I'm relatively new on the Hobie racing scene (my 5th season this year... ) but i can say that i've enjoyed having the X-class sailing with us at our div regattas... our emphasis has always been with the hobie boats and 90-95% of all boats attending are hobies... each class having their own start and scoring and the x-class sailing together...
I've always felt that getting anyone sailing with other people is a boost to the 'industry' no matter what boat they own. No, the hobies are not as advanced as some of the other boats i've seen.. but when people are talking to me about buying a boat, i ask them what their plans are? racing or pleasure? if you're racing, in our fleet/div anyway.. get into a hobie, because the class is big and growing, good competition, and easily accessable parts, and good used boats can be found fairly easily. I understand the need to promote Hobie events for hobies, but not being an 'exclusive club' about it... I'm also a musician playing a particular style of music... when i have or go to parties, they may be focused on celtic music, but if we were exclusive "you play rock, you can't come", i'd missed out on some good friends and a few converts as well!!
I believe in the 'good sportmanship' that most of us share about letting our neighbours 'play' with us... and will be sorry when this new ruling takes effect...

paul

The "Hobie way of Life" is sounding more and more like a hollow phrase.

I started racing a Hobie 16 11 years ago. I have since raced 16, 18, and Tiger class in Division 4, and attended an 18 Continental. I also race in local Yacht club sponsored events, but prefer racing in the Division 4 events best, as they are the best run and organized, and were the least restrictive as regards alowing any type of boat to attend. I have enjoyed the way our division has been structured in regards to X-class boats, and would miss seeing the friends I have on the "X-Class" boats. As Paul Evenden said, Division 4 is 90-95% Hobie boats, and with the X-class on the course with us, it shows the performance differences between the different "X-Class" designs and the Hobies', but also allows one design racing.
I can understand Hobie Cats point of view, but think it might be short sighted.
I am very concerned, because the last Division 4 regatta I attended at Harrison, had most of the experienced sailors from the different fleets (16, 17, 18, 20, and Tiger) seriously discusing switching to A Class, F18, or F18HT boats.
This would make NAMSA the most attractive choice, especially if the insurance issue would be covered, meaning that one would need to have a HCA, US Sailing, and NAMSA membership to cover all the loop holes. This would deminish all of these organizations by loss of the limited number of boats, by people choosing one over the other based on the various restrictions of each organization.

I hope this doesn't erase all the good progress made last year in bringing more youth and new sailors to the Division 4 events.

People, I know there are allot of hurt feelings out there, but please keep this in perspective. This is the Hobie Class Association moving to remain as the HOBIE CLASS ASSOCIATION… it is a very simple concept here. The Hobie class is NOT an open multihull class association and should never have been placed in this position.

Please, no personal attacks on the IHCA (or HCA) leadership ("Was_Hobie") that is very un-cool and un-called for.

Hi Jake,
Sorry, but I can't think of any situation that would have me recommend an F16 to a friend of mine.
An F16 is not just a "16 footer than can equally be single or double handed (with chute)."
Single-handed, it is an overweight wanna-be A Class with a chute that can't go to A Class regattas.
Double-handed, it is almost as fast as an F18 and they don't want anything to do with them.
It is a hard boat to sail well and can get over powered easily and then you add a chute!
Look at the 2003 Taipan 4.9 Nationals. Robbie Daniels borrowed a boat and cleaned their clocks.

So far, the U.S. Taipan/F16 Class has shown that this single or double idea is not helping them.
It only divides them into 4 Classes instead of just two.

I am just saying that in America, the vast majority of the people who could make a Taipan/f16 work, are racing A Class, F18HT, F18, I-20, Nacra 6.0 NE, Hobie 20 and don't want a 16 foot boat.

opinions? No problem.

Facts. 20+ F16 boats in the US now growing slowly but steadily.
Robbie Daniels wold wipe the clock in any H17 fleet as well so that is not a solid argument
Interest in F16 is definately there (Seriously, not pulling your leg here)
"this single or double idea is not helping them" is actually the most cited reason for interest.

Apart from that I would like to say :"wait and see; we're still here after 3 years and we are continuing."

About that US F16 builder ? Well, that would indeed be very nice.

Wouter

As I have posted here and in other place, NAMSA had been set and in the starters box for over a year. It is incorporated, has rules/bylaws in place, allows each individual member a full vote, has officers in place, can sanction events and allow liability insurance.

NAMSA needs a lot of help and ideas to get things really rolling, as well as membership money to implement the ideas.

For starters, to join NAMSA, send $10 to:

Robert Earl Blackington, Treasurer
7131 Sand Crest View, Colorado Springs, CO 80918
Tel 719-532-1092 (w), 719-622-8333 (h), Fax 719-567-9937 (w), 719-622-0737 (h)
E-Mail: lemarindechats@aol.com (h), Robert.Blackington@schriever.af.mil (w)

You can also find out more about NAMSA by going to its website at http://www.multihullsailing.org

And to express your ideas or to assist in anyway, NAMSA's Forum is located at:
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=NAMSA

Rick

Have all the people who contact you about getting into the F16 class send an e-mail to Hans Geissler. If he'll knock 6" off the G-Cat 5.0T it would be the fist US-Manufactured F16. Not only that, but if they proved to be a competitive boat in the F16 class it would help him prove his unique hull design is still competitive.

I don't see the current G-Cat 5.0T selling itself any other way.

Agree with mmiller : Everyone should just keep their heads a little, and understand their motives, even if you don`t agree with them.
If this is a world-wide drive to attract more people to Hobie sailing, I sincerely hope it works but have my doubts.
In Cape Town, South Africa we have events run by clubs which are open to all classes, and events run by Hobie, which are also open to all classes. Classes are scored separately,there are class winners and there is a handicap winner (not always a Hobie), and it all seems to work fine. As a non-Hobie sailor, we don`t try to convince Hobie sailors to switch boats to our brand, and none of them have.(Ok, we do point out the difference in speed downwind with our chutes up, but that`s friendly rivalry.) If this changes in the future it will just reduce the number of competitors at the Hobie class events, to the point where these events will just vanish as they will no longer be financially viable, unless IHCA provides the local Hobie class with funds so that they don`t mind running regattas at a loss.
The way things are right now, attendance is on the increase at these events (thanks mostly to the open division), and this in turn is attracting a lot of Hobie sailors back to events that they may have missed for a while. Large fleets have the ability to become infectious and start to grow exponentially, while 5 boat fleets stay that way, if they`re lucky.
In the other Provinces in SA we find the Dart 18 being strong, with the Hobie class facing extinction. An interesting point is that the Dart 18 class did exactly what IHCA are trying to do - they started their own league which is open to only Dart sailors, and are being very successful. There is no hard rule as to what will or won`t work, and what works in one area might fail in another.
I hope The Hobie class representatives are reading this thread, perhaps they`ll reconsider and search for better ways to grow their support base.
IHCA needs to understand that their ideals cannot be enforced in areas where support for their product is not already strong.

Cheers
Steve
F16 Mosquito

OK....maybe I was a little off base....

As one eluded to earlier, this is their class, they can do what they want. Having said that, It is time to recognize that change is good, especially to people who did not promt it. There are several options out there for non hobie boats.

This is an ideal breeding time for the Yacht clubs to come to play (as they have in CA. parts of Texas, and the Noreast) While we are all being just 'a little' arrogant, let me further say that these clubs really are interested in boats like the A that represent a new technology, and a new breed of sailor.

NAMSA is yet another option,...folks, what I'm saying..we have all had a few days to show frustration and complain (some are cheering)...

Lets move on! I know our up-coming A fleet schedule will and can be more challenging than the existing hobie schedule. Furthermore, there are other venues and resourses out there that are virtually un-tapped by the multi-market.

Lets just remember that Change is good, and will be good for all the boats involved...

Fire away,

Michael
Former Inter...now A!

Hey Sam,
Seems like someone or something in the F16 class is really getting to you. Is it that someone can buy or even home-build a 16ft boat that is "almost as fast as an F18" that upsets you ? Or is it that if your crew doesn`t pitch up, you CAN`T take the jib off & go sailing on an equal or similar footing to your mates ? Perhaps you really think the boats are great, but are too big & heavy to sail one ?
Whatever your reasons, there`s no real need to keep on putting another class down - whatever you sail, I`m sure you enjoy it - that`s why some people sail Hobie 16`s, some sail Taipans, Some sail Tornados etc. Everyone thinks their own boat is the greatest, that`s why they chose it in the first place. I think that those who are continously putting down other boats are probably unhappy with what they sail, and are trying to convince themselves that other boats are worse than theirs, rather than believing their own boat is just great. Why call F16 a "overweight wanna-be A Class" ? Why even compare the two ? I`m sure A-class sailors choose their boat for all it`s virtues, and choose it even though they are fully aware that they can`t race with a crewmember. Others want the option of doing either, must they buy two boats ? Must a Tornado sailor also have two boats - no, he must just live with the fact that he can`t race single-handed, but he chose his boat for different reasons.
If your friend said he was looking for a boat that had a chute, could be sailed with crew, and occasionally without, and didn`t weigh 300 lbs, would you still tell him that F16 is a bad choice.

You probably would.

Cheers
Steve

I want a new one!

Dave

I would have preferred to edit my original post, but could not.

I just want to make it perfectly clear at this point, that though I am currently Commodore of the Bald Eagle Yacht Club, that I do not speak on behalf of the club. These are my personal opinions, and our club has not yet come to a consensus on how we will deal with this mandate.

Here's to hoping we can all be reasonable,

Tim D. Johnson

Matt,

You guys really screwed the pooch with this one. In the end all you will have is a national organization the represents the H16’s which is what I suspect has been your goal for the last two years. Hobie US hasn’t even made an attempt to keep up with the market and that is why x-boats have steady taken market share from the racing end of your business.

It’s a pipe dream if you think this new policy will revive Hobie sales.

It is bad enough we have to take orders from our bosses, but at least they provide us a living. To take orders from Hobie then provide you a living… NO FREAKING WAY BUDDY!

Dave

Sycho15,

I have referred some interested sailors to G-cat in the past and I think I will do so in the future as well. I don't refer all of them to G-cat. A lot of times their list of wishes is simply better reflected in another design. Mind you I have referred crews also towards the F18 class, A-cat class and even (don't tell W.F. this) the F18HT class. And the guy actually bought the HT as well.

I have mailed with Hans as well about the F16 concept and he asked for the rules and regulations so he could read-up on them. I would love to see a G-cat F16 model, but this is up to Hans. It would definately allow him to proof his "his unique hull design".

I agree that a G-cat F16 would be more attractive as a product but I'm most definately biased in this respect.

Wouter

I dont know about everyone else, but having just started racing this past season here in michigan and only have CRAM around has hurt me i feel. I sail a Hobie 16 and dont have the money to buy a new boat or a newer one. Also during this past year, Fleet 276 is being rebuilt to provide some options for racing.

From what I have read and understand, NAHCA deceided to let in other boats 10 years ago, and during that time in Michigan, I understand that Cram used to be almost all Hobie's, now it is mostly Nacras and Intra's. Very few Hobie's show up to there events, and when one does, there is no other boats for that person to race against and to learn from. Yes there might be former Hobie sailors there, but that does not help new people to learn from watching.

Being new to the Race scene, I believe that this might be a good thing to help rebuild fleets in Division 10 and everywhere else that have been decemated over the past 10 years. I actually enjoyed being able to race every week with the local fleet and learn some new things from the more experianced sailors in the group, and I beleive that all new sailors would like to have that kind of support and groups like CRAM really dont provide that kind of support.

A couple of other things that I think people may not have taken into account, is some people dont like to travel or cant afford to travel every weekend or other weekend to regattas located in different locations.
As you know, the cost of travelling to regattas can be expensive; food, hotel or camp grounds, regatta fees, fuel, and were and tear on the tow vehical and trailer.

Mark Colby
1973 Hobie 16

At this point in time I've done a unscientific survey of where the forum comments about the HCA's decision are coming from. The vast majority are coming from a minority number of sailors in the SE area of the US. The loudest voices are non Hobie sailors. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Remember, the IHCA and HCA did not make this decision quickly or lightly. It has been planned and choreographed for some time. My hat is off to Hobie for staying true to one design class racing. It's now up to the Hobie owners as to what they want to do. Actually it opens up many more choices for Hobie owners who want to race. One design, portsmouth, F18, etc. the list goes on and on. Jump on a the classic H16 or claw your way around the course on the Tiger. It's one design class racing in it's purist form. Head to head racing without corrected time. The ability of the crew to sail the boat fast not who sails the fastest boat or latest technology. Try it....you might be surprised on how fun it is.

So what.....Hobie has made a business decision to promote their boats exclusively. I can understand their motivation. After all, for them, it is a business and the idea is to make money. I know that this may affect some cat racers more than others. For me, this has little or no effect on my racing. I haven't raced in a Hobie Points Regatta since I got rid of my Hobie 16 in 1983. (I guess that Spring Fever doesn't count as a Hobie Regatta since I was on a Nacra 6.0.) That Hobie 16 was my first cat, and a great boat it was. I still would recommend it for someone getting into the sport. I have very fond memories sailing and racing that blue hulled pitch pole machine with the Tequila Sunrise sails. I wish I had a dollar for every tourist that took a picture of it. Sorry to digress, but the point is, what has Hobie really accomplished by "banning" X-Classers other than making a lot of people mad? Were X-Class boats invading Hobie Regattas and threatening to take over all racing? I really ask this question with some sincerity, because this is not an issue at my end of the bay. Back in 1980-1981, locally there was a real line drawn in the sand. There were Hobies and the rest of the beach cats. That line of division had faded in the late 80's with the dwindling of classes and participation. Strength in numbers meant combining classes. Now Hobie has not only redrawn that line, but highlighted it to boot. Again, Hobie has made a business decision to support and sell their boats, and not a decision to help promote cat sailing overall. This is a disappointment, and I am sorry to see things head in this direction.

I will be sending my check to NAMSA this week for membership, and will continue to support all cat sailing and racing in our area regattas. That includes welcoming Hobies to our open regattas. There still should be some class limited regattas. After all there is a place for specific classes' championships such as Hobie Continentals, Performance Nationals, and this September, the first ARC Nationals. But, locally run regattas are run by locals and they should determine who is invited, and not dictated by the "Mothership". The last thing I'd ever want to do is take any frustrations out on any individual owners just because one manufacturer feels threatened by another in friendly competetion.

Hope to see all cats at our Trident Series in the panahndle this year!

Just my 2 cents. See you on the water!

THE Central Gulf cat club is the Coast Catamaran Club, working
out of the Ocean Springs Yacht Club, OS, Mississippi (see at
www.osyc.com)

Operating since the 1980s, this is an open fleet club covering the
Gulf states from Texas thru north Florida, and north to Arkansas
and Tennessee, and even a couple members from the
Carolinas.

Our main objective is the Slip to Ship regatta, MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND, held for the last twenty years, which is an open fleet distance race. We also offer a newsletter (now an e-newsletter),
boat advice, and contacts. We do hold a couple of fun get
togethers, usually Labor Day, New Year's Day and early in the
year (the X-mas party, which is held anywhere from January to
February).

The database is a hundred strong, we will be able to introduce
sailors to others in their areas. That's part of our mission, which
is to promote multihull sailing and provide a meeting ground for
multihull sailors (and introduce as many people as possible to
the sport, and welcome ALL multihulls)

Only $15 to join, and you get discounts:
$5 off Slip to Ship
$5 off all OSYC races
(refunds just about all your money, that's three races: S2S, Ihop
and Shearwater)

Please contact Jay Klassen, CCC Commodore,
coastcatclub @ hotmail.com

thanks
tami
Mamadore, CCC

Matt:

You don't seem to get it! Hobie is saying we want to be distinct so we are not going to allow you to sail with us unless sail a Hobie product.

Fine, go and be a distinct and separate group, without the rest of us!

I have been a lurker on this website for quite a long time, but I finally have to speak out. I can hardly believe what I am reading. Excuse me, but you all sound like a bunch of whiney crybabies. Do you understand the concept behind one-design racing? Do you expect that any kind of dinghy should be able to show up at a Laser regatta and demand to sail in an open class? Do you expect any catamaran to be able to show up at the Tuesday night A-cat racing in Bristol, RI and demand that they have an open class? Then why would you assume it is so "whine whine unfair" that the Hobie Class is now doing the same thing? Get real. Hobie is just doing what the rest of the world is already doing. Any Yacht Club can still hold an open catamaran event. Even any group of people can get together and hold an open event -- they simply can't do it as a Hobie Fleet/Division or use Hobie logos, etc. I really don't understand the big deal here. It isn't fair to blame a manufacturer for doing what all the other boat manufacturers do, and it isn't fair to blame the sailors who happen to like one-design racing.