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Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. #257650
02/20/13 06:21 PM
02/20/13 06:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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What are the Likes and Dislikes of your current boat.I am shopping for a new F-18 and want to get as much info as I can. I have been going to look at and sail as many different designs as possible.

Please only comment on boats you have experience sailing. I don't want this to turn into a brand verses brand fight. Just what you think about your boat and what you would like to change if you could.

Boats in the running for me are C2, Wildcat, Infusion, Cirrus R, Phantom, Capricorn(New Design.), Falcon F-18.

Last edited by F-18 5150; 02/21/13 11:26 AM.

Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
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Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257717
02/21/13 06:05 PM
02/21/13 06:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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They're all over weight pigs. Get an F16....

Hat.
Coat.
Door.


I'm boatless.
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257720
02/21/13 08:00 PM
02/21/13 08:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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F-18 5150  Offline OP
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Coming from someone who is 6'4" and and an I.Q. of 64 that's about what I expect from you.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257721
02/21/13 08:08 PM
02/21/13 08:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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6'-2" & 62. Get it straight yo.

*sigh* damn it....


I'm boatless.
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257722
02/21/13 10:35 PM
02/21/13 10:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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My bad sorry Karl.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257724
02/22/13 05:51 AM
02/22/13 05:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Actually Karl, according to the rules, YOUR boat is the overweight pig! wink

Rich, I think you are making it difficult for people to comment if you don't want them to say anything about the boat they own smile
I doubt you will regret buying any of the boats that you mentioned, have raced the Wildcat and Infusion, both are fast but Infusion is maybe a bit more forgiving.

Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257725
02/22/13 08:11 AM
02/22/13 08:11 AM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Rich, I've only been on 2 F18 platforms, the Tiger and my Infusion. I am very happy with the Infusion, downwind it is extremely forgiving (coming from the N20, also very forgiving), and it tracks like it is on rails upwind.

I think all the major platforms are fast in capable hands. My take is the Wildcat has the narrowest groove and is the most difficult to sail downwind, difficult being relative (I watched as Mischa walked away on his in narly conditions). Many of the good U.S sailors in the class are on C2's, for what that's worth.

Truthfully I would get the boat with the best dealer support. There are also plenty of nearly new used boats on the market that I would be picking before a brand new boat.

Last edited by samc99us; 02/22/13 08:16 AM.

Scorpion F18
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: samc99us] #257729
02/22/13 09:53 AM
02/22/13 09:53 AM
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Truthfully I would get the boat with the best dealer support. There are also plenty of nearly new used boats on the market that I would be picking before a brand new boat.


+1

I've had the pleasure of sailing on 2-3 platforms with a variety of rigging setups. At my level I think all of the boats sailed quite well. There were some rigging setups I preferred for ease of use, but may be less efficient than some of the more complicated setups (for instance, the single spin halyard/ tack line vs. separate, aft-led downhaul controls, "quick set" rotator release)

I would definitely pick one with good (local) dealer support. If I was really concerned with close racing, I'd go with the type most common in my sailing area.

If I wanted lots of pickle dishes, I'd drop a Sheet-load of money and time on training and pick any boat.


Jay

Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: Karl_Brogger] #257743
02/22/13 11:57 AM
02/22/13 11:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
They're all over weight pigs. Get an F16....

Hat.
Coat.
Door.


So are you finally going to wise up and pick up an F16 of the proper weight? Oh wait... their is a movement to fix that isn't there.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: David Ingram] #257763
02/22/13 05:35 PM
02/22/13 05:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Originally Posted by David Ingram


So are you finally going to wise up and pick up an F16 of the proper weight? Oh wait... their is a movement to fix that isn't there.


Ya know, this probably sounds like we're being ass4oles to an outsider. lol

I'm trying! You know how hard it is to convince Greg to build me a carbon beamed, pre-preg/carbon/autoclaved/nomex cored Viper? Its not quite like ordering a pizza. Then there's paying for the mf'er.....


I'm boatless.
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257766
02/22/13 08:21 PM
02/22/13 08:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
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My 0.02

I am probably not an F18 connoisseur yet, but am starting to learn what I like and dislike.

Really happy with the build quality of the new (to me) C2 I acquired a few months ago.

Hulls- Really like the quality of the fiberglass layup, lack of stress cracks, etc. Platform with bedded beams seems incredibly stiff.

Rigging- Mast/sail seems to respond well to cunningham adjustments.
- Realize this is not 100% specific to a C2, but grommets on the tramp allow the spin halyard and retrieval loop to be run under the tramp - very clean.

From a handling standpoint, I had sailed both a Tiger and an older Nacra F18 last year and the C2 seems to tack much more quickly. Seems to sit higher up in the water and perhaps have a bit more rocker. Could be true of other newer gen boats with more hull volume/rocker.

Have not had a chance to exercise the service side of the equation, but have heard good things.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: Karl_Brogger] #257780
02/23/13 12:15 PM
02/23/13 12:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger

Ya know, this probably sounds like we're being ass4oles to an outsider. lol


Speak for yourself Brogger, I'm an absolute delight.

As for the good and bad with the F18... it's a so so ride and it's a bit short. The big positive to the class is the talent and numbers it attracts and the surprisingly small number of princesses in the class, well wait there might be one or two.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257781
02/23/13 12:25 PM
02/23/13 12:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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Thanks everyone for the input on this thread. The purpose of this was to find out the "Quirks" of the boats that I might not find on a single test drive.

Something you love tell me about it. Something you don't tell me here or a private message if there is something you don't want to post in a public forum.



Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257789
02/24/13 10:18 AM
02/24/13 10:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
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wildtsail7 Offline
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I've owned 4 F18s in the last 4 years so I think I can comment well, I've never sailed a Cirrus or Falcon.
2009 Infusion: Sailed great but I felt for our heavy weight we were pushing the wide part of the hulls down a lot in the medium breeze range and slowing us down. Super light air it was never a problem.
Still the best boat I've sailed in big breeze downwind.
HUGE quality issues. Cracks in hull joint, airbombs in gelcoat, it was a chore to keep up with and not worth fixing all of it.
2011 Wildcat There were times where this boat was a blast to sail. It had some amazing modes upwind and downwind but we could only keep it in those modes about 60% of the time, kind of making it a one trick pony. Overall it was extremely hard to sail. Very hard to sail in light - medium air as it was hard to get back into a groove after a tack. It was difficult to sail in choppy conditions heavy conditions and we have always excelled in big conditions. We never had a problem in rolling waves in big wind. The hull quality seemed good but we heard some cracking noises that led me to believe there were interior issues, though this could have just been this boat. It comes with the oem best rope / hardware kit out of any f18 I've sailed, it's very ready to race from the factory.
We thought long and hard about going back to an infusion but there were a few things that kept me from doing so 1) track record with quality 2) track record with customer service in the US 3) I never liked the downhaul system, as it can't be truly continuous 4) medium air performance as I mentioned above.
The MKII does seem to have sorted out most of their quality issues and the new US distributor for Nacra does seem to be a bit more responsive (in my limited dealings with them).
So we ended up with a 2011 C2 and now we have a 2012. Overall this is my favorite boat so far (full disclosure I am a rep for AHPC). While the Wildcat had some amazing points upwind, the C2 feels to be the fastest upwind in all conditions. We've also never been so competitive downwind in light to medium air. I think does give up a little tiny bit to the infusion in big chop but this very minor in the big picture.
My only dislikes of the C2 are that there is a very occasional rear beam slap, we never had this on the infusion. The rudder system is great for buoys racing, very robust and little to go wrong. The Nacra style system is better for off the beach style distance racing, if that's what you're looking for.
I've also done a bit of sailing on Tigers and Capricorns several years ago. They are both excellent boats what for they are, entry level F18s. They both give up a bit in some conditions to the new F18s but can certainly still be competitive. Both are good quality with the Capricorns being a bit better. The Capricorn also has more of a more modern fit out more designed for buoys racing. The newer tigers had improved rigging.

Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257794
02/24/13 03:07 PM
02/24/13 03:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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Thanks WildTSail
Those are just the things I am looking for.
When you mention the Capricorn I am assuming that is the older designed Capricorn and not the newer one.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257808
02/25/13 12:46 PM
02/25/13 12:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Yes WildT is referencing the AHPC Capricorn Mk.1 best I can tell. None of the new PSA Capricorns, http://www.capricornsailing.com/, are stateside but I don't follow containers for a living.


Scorpion F18
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257812
02/25/13 02:44 PM
02/25/13 02:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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california
F-18 5150 Offline OP
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Looks like a nice ride too.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257820
02/26/13 05:30 AM
02/26/13 05:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Very confusing for PSA to name their new boat the same as an old design.

Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257824
02/26/13 09:10 AM
02/26/13 09:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Yes that is extremely confusing. At least they should have named it Mk. 2 or Mk. 3.

Rich, if I were buying a new boat tomorrow I would likely get a C2 or Falcon, for what it's worth. The PSA Capricorn is almost the same price as a Phantom, and the latter has a proven race record. Both don't have good dealer support in the U.S as best I can tell. The Cirrus hasn't been discussed, I think the verdict is still out on its performance. I probably wouldn't buy a new Infusion for the reasons WildT listed above. I picked mine up used in fantastic shape for half the price of a new boat but the sails are a 4 year old cut (even if practically brand new) and I don't have the long boards. If you have the budget for a brand new ride, you can get a sweet deal on some tricked out C2's, and a few Mk. 2 Infusions as well. MWR's tricked out Mk. 2 that placed in the top 10 at World's is still listed: http://www.naf18.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_annonces&view=annonces&Itemid=76


Scorpion F18
Re: Likes and Dislikes of your current boat. [Re: F-18 5150] #257833
02/26/13 12:03 PM
02/26/13 12:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39
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iMax Offline
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Hi Rich, I have sailed the Infusion and can confirm it is a great ride downwind with high winds and choppy seas. I do not hear very enthusiastic reports from people owning a Wild Cat. After being very dissatisfied with how i was being treated by Nacra Europe (after buying a new Nacra every 2 years for 12 years), i've switched to the Capricorn. I was really impressed with the build quality. The Cap was also really fast upwind , but could be a bit tricky downwind (on it's limts). Overall a great cat. Two years ago i've bought the C2. It has the same excellent build quality and upwind performance. The big plus is that it has much better downwind (high wind big wave) performance than the Cap. hence, they have solved the only issue with the Cap. There is only one thing i really don't like about AHPC's cats and that is their rudder system. It works well if you sail from a harbour. When you sail from a beach it's quite bad. I've got used to Nacra's fool proof rudder system and was really sad about AHPC's system. I managed to break the rudder stock on my maiden sail of my Capricorn (in virtually no surf at all). I've never got any reaction to my mail to Greg Goodall about my AHPC rudder experience. It's amazing how immature the catamaran business is. If my company would treat it's customers like many catamaran firm do, we would be out of business ;-). However, overall i'm very happy with my C2 and can recommend it to anybody who is looking for a great performing F18 that will stand the test of time.

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