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Mast Bend #27776
01/12/04 08:59 PM
01/12/04 08:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline OP
old hand
hobiegary  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
I have plenty of opinion on mast bend but have you guys seen this new technique used in the DN iceboats?

What do you think of it? And which one of you is going to be the first to mount some super-duper shroud adjusters with a bare mast (no diamond wires) and give it a try?


Here is a picture, followed by an explanation.

picture
[img]http://tinyurl.com/3xg7e[/img]
explanation


GARY



Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Mast Bend [Re: hobiegary] #27777
01/12/04 09:23 PM
01/12/04 09:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
veteran
Tornado  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
That's pretty neat! Ice boats are discussed a lot in Frank Bethwaite's "High Performance Sailing" book...he reckons them to be the highest performance sailing craft. At thier typical speeds (3-5 times true wind velocity are possible), apparent wind is basically always from directly ahead. This has significant impact on rig design for these things relative to "soft-water" sailing. Perhaps the lee-bend mast only has benefits at these higher velocities and would prove detrimental at slower speeds and higher angles to the apparent winds in which we cat sailors spend our time.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Mast Bend [Re: Tornado] #27778
01/12/04 10:18 PM
01/12/04 10:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline OP
old hand
hobiegary  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
I think the biggest problem on a cat might be the pumping that the mast would encounter from the lumps on the soft water. The threat of a broken rig is one thing, but the loss of attached airflow would be a big drag.

Still, someone's going to prove, on a cat, that it either works or doesn't; empirically prove it I mean.

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: Mast Bend [Re: hobiegary] #27779
01/13/04 02:32 PM
01/13/04 02:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 89
Socal
nesdog Offline
journeyman
nesdog  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 89
Socal
Gary,

Do you and Buzz still have the Nacra? You can try building a new mast like this for it and experiment!

Sheldon

For all we know .. [Re: nesdog] #27780
01/13/04 03:59 PM
01/13/04 03:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

For all we know this excessive bend causes an extra downforce on the scates that allow the rig to be more powerful without the craft slipping away sideways. Something that can not be translated to catamarans.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Mast Bend [Re: hobiegary] #27781
01/15/04 09:13 PM
01/15/04 09:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
It starts to look like a kite.
Those kite guys can out point a wave board these days.

Re: Mast Bend [Re: hobiegary] #27782
01/17/04 12:03 AM
01/17/04 12:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
S
srm Offline
enthusiast
srm  Offline
enthusiast
S

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
Man, I would not want to try that on a Catamaran! But anyway, regarding the explanation article:
Where he says that performance is improved because the CE of the sail moves down and to leeward, I think he's only half right. Moving the CE down improves performance, but moving it to leeward does not increase the righting moment of the boat. It would be the same as saying your righting moment improves if you move the crew weight up or down, it dosen't, only laterally from the fulcrum, which in our case is the leeward hull.
Also, I would expect that a large reason for the improved performance is the gain in traction. Keeping the runners from slipping has got to be a big factor. Just from looking at the picture of the bent rig, it looks like the bottom 1/3 of the sail is just driving that leeward runner down into the ice which would keep it from skidding out. Probably great for ice boats, but would be a killer on a cat.


Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

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