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Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272271
05/09/14 09:28 AM
05/09/14 09:28 AM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
It was a random thought...I have other ideas, but none get the traveler to the crew on the wire upwind when you need it.


Scorpion F18
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272282
05/09/14 02:24 PM
05/09/14 02:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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I like the idea of a continuous traveler line on the trap wire. If the cleats were 2'ish in from the end of the beam it may be pretty controllable from sitting on the deck.

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272287
05/10/14 05:08 PM
05/10/14 05:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
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wildtsail7 Offline
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In the 5 seasons I've been racing f18s I've dropped the traveler once because of breeze. It's a complete last resort. I don't think it's worth spending the time to route to the traps.
Now distance racing it's dropped a bit more.

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272299
05/11/14 05:58 AM
05/11/14 05:58 AM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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I want my skipper to have it available as peace of mind that she could dump it in an emergency. It seems that if it went directly to the trap that it could be a little cleaner during tacks.

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272310
05/12/14 09:29 AM
05/12/14 09:29 AM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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I agree with Todd it is a last ditch resort as far as upwind in breeze is concerned. We play it a bit more downhill, but then the skipper is on the boat. It would be good to hear from some Nacra 17 teams on what they are doing with the traveler downwind double wired.

Bach,

This isn't trivial...I threw it out there to get the minds thinking, but in my head it isn't possible. The crew is on the helms wire downwind and I don't want anything attached to that wire to trip me up in my already clumsy jibes (just ask Keki Figueroa). I also don't want the helm to get tripped up on the traveler in the tacks.

What's the verdict of center sheeting off the boom?


Scorpion F18
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272313
05/12/14 10:33 AM
05/12/14 10:33 AM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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I got out my spare 10:1 and reeved it to make she the sheet I have for it will be long enough for center sheeting. I also marked out where I thought my blocks on tramp and boom should go. I don't know when I will get around to removing the tramp and making the mod but I'm guessing it will not be until the summer. My next race is a short distance race, I'm thinking I am going to use the tried and true system for that and then play with center sheeting around some buoys later in the summer.

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272315
05/12/14 01:00 PM
05/12/14 01:00 PM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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I wouldn't make a major change like this before an event...needs at least a weekend of practice me thinks.

I've been reading a few threads on here and elsewhere. Haven't found a great photo, but I'm thinking of running the terminated end of the sheet through another block on the bottom, to a turning block on the boom and forward to a head-banger style block sitting right on the boom that the crew can sheet from. The current lazy end of the sheet would stay rigged the way it normally is, for the helm downwind.

A few other notes:

1) AHPC uses a different style boom for mid or center sheeting (beefier), 50mm diameter x 1.6mm wall thickness. According to wouter anyway, so that data may be incorrect.

2) Some teams have an additional block to create a 2:1 floating purchase between the back of the boom and center of the boom. Your purchase is increased but you are limited in the amount of sheeting you can do from the mid point

3) Darren Bundock has a normal aft 10:1 purchase system on his C2 used at Catacup. Keep it simple stupid.


Scorpion F18
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272317
05/12/14 02:30 PM
05/12/14 02:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 380
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline OP
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I'll have pics and measurements of my setup posted on Friday.

One other advantage I thought of was the more perpendicular pull of the sheet from the middle of the tramp would allow a better trapping/hiking angle. Its not just easier, but should also get your CG further out.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272318
05/12/14 02:44 PM
05/12/14 02:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
Jeff,

Thanks Jeff! That's one of the bigger advantages I can see in breeze. I suspect more boats aren't rigged this way because the crew is variable. With my setup idea, it shouldn't matter too much, as the skipper can still drive it from the back like they do already.

-Sam


Scorpion F18
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272410
05/17/14 05:36 AM
05/17/14 05:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 380
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline OP
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As promised here are the pics. Not saying this setup is right, wrong, or optimal. Simply what I got when I bought the boat. I assume it is representative of what AHPC was selling as an option at the time (circa 2010). I have higher resolution versions of the pics if needed.

Overview
[Linked Image]

Measurement from aft edge of front beam to center of main block eyestrap 42 " = ~1.073m
[Linked Image]

Measurement from aft end of boom to turning block 50 " = ~1.283m (sorry for the parallax)
[Linked Image]

Measurement from fore end of boom to turning block 40 " = ~1.022m Note that the turning block straps had apparently been moved foreword approx 3 " from their original location. PO never mentioned why.
[Linked Image]

Tramp reinforcement (viewed from under the tramp) No idea what the second grommet is for behind the main block.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by rehmbo; 05/17/14 05:37 AM.

Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272411
05/17/14 06:01 AM
05/17/14 06:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Thanks Jeff,

That is a little farther back than I was imagining. If it was further forward to be equal with that block on the retrieval line, do you see it as a problem with running other things near the front of the boat?

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #272431
05/19/14 06:12 AM
05/19/14 06:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 380
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline OP
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SE MI / NE IN
If it were further forward, it might require the crew to cross behind it, crowding the back half of the tramp. Otherwise it shouldn't be an issue as long as the spin sheets are properly routed/managed.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #273122
06/09/14 09:58 PM
06/09/14 09:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
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Is there a reason you cant have a turning block and cleat on the boom versus having it on the tramp. I am thinking a turning block and cleat like we use on the spin halyard.


Collin Casey
Infusion Platform + C2 rig and rags = one fast cookie
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #273124
06/09/14 11:44 PM
06/09/14 11:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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you could potentially be pulling the boom over the windward side of the boat in light to medium weather.


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: Dazz] #273267
06/18/14 12:27 AM
06/18/14 12:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
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Victoria, Australia
Originally Posted by Dazz
you could potentially be pulling the boom over the windward side of the boat in light to medium weather.


I think 49'ers and other boats have done it that way for ages

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #273269
06/18/14 02:06 AM
06/18/14 02:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
Dazz Offline
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true, but the 49'er has their main sheet setup with a V so that it can't be pulled to windward.

its probably wouldn't happen but still...
[Linked Image]


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #275397
09/16/14 05:32 AM
09/16/14 05:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Greenville SC
Jeff,

Got my tramp modded and ordering the blocks finally.

I have a 10:1 system that I was basically planning to run upside down with the cleat removed of course. Do you see a reason why I would need the additional single block at the rear of the boom?

Where is the ratchet in your system? My 10:1 stack is not equipped with one. debating on one on the boom or the tramp.

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #275430
09/16/14 04:42 PM
09/16/14 04:42 PM

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Scarecrow
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The single block aligns to the loads better cutting down wear and friction. You can get close to fixing the issue by locking the top block at 90 degrees to the boom and/or leaving the guides from the cleat in place as it will force the top block into alignment.

Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #275464
09/17/14 02:09 PM
09/17/14 02:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
You still want all of your purchase at the back of the boat don't you, and not pulling on the middle of the boom?


I'm boatless.
Re: Center Sheeting [Re: rehmbo] #275468
09/17/14 08:10 PM
09/17/14 08:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 380
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline OP
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SE MI / NE IN
I have a Ronstan auto-ratchet RF56121 on the tramp. Its mounted upside down relative to the pic on the link here: http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF56121


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
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