Almost correct. No license involved though. The Hobie 20 Miracle is nearly a Hurrican, but has a different bow, keel line, deck, boards, crossbars and rig. It is also built completely different.
Matt, I knew that there was some link, not sure what.
Keith, The Story of the Hurricane 5.9 is that Reg and Robert White cut up a Tornado hull, put in a bit more buoyancy forward and a few more mods. Gave it an 8ft beam, twin trapeze new rig and "Bob's your Aunt"
Keith Check out www.hurricane59.com and see how they have upgraded the 5.9 There is now a Hurricane 5.9 SX three sail model. By fitting a smaller jub they have kept the same SCHRS handicap number, even with three sails. Might be the upgrade you are looking for !
We knew we had to focus on getting new sailors into the sport; this is how Hobie Cat decided to do it. Build inexpensive, fun and durable boats. It is working and these people will be turned on to sailing and start moving to bigger and faster boats over time.
In the early 90's we recognized that we had been selling to the same group of sailors for years and that we had minimal new customers. This was after years of building a bigger and faster boat every few years. 14 then 16, 18 and so on...
We KNEW we needed new sailors. The 16 was our entry-level boat and it was getting more expensive to build. We had to get a less expensive and easier to sail boat. We took about three years to design and fully test the Wave and it has now been a HUGE success for multihull sailing and us. They are everywhere as rentals, club boats, cottage boats and personal boats. We have replaced nearly all of the other sailboats that these clubs used to have. Hobie Waves are seen by millions of vacationers around the world. They are seen as fun, fast and simple to sail.
We then started the next phase... a bigger boat again... the Getaway. Then we also went the other way last year and came out with another smaller entry-level boat... the Hobie Bravo. A truly simple multihull that is full of innovation. The Bravo has become a huge seller as well. The Bravo comes from the original 1970's Hobie Mono Cat, but is rotomolded and has a furling mainsail. An “A” frame structure rather than shrouds holds up the mast. You can be on a trailer, then sailing in about 5 minutes. We have applied for patents on the mast a sail system. We also just came out with a new rudder system which patents will be filed for. The new rudder system will replace the 2 casting and cam system that Hobie patented long ago. It has been released on the Bravo this month and will likely be on the Wave and Getaway soon after some further testing. The rudder system is another effort to make sailing simpler for entry-level sailors.
We now have a full range of truly entry-level boats. We let Hobie Cat France concentrate on the tech side. We brought in the Tiger, Fox, and FX1. The Tiger has been selling well, but nothing like the entry-level boats.
I think we made the right design and marketing decisions and that will be good for the sport over time.
The alpha male reigned in by the Alpha Cat. You da man. It was wonderful; which is kinda hard to explain.
I watched the end of that video several (more like "countless" times) and the more I did, the more I thought..."Wow, that boat can take a freakin' beating". While at first I did, I am not so sure that is such a bad idea to include that footage - it got the kid's attention!
Dean kinda hit at the nail (I think). I race catamarans to be closer to the edge - to get all I can out of the boat before playing submarine. My philosophy in my sailing can be summed up by this: "the existence of a limit can only be determined by exceeding it occasionally". I watched the end of this video again and again because I liked it. Grrrrrrr. chest pounding man style.
Jake Kohl
Re: Spitfire Sailing Video
[Re: MauganN20]
#31574 03/20/0401:09 AM03/20/0401:09 AM
To answer all those who asked "why put in all the Pitch Poles" You've all really answered the question already, it gets people talking and makes others interested. The video was produced for a boat show and most of the people who saw the "action" watched the whole video again to see it a second time. Sure these were particularly violent (as well as doing the editing for this video, I was helming #74) but I believe it adds to the excitement of sailing catamarans. Most people who sail have some craving for adrenaline.
In reality the Spitfire doesn't pitch pole very often, it has quite a lot of volume in the nose, however we were sailing in extreme conditions. Although you can't see it on the video, it was gusting from 10knots to over 30knots in split seconds and the wind was shifting 90 degrees at times. The water was extremely flat because we were sailing up and down narrow shipping waters where we could film from a bridge.
Great Video! need more of them out there. I don't think the pitchpole scenes will deter anyone from buying a boat like this, maybe even help. Makes great stories at the bar. If you race, you push it, you have pitchpoled - fact of life. Can't imagine anyone buying a boat like this and not racing. The scenes at the end kind of reminded me of a group of out-takes or bloopers they show at the end of a movie. Maybe not the individual's finest moment, but entertaining just the same. How many of you have pitchpoled and would have loved to have had it on tape? I've pitchpoled every cat I've owned except my Nacra 6.0. That includes my Stiletto 23, and ARC 22.
Keep the pointy side up.
Don Cook
ARC22 #2226
ADRENALIN
Re: Spitfire Sailing Video
[Re: basket.case]
#31582 03/21/0411:45 AM03/21/0411:45 AM
I think that I am right in saying that the Hobie 20 is a licenced copy of the Hurricane 5.9, designed and built by the Spitfire co-designer and builder, Reg White.
No.
I believe It's a rip off......
Secondly, the Hurricane 5.9 was not just a cut down Tornado with twin wires and a little more up front....
It shares the Centreboards and rudders and that is a about it.......
It was designed by Reg / Robert white and another I cannot remember as a 8 Foot wide boat with Similar performance to a T. but a little more forgiving in the 'big stuff' - It has had a Mylar mainsail since inception and a Dacron Jib. The SX version looks like an interesting innovation and if I had the spare cash I would Buy a 5.9 as a second / long distance race boat any day. It's wat got twin wire cat sailing going in the UK and at one time it was the boat to have in the UK. It's now probably the 2nd fleet behind the F18 in Europe. I owned two and as I said I would buy another one if I had the Cash...
I think your mixing up innovative with smart marketing. Henry Ford was smart by saying lets build as many cars as we can as cheap as we can so everyone can have one. Enzo Ferrari was innovative by design. Developing cats that are cheap and reliable is not innovative or groundbreaking by any means. Sure a new rudder system took thought to manufacture and maybe you can setup and sail a Wave in minutes, but i have yet to see a COMPLETE performance cat made and designed by HC USA. It's almost like trying to justify why Ford has failed to make a true performance car but the taurus is selling great, to a populous who mainly drives BMW's.
Design For Manufacture (DFMA for short) has been considered a huge innovation in the entire manufacturing community. Hobie was ahead of the curve on this one. This is a concept that is integral to the design process. Had Hobie Cat not developed catamarans that were available and sailable for your average guy on the street cat sailing would be about twenty years behind where it is today.
Had Hobie Cat not developed catamarans that were available and sailable for your average guy on the street cat sailing would be about twenty years behind where it is today.
That certainly does not apply to Europe !
Dermot Catapult 265
Son you just aint right in the head!
[Re: David Parker]
#31586 03/22/0410:07 AM03/22/0410:07 AM
1.A racing sport WITHOUT the crash threat? No one would watch, no one would join. They’re not selling Getaways to Ozzie and Harriet. To omit the dramatic pitch potential would be a lie to new sailors. How would a customer feel if they bought one and discovered the undisclosed pitch threat themselves? In the USA they would sue in a heartbeat!
Actually they are trying to sell these toy's to people with families. Because your younger folks (not married no kids) can't afford the damn things! So including the crashes could spook your kid or/and put off the wife. I guarantee you my wife doesn't like an unplanned trip to the end of the snuffer pole. Tends to make for an unpleasant day!
As for people sueing... It's going to happen not matter how much education you ram down someone throat. People refuse to take responsibility for there own actions! It's always someone elses fault. And when they do F'up they expect to be saved!
2. Did you miss the clip of them righting the boat? The video shows it taking about 3 seconds (riiiight!) to recover from the dramatic pitch event. This crafty video lures you to the speed and intensity, frightens you by the potential of a violent pitch, and then offers you a quick fix to show how the pitch wasn’t fatal and is easily recoverable.
That's not what I was thinking! I was thinking “I wonder what they broke that time”. Cha Ching!
3. As for attracting new blood to join this thrill sport, face it. Speed is the addiction but you wouldn’t do it without the constant threat of destruction. Jake is right, “I watched the end of this video again and again because I liked it. Grrrrrrr. chest pounding man style.” The sixties folk song says, “You must barter your life to make sure you are living.” If you don’t agree, don’t sail a fast cat.
Okay, there is certianly two different camps here. I race my boat, and I certianly push it and me to our limits, but I aint doing it for sole purpose of beating the odds! I'm just trying to get in front or stay in front! Pitchpoling aint the fastest way to get to the finish line! I sure as hell want to focus on other things, like finding the preasure and getting there before my buddy, not how the hell do I keep the f'in nose up!
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Chest pounding, man style
[Re: David Parker]
#31587 03/22/0401:33 PM03/22/0401:33 PM
In reply to David Parker, With all due respect, I have to disagree with your general proposition as I see it expressed in the quotes following: "Speed is the addiction but you wouldn’t do it without the constant threat of destruction." And further, "The sixties folk song says, 'You must barter your life to make sure you are living.' If you don’t agree, don’t sail a fast cat." And lastly, "This is a testosterone sport…that’s why so few women are around. Stupid, reckless men do this stuff and like it."
I raced motorcycles in the 70s on sports car tracks up and down the east coast; going from fast amateur to novice and then expert level professional. I watched many amateur riders come into the sport with the above notions; if they were lucky they simply spent themselves out of the sport with the costs of fixing their crashed motorcycles. If they were unlucky they paid a serious price in the form of a lifelong injury for what was to be a "recreational" endeavor. When real danger is on the line, blind machoism doesn't get it; it tends to lead you to try to ignore physics, which will not be ignored--especially the part about kinetic energy.
Its true, when one wants to go faster, one needs to find the edge. The challenge in motorcycle racing (since there are no spinouts in that sport) is to "nibble" away at that edge, so your transgressions over are small and recoverable. The same principle applies in cat sailing. The closer to the edge you go, the faster you go (assuming conditions call/allow for such an approach). But you don't win races by crashing, even if its not as dangerous and paiinful as in motorcycle racing.
The genuine thrill of cat sailing (as it was for me in motorcycle racing) is to have the level of skill and control to run at that edge and to have your personal edge (because it is different for people of differing skills) further out there. It is the exercise of great control, finese, and precision in the midst of violent forces--being calm and precise in controlling these forces that gives great pleasure. In motorcycle racing, scaring oneself was for amateurs and macho men who didn't last long. When one is doing it right, one never scares oneself; one just enjoys exercising the control while playing on the edge. Winning, of course, helps. Just some thoughts of an older guy.
Cat sailing is fun, but the majority of new boat buyers are buying the Getaway which without some moderate wind isn't super fast. There are 250,000 Hobie 16's sold out there that are slow compared to a lot of modern and some older boats. The speed thing is realtive and really not a huge issue to the majority (which do not race).
Besides, this is a moot point. It doesn't matter if in 10-20 years there are half as many sailors to buy a boat, maybe even less. You have to get younger people with disposible income interested. They watch TV. They read Cosmo and Maxim. They go to clubs/bars.
Face the facts... no matter how "manly" you make sailing, if no one knows about it, they don't care. The only ads I ever see are the back of Murrays and Hobie catalogs. The only video I see is off obscure websites. (Until a typical person on the street knows to go to Hobiecat.com to see sailboats in action, it is obscure).
