Hi Mary,
Being a 20+ year member of CRAM, I can speak in the club's defense. I feel bad that anyone has come to CRAM and felt the members to be exclusionary. I certainly don't see it. Are the boats these days high tech? Yup. Are they faster? Yup. This doesn't mean that older boats are not welcome or that CRAM would rather only cater to the high tech crowd. We have been trying to get Hobies involved in the club for years - to no avail. We provide great sailing venues, great regatta organization and great parties. All any group needs to do (be that Hobies, A Class, Tornados, etc.) is organize their group and bring them to sail. CRAM will provide separate starts, trophies, etc. How could it be much easier? Now, if you expect me as an F18 sailor to organize the Hobie 16 fleet and get them to come to the regattas, that probably won't happen. I'm interested in my own class like everybody else. It takes someone in the class to organize the class. Division 10 is reorganizing. What better situation than to bring this fledgling group to an established club? The entire Michigan racing scene is there for the asking. Bring your Hobie 16s, 18s, Tigers - heck, even Waves and come race. Get involved in the club. PLEASE INFILTRATE US! Volunteer to do some work. Get to know the folks. You won't regret it.

Roger Cochran
Nacra F18

Roger, I did my best to talk Jeff Rabidoux into getting his fleet into CRAM. It makes the most sense to me. One of his reasons for not doing so was that a lot of the sailors he has assembled to rebuild the Detroit fleet are not interested in racing. They just want to be able to get together locally and sail around.

The most hi-tech out there.
You may even see Mary and I show up with Waves this summer since we sold the motel and will be living at Put-in-Bay for the warm season.
Why the Wave Class has had the highest attendance of any class at most regattas.
Kudos to CRAM
Rick

Matt,

What did you find out at the Chicago show? We all would like to hear something or have "they" clammed up?

Bob

OK, here’s the report from the Strictly Sail Show in Chicago this weekend, as well as our HCA Division 10 meeting on Saturday night:

First the show – WOW! HCA Division 10 had a display with John Bauldry’s Tiger, a projector running Hobie Worlds / Nationals videos and all kinds of info to hand out. Hedlund Marine (the local Hobie dealer) had a huge separate area with a Getaway, Bravo, kayaks and a bunch of monohulls along with lots of apparel and other goodies.

I was there all day Saturday and by the end of the day (8:00 PM), I was hoarse from talking to the hundreds of people that stopped by. Check out the photo – see the crowd in front of the Tiger in the foreground? That was about half the typical number of people that were hanging around at any given time. We had over 100 people interested in joining Hobie Fleets give us their contact information!



Meanwhile, over at the dealer’s area, they sold a bunch of Hobie 16’s – two in one hour Saturday afternoon. While we weren’t trying to sell boats at our booth, we think we’ll be responsible for selling at least 4 Tigers. All in all, an extremely successful outing. It far exceeded our expectations!

As for the HCA Division 10 meeting Saturday night, we had about 35 people from the three most active Hobie Fleets in the Division (276 – Detroit, 519 – Kalamazoo, and 123 – Carlyle, IL). Ruth Triglia from Hobie Cat was there, as were the owners of Hedlund Marine. IHCA Vice President Lori Mohney (a member of Hobie Fleet 519) was there as well.

The focus of the meeting was on fleet building and looking towards the future since that is what is most important to us as a Hobie Class Association Division. The future of Hobie Fleets is not racing, but the social and fun aspects of getting together with people that own Hobie Cats. Kind of like a Corvette Car Club. (OK, maybe it’s a VW Beetle Club, for those of you who still consider us “Slowbies”).

There was some discussion of the “edict” at the meeting but most of us consider it a non-issue. After all, we’re rebuilding HCA Division 10 from scratch. We’ll continue to sail with our X-boat friends at regattas hosted by CRAM, CRAW, OCRA and other sailing associations. We don’t have any plans to host a regatta as a Hobie Division yet, because we’re too geographically dispersed. Maybe next year. We’ll worry about it when the time comes. We have to walk before we can run.

At the conclusion of the meeting, both Ruth and Lori answered questions about a variety of topics, from the “edict” to the decision to stop production of the Hobie 17 and 18. It was a lively discussion, but most people understood that the “edict” is really an administrative change. We’re also looking forward to the support that Hobie Cat Co. has promised (whatever that might end up being). We left the meeting on a high positive note – I haven’t seen so many people geeked about Hobie sailing in a long time.

Everybody agrees that the communication of the “edict” was not handled as well as it could have been. I received a personal apology from Rich McVeigh about that, and I’ve gotten over it. I suggest everybody else just take a deep breath and get over it as well. There are a lot of details to be worked through and the HCA officers are on it. I know people want to know what’s going to happen RIGHT NOW, but they are just going to have to be patient. Nobody that works on this stuff gets paid to do it and we all have commitments (like work) that come before sailing politics.

I, for one, refuse to roll around in the mud with those slinging it at the various players working on this. I refuse to blow this out of proportion like so many have, including, IMHO, the host of this forum (just look at the misleading title of this thread). I will be patient, I will keep my head on straight and look toward the future without judging or second guessing decisions made in the past by others in what they consider to be the best interests of my class. I will make my opinions known and I won’t stamp my feet and cry when I don’t get my way.

It's time to move on.

Matt,
Thanks for the great report and good news from Chicago. Great to see such enthusiasm.
However, the following bothers me quite a bit:


Exactly what is misleading? That is what the Press Releases said.

To quote exactly the letter from Rich, "Specifically, non-Hobie Cat boats will not be able to participate in Hobie class sanctioned regattas."


Rick

That is an accurate representation.



Is a misleading contraction. It makes it seem as if the Hobie Class is excluding all other brands from all events, class sanctioned or otherwise, which is untrue.

Hello Matt or Rich McVeigh

Just curious. Two years ago NAHCA designated regional championship regattas and gave the organizers cash and other bennefits in exchange for Hobie only events. (Basically the same result as restricting clubs to designating regattas as Hobie regattas only if they are strictly hobie class boats)

Did this work and how? Did fleets want the cash at the expense of participation by other boats? Did this strategy increase participation by Hobie racers?

Take Care
Mark Schneider

i dont get it. one design is just that. if other fleets or sailors want to piggyback into a regatta with other boats, then what a gracious race comittee that would be willing to do extra work. certainly not to be expected. however it would be more coolness for the decision to be up to the regatta organizers, theres way too many rules imho on the planet already

Mark

I checked the results of the 2002 and 2003 Spring Fever and Hobie-only mid-winters east and here is what I found.

2003 SF / 2003 MW / 2002SF / 2002MW
H14 / 0 / 0 / 3 / 2
Wave / 0 / 5 / 6 / 0
Getaway /1 / 0 / 6 / 0
H16 / 10 / 8 / 17 / 7
H17 / 5 / 12 / 8 / 11
TheMightyHobie18 / 11 / 1 / 10 / 2
H18m / 0 / 0 / 5 / 0
H20 / 6 / 4 / 14 / 9
Tiger/ 9 / 4 / 7 / 5

Total/ 42 / 34 / 73 / 41

total
open / 23 / 0 / 52 / 0

total/ 65 / 34 / 125 / 41

All Hobie classes in SF were scored as one design, except the single Hobie boats were grouped in an open class so they had someone to race against. It seems to me that the SF had a bigger Hobie class and more boats than the Hobie- only regatta both years. It looks like the non-Hobie regattas had more Hobie boats than the Hobie only regatta. I attended both SF regattas and I had a great time with tons of raffle prizes and tons of great food for three days and a band, and I don't think Hobie gave any support.
It looks to me like open catamaran racing with separate boat classes is better than Hobie only racing. I would like to see the results that the HCA is using and would also like to see the budgets from HCA to see where they are spending our money. Is it not our rights as members? The HCA should publish the budget, the amount of members and active fleets in their newsletter.

I am all for one-design, but I think it can still be done allowing other boats at our regattas. I say 'our' because most regattas I go to in Division 9 are put on by sailors that love sailing and spend their time and sometimes money to put on these regattas without any financial support from Hobie or the HCA. It seems to me if these individuals are going to spend their time and money and use yacht club ties to have a regatta they should be able to invite other boats, as long as they group 5 alike boats to make a Hobie class or what ever. Most of us are not getting paid for this and we are giving Hobie free advertising (web sites,logos on shirts, etc.)and trying to invite new people into sailing. Thanks for asking your members what they want(I never saw a vote on this from the members of HCA)it felt like a slap in the face after reading the newly enforced rules from PU. I guess that is the thanks that we get for putting on regattas for years for HCA. Just my thoughts.

Matt,

I'm confused. Your previous posts have preached staying calm and not to overreact. Now, you're upset about a "misleading contraction"??? Dude, what's with that?

And what happened to finding out about the aforementioned sanctions to fleets or individuals who violate the new rules - per your post from last week?

Mike W.
(a fellow Hobie 17 sailor -- and contraction free)

Hi David, you wrote : "Most of us are not getting paid for this and we are giving Hobie free advertising (web sites,logos on shirts, etc.)".

Sam Evans put me in my place for asking some questions & making my opinion known, so please excuse me for not having US "local knowledge" on this subject. Seems like a lot of folks have a lot to get upset about, so it must be a big deal. The way I see it, Hobie are saying "Guys, we`d like to run our own HOBIE CLASS regattas, and won`t be hosting an open class at these events. We also don`t want the HOBIE logo associated with regattas at which ALL the boats aren`t Hobies."
The problem for some open class racers seems to be they will lose an infrastructure to piggy-back onto, in areas where there aren`t enough of them to sustain their own open class fleet & host their own regattas, and where the Hobie class is strong & is doing all the work. My suggestion here is for these poor souls to abstain from assisting in the organising or running of these events & leave all the work for Hobie sailors to do. It`s what they are asking for. And it sounds like if you sail a TheMightyHobie18, H14 or H17, you are regarded by Hobie as not being part of their family (please correct me if I`m wrong, will they allow these boats at the Hobie only regattas ?) If I`m right, the open class guys should welcome these Hobie outcasts in their fleet and get more open class sailors back on the water.
Which brings me to my next point : You don`t drive a Ford pickup with a sticker on it that says "I`d rather have a Chevy", do you ? So, STOP advertising for Hobie, when asked by outsiders what you sail, don`t say " a catamaran", say " a PRINDLE cat, or a NACRA cat, OR an INTER-20 cat", or whatever you sail. Get the H word out of the general public`s mind, stop doing their advertising for them. It`s what they`re asking you to do. It`s a real pity that one company can start this "us & them" mindset in the world of cat-sailing, rise above it all, hold open-class events & invite Hobie sailors (remember they didn`t decide on this, the Company whose only interest is MAKING MONEY out of cat-sailing did.)
And another thing : When someone hoists a H flag or banner, or even wears an 'H' T-shirt at an open event like Texel where they are exposing their logo to THOUSANDS of sailors of non-H boats at which you are on the organising committee, kindly ask them to remove it, as you would like to avoid action being taken against you by their mother company. If you only do what they ask, they will quietly dissappear into the backwaters of extinction and won`t bother anyone anymore. (And don`t get upset with ME for writing this, it`s only what I`ve understood from the letters they sent out.) I`ve been trying to break down the mindset of "us & them" where I sail, and this news hasn`t made things any easier.

Regards
Steve

OK, first Mark’s question (thanks, Dave for doing the research). It certainly appears from the attendance numbers that the Hobie MWE has not benefited terrifically from Hobie Cat Co. support. An argument could be made that it wouldn’t have existed without it. I don’t know how much support was provided to HMWE – like I said in an earlier post, I’ve been disconnected from the politics in the past couple of years. There are probably a number of factors involved in the disparity between the events, not the least of which is the competition between the two. I know that I would have to choose one over the other – I can’t do both in one year. This year, I’ve chosen the Hobie MWE because I think the competition in the 16’s will be much stiffer – and I need to train for the 16 Worlds in May.

I can’t comment on the quality of either event, because I didn’t have the opportunity to go to any of them. I did hear from people that went to SF that it had gotten too big for it’s venue (we should all have that problem!). They still had a good time.

As for budget / numbers, I can only comment about my tenure as NAHCA Sec./Treas/Chairman (’92-‘99). The income/expense statements were printed every year in the NAHCA News and were distributed to anybody that wanted them at the NAHCA AGM. They’re not secret. I still have the Quicken files on my computer – how else do you think I was able to quote detailed amounts in a previous post? I’ve never seen the financial statements from an event, though, Hobie or otherwise (except ones I’ve done myself). It would be good from an accountability standpoint. Has Nigel ever published the financials from SF?

As for Mike’s questions, I’m not “upset” about the title of the thread. I just pointed out the subtle difference to Rick. I noticed that the headline on the main page was changed almost immediately (thanks, Rick). I also know that Mary likes to “stir the pot.” It makes for impassioned posts and juicy reading. I used to do the same thing when I was the editor of the NAHCA News. Nothing wrong with trying to generate reader interest, as long as you stick to the truth and are evenhanded about it.

As for proposed sanctions, they really haven’t been seriously discussed yet. I know the NAHCA officers are still trying to deal with the immediate fallout from the bomb they dropped. I think they’ve learned a hard lesson about communication, and they’ll be a lot more input into how this whole thing will work over the next year.

Dave

I just wanted to clear up a few things in regard to CRAM and our fleets relationship with them. From day one, when I set out to rebuild Hobie Fleet 276, I worked in conjunction with CRAM. I attended their business meeting in the Fall of 2002 and stated my intentions to the club officers. I walked out of the meeting as the Hobie Fleet Captain. I let them know that we were not competing against them, rather, I was out to find Hobie sailors interested in fleet sailing...without the focus on racing. Sailing and socializing was my concept. The idea was to bring new people into sailing, or people who had left the sport back to it. My belief has always been that many folks are intimidated by the whole idea of racing and others just can't find the time to take full weeknds away from home. Single day fun sail events have a place, a niche if you will.

As a Hobie sailor from the past, I admit my loyalty to the brand. I startd the fleet in Detroit because I believe that the Hobie is plentiful on the used market, and someone could get one with a trailer for a small investment. That allows new sailors to get into the one-design side of the sport without taking a risk that they won't like it and they would be stuck with an expensive boat to sell.

The small part of our fleet that hoose to take part in racing, do participate in CRAM events. CRAM has the inferstructure for racing...with some of the best venues in the state of Michigan. I promoted the heck out of Catfight last year, and nearly a third of the 75 boats that turned out were Hobies. I understand that the prior year, there were 3 Hobies. I think that's pretty good support from my end.

It is important for people to understand that our core group, the racers within our fleet, choose to race Hobie events that take place in Division 16. This is not because we are boycotting CRAM events, nor does the HCA urge us not to attend their regattas. We just choose to race one design against some of the best competition in this country. I would rather go up against 20 - 30 experienced Hobie 16 sailors, in A and B fleets, than to race a much smaller group of boats, with less experienced racers, that I could gather for the typical weekend CRAM event.

The disparaging comments that have been made against CRAM, were based on situations in the past. I have talked about that with the other CRAM officers and its not an issue any longer. Last year was great. Many of our fleet members particpated in events other than Catfight and no one had anything bad to say about how they were treated.

We will continue to participate in CRAM events and as some of our fleet members become more comfortable with the race course, they will probably join us as well. I look forward to the coming season and I know that all the CRAM members who really know me, support my efforts. The growth of the sport that I will bring through my efforts will do nothing but grow the numbers at certain CRAM events.

Looking forward to the season!

Jeff

Matt, sorry, but Rick did NOT change the headline on the story on our home page. That's the original headline he put there. And the headline he put on his own post about all this on the forum also would meet your criteria. So I guess I am the only bad guy. At least I said "bans all non-Hobies from events" rather than "bans non-Hobies from all events." I just thought it was self-evident that if NAHCA was banning non-Hobies from events it meant NAHCA events, because what else would NAHCA have control over?

This is really silly. And somehow, I don't think I am the one stirring the pot here. That would be the people who made the decision and made the announcements. Actually, I think much of the input that has been given on this forum by many people may be helpful to both NAHCA and to the Hobie Cat Company in further developing this new policy -- or should I correctly say, "revocation of the old policy which supplanted the original policy."

So.....

Now might be a great opportunity for the forgotten 14 sailors to branch out on their own and form their own class association. Take off the "H" on the sails. Metal and comptips racing together. Sqtop mains with a 150lbs weight limit! Seems to me it's a good time for 14 sailors to consider this in the US; a class of their own with no HCA involvement!!! I know of one cat-friendly YC that would aid in an annual event(s).

IMHO.

Bob

Mary,

Sorry, I could have sworn Rick changed the headline. I'm getting old and my memory's not what it used to be.

Bob,

You mean something like this?


No matter how you dress it up, it's still a Beetle, er Hobie.

(Dolls not included)

BTW, where were all the 14's at Rehoboth?

After reading Dleonards post, it sounds to me like Hobie is organizing a "union".

Rehobeth? Oh, all metal mast 14s not allowed. NE USA is full of boats like that but not allowed to race under 'current' policy(rules). If that were to change....

I like the Beetle!!! It's still a beetle but a better one.

Bob

Let's start a Formula 14 class. Hey Wouter, want to jump in on this one???