Hi all,

could this be the future for the Mosquito, after all Mosquitos do fly in the wild.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5doBIv3TVbA

Saw that vid a week or so ago........ Must admit, it got me wondering .......

Mmmmmmmm foils ...... Possible ???

Can't see why not !!!!

Anyone want to drop me a bucketload of cash and I'll see what I can do

So we can't have a modern sail shape but our future is foiling? ..... LMFAO

Everyone knows square-tops are slow.
The proof? No boat that's added a square-top has ever had it's yardstick moved down (Taipan 4.9 Cat is 1/2 point SLOWER since it added the square top). If they are not going any faster with extra sail area it must be less efficient.
Ergo - square-tops are all about the look. Why bother?

Foils on the other hand, could make a difference.

Love your work Tim.

That's why you're the Sensei and I am but the humble apprentice!

I can see my mistake... Even though the square tops are going past me faster than when they had pinheads, they are doing it more slowly.. Or maybe they're going slower but doing it more quickly.... Who can know? Maybe it's the weight of all that extra Mylar

I think you could be on to something with your second theory - going slower but doing it more quickly.
This would totally account for YV's experts determining (from hard facts and figures) that the Taipans are now slower.
Either that or they used Bistromathics.

Enough of that - we are supposed to be talking about the foiling Mozzie.
Anybody been watching the AC72's racing? Not much of a race but impressive anyway.
Interesting that they've chosen to drag the foil upwind rather than use it. They reckon they go sideways too much if they foil. I wonder why the foil couldn't be more vertical on the long side to give more lateral resistance - rather than an upright V. There must be a good reason.

Simon I have no idea what that acronym means, but I'll take it as a insult (as intended) .

I guess you'd want foils twice as big as everybody else as well . That is what you mean by modern isn't it, bigger sails for heavy weights .

But seriously until somebody can come up with a viable answer to the mast problem, I can't see new sail plan being a option.

Taipan 4.9 with the same configuration as your avatar apparently 11% faster than you , handicap now 69 down from 74

Gary, not sure why you feel the need to hand out and receive insults on a regular basis but hey... Not my concern. No insult given or implied.

For your information and edification, the acronym stands for " laughing my f*ing butt off" which is in fairly common use in social networking circles.

What I was laughing about was the likelihood of a rule change allowing foiling ever getting up when the concept of a change in sail shape causes such horror in the ranks.

I don't consider myself heavy at 90kg and consider it an advantage in the conditions I often find myself sailing in. I most certainly don't feel the need for anything twice as big as anyone else. I enjoy my sailing, and the comradery that goes along with it. I don't care to put in the effort to be the fastest, and remind everyone how fast I am ad nauseum. I'm pretty sure that job is already taken anyway. (ok.... That one might have been intended or implied... A man's gotta defend himself . )

As to the mast problem.... Not being at all qualified in such engineering or geometry problems, it seems to me that with our current section, the added pressure up top on a square top would cause the top section of the mast to lay off inappropriately. Could this not be solved by the addition of a small spreader and diamonds above the hounds? Is that the only problem perceived or are there other limitations? It would be good to hear thoughts from anyone with experience/skills in this regard ..... Discuss....

With reference to Tim's reference, my bistromathics suggest that it might be a solution.

Cheers

A set of jumpers would fix the lay off problem, but need it removable for the normal sailing.

i have been thinking about putting on a double diamond rig as it stiffens the mast a hell of a lot, with 2 spreaders or have longer spreaders but they may rip sails cos they are too long.

What is a set of jumpers Matt?


err... I worked it out.

99% of the above is none of my business, however, I thought you might be interested in the following.

Last week with my main still in the post on its way back from Landy I did a race on the Taipan with my old pin head main. Now old is an interesting term as this sail came with my boat when I bought it 12 months ago but having a looked at it on the weekend I'd say it has been used less than a 5 or six times, it is mint. Conditions were 15-20 knots. Upwind speed was similar although the sail was a lot less "automatic" and had to be more actively trimmed in gusts. On a gust beam reach it was a rocket ship as there was a lot less moment forcing the bows down in gusts so I could just grip it and rip it. Downwind it was a dog and I lost 30-40m on the leaders on each of the 5 downwind legs. Overall I finished in the same position in the fleet I would normally expect to, but a little further behind the leaders than I would have expected having sailed quite well.

Taipan's definately became more of a beast on reaches and down wind with the big head sail and with reduced volume fwd I think this would be an even bigger issue on the Mossie, to the extent that you'd probably find you ended up slower around the course, particularly if you had to add weight aloft to support the sail area.

thanks for the comments... Interesting reading

Was never thinking far enough down the line for rule changes, Mossie doesn't need that to foil. More just that I reckon it would be possible, if the cat in the Video can do it why not a Mossie.

Just think of the advantages, no banging the beams on waves, no problem with bouyancy of the hulls. Just another way to enjoy sailing.

There is nothing in the mossie rules that would stop you building a foiling boat.

mmmm... just looked at the rules. They are a little thin regarding boards and rudders. Out on the wire, kite up, foiling in a blow.... wouldn't want to sneeze

Also, some good news Gary. I picked up my Kite this week so now you'll be able to beat me in two classes!

Time to join this forum!
Please read rule #18 Prohibited Fittings.
18.1 Hydrofoils, outriggers, ballast, suction bailers, keel bands......., rubbing strakes, spray deflectors, chines, and any projection from the skin other than normal fittings.
As much as I enjoy foil sailing and have had experience in this dynamic form of sailing since the early 1970's, any discussion about mossies foiling is OK by me but any suggestions the BR&R do not prohibit them is incorrect.
Hydrofoils are a prohibited item in the current BR&R, call them what you like, place them where you like, 18.1 still applies.
I don't want to put a sinking hole in the discussion but I do want the forum to contain sensible statements that will encourage newbies to the class to be reassured it is governed by the rules of the class. ie their newly purchased or constructed boats will not be made obsolete within the life of their interest in the class.
I personally have witnessed first hand what some may consider the ultimate in foil sailing and it is awe inspiring, something that a great deal of classes are investigating. Some classes will never foil, too heavy, some the cost will be prohibitive. But as mentioned, keep dreaming but lets be realistic and keep the class unified.

it gets quite interesting when you start running a scale ruler over foiling boats and compare it to the humble mozzie....

Thanks for keeping us on the "straight & narrow" Phillip.

The devil is in the detail..... didn't read that far.

Still, might have a play with some curved boards one day though... just to dream

I made the same mistake, just checked the rudder and centreboard clauses. Having said that the above rule (18.1) actually bans rudders and daggers boards too. Intent of the rule is clear, wording however is very poor.