Well, I tried...

Mike

So, OK. in the plus column we have:
- We should have winglets because it could potentially make the boat easier to sail.

On the other hand we have established:
- if the boat has some pitch-pole tendency, the races could be more exciting to watch
- winglets might change the tuning or sailing technique of the boat causing teams to have lost a lot of time and energy learning to sail the boat to date
- winglets might induce some other type of issue.

I fail to believe that nobody can safely navigate A-mark on the Nacra 17. It's only that the lifting foil makes your mistake bigger when you push it too hard. I PROMISE you, the winners aren't stuffing it at the top of the course.

On the bright side, at least he's let go of the mixed vs. unisex crew topic...

Mike

Fun videos coming in from that race. I don't know what they are doing competing in a high wind zone when the Brazil medals will, in all probability, be won in the light stuff.

There look to be quite a few non-cat sailors racing this new boat learning how to pitchpole, and presumably figuring out how not to pitch. The right winglets would help, but they seem to do just fine w/o them. People have shown that you can still pitchpole with very large winglets.

I think raising a C board would make the nose dive more not less. Raising the boards in the strong wind reduces healing moment, but gets rid of the bow lifting that the curved boards were giving.

ps i agree that the medal race with double points adds to the luck factor, and was prolly put there by administrators for the fan's benefit.

When you put a lot of pressure on the bows and they start to get deeper in the water to resist that pressure, those C-boards that previously had a positive angle of attack and were providing lift, are now providing a diving force. They actually force the bows to go deeper and the pitch poll (or stuffing) more severe.

In other words, when they stop being part of the solution, they become part of the problem REALLY fast!

Thanks for the vid post...

That is my favorite disaster move... a peter pan (maybe tinkerbell in the god for saken MIXED displine) off the back of the boat... into a stuff and then right into a turtle...

It looked like the wave action was a bigger factor then the wind... It sure doesn't look like 30 knots ...does it?

So... T foils or more bow in a longer boat... Oh... you don't say... ISAF choose NEITHER! Wonder why?
(Jake explained why if you put the C foils on... you have to put the T foils on as well... so thanks for helping make my point! (grin)

I wonder why other classes never thought that marketing crash and burn disaster flicks was the way to grow the sport... they must be stupid or something.

Sadly, ISAF did put cat sailors on these committees...and so we own the result.

Or, you could look at this another way. There are plenty of safe (and slow and boring) boats from which to choose while chasing Olympic gold.

Mike

Were you paying attention to one of the greatest America's Cup's ever? (and, no, I'm not talking about the fact that they had foils on the rudders). The boats were on the verge of wiping out and it was exciting.

They were in 20-25knots of breeze in giant surf rounding the top of the course with the crew on the wire. Umm..yeah, they're pushing it probably a little harder than they needed to be. Don't blame the boat.

Actually NO... i don't remember the boats on the verge of wiping out... Fact of the matter.. they put wind limits on to MAKE SURE the boats had little chance of crashing...

What I remember was the incredible racing where the winner figured out their boat resulting in an epic RACING comeback.

What I remember is the one almost wipe out came when the guys hydralic failed and the wing did not pop.

In fact... had the AC been about crashing and burning... and avoiding sudden death... chances are there would be no more cats in the event..

Pitchpoles and turtles are NOT winning messages.

Sooooo...you mean to tell me you watched that entire AC without being the least bit worried one of the boats might wipe out? I just don't think you are being realistic. Disaster being a possibility was the whole point of the new boat and format.

http://youtu.be/TFjxEfg_mEw?t=2m8s
http://youtu.be/yoOjcDf_dJA
http://youtu.be/ukY6pQk3d2k?t=14m14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhZpCK8kwds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRW21FubyY4

"ALL IS WELL"

Right... 4 videos... one of the equipment fail that almost resulted in a capsize... the equivalent of a bad wrap on your spin sheet in a monhull leading to a broach.
Not a half baked design issue... (that you agree with me on actually)

The second vid is of a stuff which slowed the boat..... IE a racing Fail... not a boat that was over matched by the conditions and going to crash... (granted they had legislated that possibility out of the race)

And of course the design failures that happened before the racing.

Don't take my point to an absurdity... the boats are supposed to be exciting and challenging... They just should not have correctable bad manners because the Administrators of the game made some bad choices.

Finally you can't compare the AC which is a design and racing, push it to the limit competition with OLYMPIC Competition in strict one design boats.... The entire POINT of the olympics is to medal multihull sailors on their demonstrated sailing skill... not luck or boat design.

oops.. I thought Jake was referencing the C class "little America's Cup"...

nah... the issue is this picture


What the hell is the guy in the background doing?

I'm with Jake on this one. While winglets may be a good addition next time, watching sporty boats that are always on the verge of wiping out is may more entertaining. The AC72s fill that role well as well.

If you guys had sailed a boat with winglets you'd probably think differently. I hate that I have to agree with Mark on this but those boats do need them. Short of clearing weed/ trash from your rudders, there would be no ill effects to tuning or training and the boats would be able to be pushed harder i.e go faster and still give the opportunity for even bigger carnage. It should be about equal boats but they should also be sorted so the teams can beat each other tactically.If all they want out of multihulls is crash and burn they should have put the N-17 rig on a 14' x 7' wide platform. Would you guys be justifying that as well?

http://www.catsailor.org/movies/n17swims.mp4

I wish this video went for longer. the carnage is pretty awesome to watch.

he he
Just as a matter of principle?... or do we love each other today? he he

Anyway... when the sailors refuse to sail off the beach because of the conditions.. OR... they put in a wind max and min for racing. ... You will know if I am right.

Pretty much matter of principle...always.