But, its cleaner and definitely stronger.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40637555@N02/5967202847/in/photostream

Ok,

This one is made with gray 7/64" Amsteel Blue. The clew end has a large sliding eye (because I think a large eye should resist chafe better than a small one). There's a locking brummel at the sheet and the two ends run down the center of the sheet. They are lockstitched in and go about a foot before tapering.

This version is definitely the tidiest one, and almost certainly the strongest as well. I'm not sure, however, that it's the most practical. I suspect that the strop will wear out sooner than the sheet, so a removable one might be the preferred way to go.

All in all, though, it's been an interesting exercise.

Regards,
Eric