So I signed up for windsurfing lessons this morning!

It looks like my search for crew has failed (or is failing) and I can't be spending any more time on the beach. So, if there's too much wind for me to sail uni, I'll break out the board and harass Terry!

How do boards compare to F16s in the 15-20 range?

Like sailing, it all depends on what you want to spend. If you want to drop some serious coin on a formula board, big carbon fin, 12mtr sail, carbon mast and boom, you'll probably be able to hang with the F16's (oh, and serious step up your fitness). If you go a cheaper route and buy some recreational gear, you'll get smoked.

Seriously, thinking about a board to take me out onto the course and watch the cats play, once the wind comes up.

More time sitting and watching than sailing.

Enjoy, and hope you are ready for the next fitness level. Do learn how to waterstart

There are 2 problems with a wind surfer:

1. There is nowhere for me to sit.

2. There is nowhere to sit my beer.

Wind surfing got old real quick.

Well, I'm all outta beer so that's no problem.

From a physical perpective it is much easier to pick up kitesurfing.
Windsurfing is much harder to master once you get beyond the basics as well.
Both are good fun though

I'm sure there's a board/sail combination that will let me cruise around the bay without pulling a hernia. I've no intention of mastering anything, just goin' for a sail...

As soon as Karl mentioned money, I quickly revised my plan!

If the winds up join the committee boat or chase boats.

Pass. I've been thinking about this for awhile...

Back when windsurfing was exploding, I got hooked.
Thought this is great, I can do it myself, minimal set-up yata yata. BUT, If the wind is too much for your sail, it is beyond physical, or too little for your sail and you end up having to hold the mast up yourself. To fix this you end up with a full quiver of sails to suit any condition, masts and boom to match and quickly following a variety of boards to go with it. Soon the price of the cat was not so bad.

The whole holding the mast up to go is the real killer. Standing rigging is not to be given up lightly.

Also until you learn to water start and successfully use a harness, the physical demands from windsurfing way outdo the physical demands of your F16 even in a blow.

Thought about one of Hobie's sailing Kayak's?

Yes, for about a minute. It isn't for me.

Okay, the first lesson (an hour and a half) went about like you'd expect! I had minimal success but there was a little and I like it! The board could have been my twin, short and fat. The big plus is it was 1-1/2 hours at the beach, not the gym, and a pretty good workout.

Pete stick with it...there is a learning curve like anything else...there is more to life than a modern upwind/down wind race course...on a board you will rediscover reaching...and the only time a f16 or any other beach cat will match the speed of a high wind short board on a broad reach is when it's towed behind a car...forget 20 mph...think more along the lines of 40 after you get a few years of experience under your belt if you want to go that far with it. Just be forewarned that it is very addicting.

Well, being a rank novice it did take me about 10 minutes to rig down but I'm pretty sure I can cut that in half.

Fwiw, the Blade remains my number #1 ride. I just need something simpler at times.

That's why I have a jet ski.

Go Pete, do admire you though learning to windsurf as I had a lot of fun learning, never got beyond beach starting and failed at the water start learning bit.

Highlights were speed and more speed and yet more speed, quick to set up, grin factor, and the adrenaline buzz afterwards.

Downside was the physical until you can get a harness working well, the real defined stages where you have to put hours and hours in to suddenly move to the next stage, the scrapped shins when you end up getting dragged up the board by your harness and the walk of shame back along the beach towing your board and sail.

"jet ski". Thank God Florida has all but outlawed them!

I have no shame! If I did I'd have quit sailing long ago.

I'm looking at a JP Australia long board and 7.5m Ezzy sail, carbon mast and boom. I'm told longer is easier. 11' long but only 30 lbs. I'm not quite ready to buy yet so I still have time to mull it over.

Most learning boards are not long but relatively short and very wide ( stable ), the more experianced you get the narrower the board but still in comparison to even a few years ago, short.

7.5m sail is too big, not so much as powerful but more to learn the handling of the sail, once you can tack, gybe and generally get about with a harness, then the bigger sails come into play.

Go onto some of the windsurfing forums and ask there as I'm sure they will be able to give you more informed and better advice. Good learning.

Pete - For beginning and fun boards, it's tough to go wrong here:

http://www.star-board.com/2012/products/boards/index.php?id=start

I'll give it a look but I don't want to get into trading equipment every few months.

Second lesson tomorrow, weather permitting. There are bound to be improvements because I can't do any worse!

Pete,

If you get into this, you had better not start your "search for experience from behind a keyboard" bit with the windsurfing group. Cat sailors have nothing on the windsurfing guys when it comes to varied opinions and "suggestions" on what you have to have/buy in order to make the things work. Sails, masts, boom, boards, foils ALL different - but all you really nead is a bazzillion hours water time and you might be pulling off a planning jibe.

Have fun man.

Actually, I already did. Maybe I just got lucky but it was civil and well reasoned. The general opinion is that longer is easier and more stable, can be fast, but is not as maneuverable. As I have no illusions about doing flips in the surf, that's not a problem.

Seems these long board are a throw back to the past and a way to combine SUP (stand up paddling- something I never intend to do) and beginner/intermediate skill levels.

Good for you Pete. When I want to go out in a blow, I'll keep taking out a Hobie Wave.

better bring your wallet then..$$

What do you weight in KG?
Board sizes are always measured in volume of liters, basic rules is that a board needs to be equal to your weight in order to float when not planing.
Length is not that relevant, actually short and wide boards are a bit more stable.
You would probably need a board of around 150 liters, that will be big enough to stand on and lift the sail out of the water (test some to see what you like).
For a first sail I would get a 5.5m sail, anything bigger will be hard to sail without a trapeze.
Rule for sail sizes is that your next sail must be around 20% bigger (5.5-6.6-8 for example) thats why there are so many different sail sizes.

Someone posted the Starboard website earlier, their Carve line of boards are perfect for beginner and intermediate windsurfers.

What would you say Tony about windsurfers vs kitesailing for beginners in strongish winds?

I've sailed the Wave a couple of times. I like it on the water but what a pita to move around the beach! That long straight "keel?" is something I'm not gonna put up with! Besides, the whole point is to have something that stows away and rigs quickly, but takes up very little room. A Wave is a boat; I have two I don't need a third.

Rolf- no worries I wouldn't get near a kite!

It depends on a few things, for both gusty conditions are difficult for beginners (maybe a it harder for windsurfing).
Water depth is another, water-starting is easier with a kite.

There are lots of places where they give kitesurf lessons in very strong winds (30kts), you just use a smaller kite.
Before going out on the water students get to learn with a small trainer kite to get a feel of how to steer, and the first time out on the water is without a board anyway.

Pete: You really should take a kitesurf lesson as well, just for comparison.

They offer both at the shop I'm using. But, not a chance! I was watching those guys with all the strings and ****, definitely not for me. I already have a spin boat, why would I want more strings?

Depending on the sailors weight I think windsurfing and kitesurfing both have their strong points.
As a 100kg + windsurfer I needed a lot of wind to get up on a plane, or a sail that was really large. I imagine a kite would have powered me up earlier and been easier to manage.

I sold my sailboard kit 5 years ago. If I was to go back, I would probably go for a kite.

Do a youtube search for the kite guy that got beat to death against a condo when his kite took him across a highway at altitude.

If I decide to learn to fly, I want something with wings.

It's super cheap to operate, and I can get it in the water in about thirty seconds. Mines a standup ski, its a work out, and has made me a better snowmobiler.

I couldn't ride it as often as I sail, and I do get bored after a few hours. But its still fun.

It is a wailing, banshee mosquito from hell! A pox on them all!

Well, I suppose technically I'm a windsurfer, having managed to sail the board through 360 degress. The first hour was impossible the second hour only slightly better (sailing backward for awhile unintentionally). Tomorrow is another day...

good work Pete. I'd briefly considered picking the sport back up when I was donating my (at the time) extensive inventory to the Ft. Myers sailing club (4 boards, 7-8 sails, countless masts, fins, booms, etc). Back injury prevents me from regaining a lot of the skills I used to have (this sport seems to involve a lot of twisting and odd angles)

I was heavy into it in the early-90's when they were just starting out with hollow boards and carbon mast/booms (and G10 foils). Had everything from a 12' longboard (with centerboard) and an 11.0 m2 sail down to an 8'2" board and a 2.9 m2 sail (for tropical storm sailing - yes I was that stupid) which I used a couple of times.

Seems the most used stuff in my inventory was the 9'2" board (narrow) and 6.7 m2 sail (cambered). I could use that in roughly 12-15 kts and get on a plane, or use it in light/medium surf (east coast FL) without too much effort. Enough bouyancy to plane through a gybe, enough sail to waterstart even in lighter air.

Round here with relatively flat waters and light air, you could probably be fine with a slightly larger sail (7.0), but the smaller the sail, the easier it is to toss through a duck gybe.

I bought a long board (SUP/windsurfer really), 10' 9", carbon mast/boom, 7.5m sail.

The plan is to sail the Blade in the morning, learn the windsurfer in the afternoon. I'm curios to hear what reality says.

Windsurfing is awesome, I really miss it. I started out on a 104L Tiga (1990) board (not sure of the length), and a 9m Gastra sail. I was about 70kg then and the 104 liters held me up fine. My friend, at 85kg sunk on it. Jibes were the hardest thing for me to get down. Make sure you get a harness because it's a godsend when your hands are trashed from doing a lot of waterstarts. A good fin/skeg is also a must in 20mph+ winds, or else you'll always be spinning out.

We used to take annual trips to the Columbia River Gorge at Hood River Oregon. I almost moved up there is was so crazily fun and addicting. There we would regularly use 4-5 meter sails (Neil Prydes). I once threw up my 9 meter sail, for kicks, in constant 25 mph winds and it was insanely hilarious.

About the only con to windsurfing is that you're alone on the water. That can be a big negative if you like hanging out and goofing off with friends on the cat in light winds.

Hope you're having a blast!

Is any manufacturer selling a combo long board/paddle board? Seems you could use the same board for both, sail it when there's some wind, and paddle it when it's too light.

Years ago (1983) when I got into windsurfing, I started with a clasic Windsurfer long board, then got a shorter board (Aiken 911) once I learned how to water start. Sadly both boards are long gone (destroyed by my kids), I still have the masts/sails in the garage though.

I know the new boards are very light and carbon, so I would think there must be a long board that could double as a paddle board.

Yes, that's what I bought though I've no intention of paddling. Longer is easier, more stable, or so I'm told.

Well it's just simply physics, a longer, wider board is going to be more stable...BUT...if/when you want to go out in big wind and go faster, and jump waves, and do duck-gybes, and barrel rolls, etc. you need a short board to do that.

A long board is great for learning, but just like racing cats, as soon as you 'master' the one you have, you want to get something faster!

I'm sure this will be you, by this time next summer Pete, jumping those huge waves just off Marco Island! ;^)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfN3WwI6qAM

I just hope this guy is NOT your instructor! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEXMaOOJQck&feature=related

I've posted this before, it's all I have in mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIvGXLznh2w

This board looks like it would be big enough to also use as a paddle board, is that about what you bought?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GbSXn37f5k&feature=related

Kona makes a board for windsurfing and SUP, very cool designs as well:
http://www.konaone.com/

http://www.jp-australia.com/2012/index.php?id=687

I got the WS GL 10'8" with Ezzy 7.5 meter sail, carbon mast, and carbon boom.

Thanks Tony, that looks like what I was thinking about.

Did you get out on it today? It was very light air over here today, but yesterday was excellent, 15-20 after about 2:30pm, I got out on the Blade for two hours from 2:30-4:30, great fast fun! But today was pretty dead.

Pete: Are'nt you into Yoga as well?

Maybe you could give this a try:

NO! I don't need an audience so I stay home at weekends. Tue. & Thurs. are look stupid days.

Tony: you first! Send pix.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgv9ui_hydrofoil-windsurfing_sport#

I just watched the Tampa weather girl, she said west at 15+ today, so I'll be out on the Blade if I get all my Honey Do's done by 2pm or so.

When I learned to windsurf, I asked a local short-board hot shot, "How long does it take?" He said, "It takes 400 falls. You can do them all in one weekend, 200 a day, or spread it out over a month or two, but you won't get the hang of it until you've fallen off at least 400 times!"

I didn't keep count but I think he was right. All that uphauling the mast/sail (see the 'instructor' video above) on the long board is a lot of work and my back was aching for days, and I was only 23 then!

Once I got the hang of it, no biggie, and when I finally got a shorter board, a harness, and learned to water start, it was really much easier and more fun. But when you are first learning, you want flat water and very little wind, so don't go out in 15+ to learn, or you'll spend all day falling over.

I have this 2nd childhood fantasy: every Tuesday and Thursday morning I get up early, load the board on top of the Blade, drive to the Causeway, rig the Blade and sail until the Thunderstorms start showing on the horizon, rig the Blade down, then grab the board work on learning that until the "no see ums" come out or lightening forces me off the beach. We'll see what reality says...

Just make sure it's an on-shore wind when you are learning to windsurf! Otherwise you may end up being blwon way out to sea!

wow... Got the 4ksb to finally make 5.5 kts Satuday on a beam reach in Tampa Bay. Probably blowing 15 true. C&C 36 with centerboard. What a nice day to be on the bay... Made me wonder what an beachcat would do...


At one point in my life, I thought that was a "fast" sail. How times have changed.

Grommets got a little woozy in the rolling motion, so had to flatten it out to a broad reach which helped.. Need to get them out more to get sea legs (or mermaid tails in their case) OR maybe buy a nice 45' cruising cat with my future lottery winnings. Whatever they had as the RC on the yellow (outside) course at T-winds this year would do nicely....

I believe that was Taylor Reis's Parrent's boat, and yeah, that would be a great "Family Boat"!!

Jay, take the family out on a Corsair next time, there's no bobing back and forth and getting sea sick on one of those.

When my twins were about 3, and Tom was about 8mo. we went out on a Corsair F24 with Bob Gleason and his two young boys, about 2+4yrs. old I think.

So there were three adults (Bob, my wife, me) and 5 kids, (one was a baby) and had a great day out on Buzzard's Bay. Even though it was only 24', there was plenty of room with the two tramps outside the ****. My wife stayed in the ****, while my twins went to lay on the low side tramp and watch the waves roll under, while Bob and I sailed from the high side ama.

When we first got on the boat, my wife's one 'rule' was, "NO SPINNAKERS! Things always go wrong when you put up that Spinnaker!" (from one bad broach on my J24).

So...well...you know we HAD to put it up!

As soon as she went down below to breast feed, Bob very quietly snuck it up through the bow hatch, and we put it up without a word spoken, just pointing and nodding, and we were going off on a good reach when she came back topside. She looks up and says, "HEY! WHAT's THAT??!!" pointing up at the chute.

Bob without missing a beat says, "That? Oh, that's just a big jib..."

Well since it was bright red, and all the other sails were white, she didn't buy it, but she didn't complain either, as we were toodling along about 10 knots, flat and smooth, with all the kids on the high side now, loving it.

On the drive home she said, "Well, that didn't tip nearly as much as the J24, I guess you can get one of those."

Bob suggested I get a beach cat to learn more about multihull sailing while waiting to scrape up the dough for a Corsair. This was June of 1996.

About a month later Delta closed the Boston crew base and displaced me to ATL, and we finally decided to move to FL a year later. My Corsair savings went to buy the house down here. At least I can go out on the dock, lie down on my back, listen to the wind and waves and pretend I'm sailing across the ocean on a real boat!

I did get a beach cat once we got down here, but I'm still waiting for those twins (and 6 horses) to get off my payroll so I can get a Corsair!

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/in...;pid=3738023&st=50&#entry3738023

Down at the bottom of the page there's a picture you guys have to see. You'll know it when you see it.

Are you talking about the Guitar boat?

No. Keep looking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4znK_XdzUM

I've seen this before but ran across it on the "Crazysailors" channel while looking for a coffe break vid.

"while some might say he's crazy......"

Yeah, ya think? Certifiable.

more like "death wish", but can you imagine the adrenaline?

Hell, the windsurfer is my attempt to avoid adrenalin! 12-15 knots on the Blade, solo, with a gust over 20 is more adrenalin than I care for.

I was hoping to do a little of this though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlzhV6eNv3g&feature=related

Pete, nice that they named a Tropical Storm after your wife!

Now, get on your windsurfer and get out there!

I hope you are not flooded out down there, my lake has come up about a foot, but still needs to come up another 5 feet to make up for the past 5 years of drought. It's blowing 30 up here in Sebring, how's it down there?

About the same, been this way for three days. I'm guessing we got a gust or two as high as fifty. Some of the down pours are maximum! Frequent too. No standing water in my neighborhood but I'm sure some of the low areas are having problem at high tide.

I think I'll be using the windsurfer in the kiddie pool for quite awhile!

haven't been to the beach yet, but I would suspect a grinding side-on breeze/chop. Short board for sure. Maybe a 5.0m2 sail? I think it's about 20 with gusts up around 30

Hi Pete!

You will not regret it. Windsurfing is incredible.

We sail and absolutely love our Blade - cat sailing and windsurfing are compatible.

The best racing for boards currently is in Formula. Our Formula kit also gets the most recreational time on the water of all the boards.

Recreational "Freeride / free slalom" type boards are more durable and less expensive. The wind range is narrower though.

Once you get in the straps and harness- it will get you.
-colin