All,

FORMULA 14 RULES are posted on the new F14 SITE. Thanks for all your inputs!!

Bob Curry
FORMULA 14 Class Director

Hi Carl,
It sounds like the class rule makers have already stepped in some. First they take a class that is only an idea at this time and divide it into two divisions. Nothing divided by two is still nothing. Don't divide the class yet. Let something get started and then if there is a different demand with some weight to it, add to the class rules to accomodate it later. Get started with one goal first; get critical mass.
Reading the posts so far, sailors want to take existing platforms and modify them some, like improve the sail plan and add a spinnaker and retractor system and "let's go racing". It reminds me of a 1950's stock car. Take a standard production US automobile and take the upholstery
out, tape up the lights, add a roll bar, take the air cleaner off the carburetor and "let's go racing".
That 150 pound class minimum weight is a scaled down all carbon A class boat that costs $15,000.00 US Dollars. What these posts are talking about is a $1500 dollar boat finished and ready to go racing.
Class organizers, listen to the people.
Bill

Bill,
Where do you see that there are two divisions? I don't get that at all from reading the rules.

bill,
the 150 lbs is for the skipper.....try 240 lbs for the boat...and i do not see 2 classes......

Hi Terry & Mary

my error ,-I mentioned 2 possible weight categories as an option for the 14 class ,--then Bill responded -

I made the same error in reading another poster's comments on including 15s ,--but the max length is 14.3 ft only .

I,m out cutting off a foot of stern on my 15 as I type this

The 14 forum looks good ,--a basic rules outline is posted though has a 150 min crew weight ,---the average female is 120 ,---hmmm . average youth sailor 110 hmmmm .

Carl,
Before you start cutting, note that the maximum length is not 14.3 feet, it is 14 feet, 3 inches.

I wish there was more debate before the rules were "set".

The width, length, and min weight simply seem like they are geared to allow H14's to be the only competative "stock" boat. When and more importantly why were these rules "used"?

I've raced against both the M4.3 (DPN 78) and Bob’s H14 Maxi (DPN 82) and I am hugely impressed with the H14M speed, given the difference in hull age. I do not believe the Portsmouth numbers for either of these boats due to lack of real race results HEAD TO HEAD.

If the F14 class purposes to run without corrections, how about testing the concept with these existing boats? Since both the M4.3 and the H14 Maxi are available in the Panhandle and you guys sail all year, how about a shoot out?

John W.(M4.3 sailor), if you don't think you can sail to Bob's level, maybe you could put some Rock Star on your M4.3 to keep naysayers from claiming the results are not fair. Randy vs Bob…that ought to draw some attention!

Go, Bob! Show ‘em your Blaster!

David
Dunedin, FL
Mystere 5.0XL

(Since the Main Forum discussion is still lively on this topic, I have double posted with the F14 forum)

This seems more like it's being geared as a CLASSIC 14 class. It was my understanding that FORMULA meant a class that could improve the performance of a type of boat (in this case a 14' boat). However, the rules listed already limit the class to boats that are slower and heavier than most 14' boats out there, and certainly all 14' boats designed for racing after 1970.

Bill

My original rules were based on some modeling and a boat that I am building. The rules were not optimized for existing boats.

A scratch built 14, with no min boat weight, would enjoy a huge advantage. I proposed allowing boats under 240 lbs, a smaller max sail area, 120 ft2. This was apparently not accepted.

This pretty much kills me. I would be looking at ~100 lb of corrector weight on hulls designed for a 300-350 lb total boat and skipper. With 100 lb corrector, I suspect, the boat would be doggy and oscillate around the corrector mass in chop.

My boat was not designed for F14. It was designed as an updated tunnelhull, to give me a multihull to race against Portsmouth dinghies on the Wed Nights. It is 14ft long, 5 ft wide, using a Laser rig to get me on the water by mid April and then a carbon windsurfer/Moth/skiff derived rig by probably by June. Final rig will be 100 ft2 main with a ~100 roller furling downwind sail. Target weight 100-120 lbs. However, to preserve my options I added 1 in of hull height, more bow volume and designed the structure to handle an 8.5 ft beam and a larger rig. I am probably going to increase the beam to 7ft, mostly for my comfort.


I agree and disagree on boat weight however. First, I agree, for a production builder a 100-150lbm F14 would be really expensive $12,000-15,000 easy.If an aerospace firm built it, it would be $100K but it would only weigh ~80Lbm Second, I disagree, for a homebuilder it's not that simple. You could scale a Unicorn A-class and end up with 150 lbm F14. I am using strip planked cedar with Kevlar inside and glass outside mostly because I could not get the hull shape I wanted with plywood. If I were really careful about extra material I could probably cut 20 lbs off the boat. A far as cost, I should call this the ebay boat. Most of the expensive parts were purchased on ebay, over a period of years, really cheap or they are leftovers from old projects. You can't do that on a production line. Up to a point, a homebuilder has an advantage. However as soon as the designs stabilize and there is a big enough market the production builder will eat them alive.

Carl

Hi Carl,
Don't be too quick with the saw on the bow. It is very easy to move a transom forward a few inches. Also for a slightly short boat, it is easy to extend the existing hull shape by bending a piece of formica or bendable plywood around the outside of a hull aft end and then let it extend aft to the desired overall hull length. Next wax the inside surface and build the extension inside this quickie mold.
Bill

Mary,
Does 14.3ft mean 14ft and 3 inches or does 14.3ft mean 14ft and 3.6 inches?
Bill

The rule states 14' 3" - I think some of the confusion comes from the Mystere 4.3 (meters)

You're correct, Jake. I just talked to Bob about that, and he said it is 14 feet 3 inches, period.

The Cheshire Cat is not a new design. The Quattro 14 is also not a new design. Both of these are advertised in the 170lb range.

Rick White's Hobie Wave has a 20' mast, a 7' beam and no trapeze. He uses 187sq.ft. of sail and does not seem to be overpowered by it. Besides, a quick pull of a line and all that Hooter rolls up to tame the boat. I cannot see why an 8 to 8.5' wide boat with a 24' mast and trapeze system couldn't easily carry 200 sq. ft. max.

I have the same thoughts as you Synchro. Seems as though this new class that was created ?!?!? simply caters to those that sail H14's and want to tweak them.

My biggest problem is that:

at 225lbs, on a H14, I'm uncompetitive under most (if not all) conditions. If the weight was lower, and could use a wider beam, I think it would open the door up for a broader base of boats to be used. This would in turn attract more sailors, etc...

I still would like to know why Bob was appointed, and if he came up with these rules all by himself or what? I understand Bob is an awesome H14 sailor, and intend no disrespect, but I though class rules should be developed by the people that want to make it a class.?!?

Never mind. Thought the 4.3 would be part of the basis for a box rule, but instead, with the proposed rule, I'd need to add a boom, bigger sails, and take off the 'chute, which is the best part of sailing the smaller boat. Or buy a H14 or rig a Wave like Rick's. I like my boat - guess I'm off the team roster.

Well, is this a free country or what? If we don't want to conform to the current set of F14 rules (which as I understand are still under debate), we can just make our own rules and a F14HP class. "High Performance" doesn't have to mean "High Tech"

Sounds fine by me! I just don't quite get the current rules. Your previous post sums up exactly how I feel. I don't wanna sail a H14 at all, in a big wind I'd sink it

Now whos gonna be the F14HP class pres :-D

Hang on! I saw that there was no mention of a spinnaker but it did say "headsail" and a headsail is technically defined as "Any sail set forward of the foremast." So.....the spinnaker on the 4.3 is still in - right? Or does it not fall within the overall sail area rules?

I like the rules except for the sail area restriction. Heck, make it like the ozzy 18's - no sail restriction...he who hang-eth on-eth longest wins. Seriously though, make a mast height restriction but leave the sail configuration open. I have been chased closely by Rick and his Hooter Wave before (and I was on a 5.2 and placed 3rd!).

Building a 14' Formula boat will be high on my list of "to do's" if this thing takes off.