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Dutch Coast Challenge day 1 and 2 #36633
08/10/04 05:24 PM
08/10/04 05:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Okay the event has ended a week ago and I was to busy to put daily reports up. My appologies ! But don't despair as in the coming week I will give you the delayed reports.

The beginning.

Everything started when I picked up Phill Brander from Schiphol airport. I had met Daniel van kerckhof some 3 weeks earlier but he still had to go to the F18 Worlds then promoting the Capricorn F18, so that one doesn't count.

We met up with with the guy building the European Blade prototype and we only left for home some time after midnight. The first night of only a few hours sleep but certainly not the last. Before finally turning in we discussed the "leftover" tasks that needed to be completed. One of those was my mast. It still needed diamond wires and I had been unable to get some 3 mm dyform wire for it. Next morning we took care of that and some other parts that had failed to be delivered. This thursday was also the day that Tony Jenkins would arrive by train after flying in into Frankfurt. Sure enough the second night became a late one and I think the boys OD-ed a bit on the rum-cola's. At least there were some comments about this combo in the later days. Geert Ruesink arrived on Friday and also bunked at my place. So now we had some 4 adult males in a singles European appartment. After midnight the livingroom was transformed into a dormetory. We even had a serious "Snorring competition" going on. Daniel and his crew Annaliese Byrne had taken a relaxed drive up North from Puntala (F18 worlds) to Zandvoort and we hooked up with them on Saterday. They had already put their Taipan 4.9 Spi in the boatparking at the catamaran club Zandvoort and Stephan Mastenbroek showed them the way as I was still at home with the other 2 Australians and Geert. Thanks Stephan.

This saterday, the start of the DCC event, was also "cats-and-Friends" day at the cat club Zandvoort. Meaning that during the day several clubmembers offered everybody who wanted too a ride on any catamaran or monohull dinghy. There were also kayaks and a "everybody is invited" dinner party in the evening. I think Tony took a ride on a prindle 16 for the first time in his life and I even believe he had never seen a P16 ever before. Actually most boats at the club were pretty outlandish for the Aussies. Nacra I-20's Nacra 4.5's, Prindle 19's, Prindke 18/16's, Hobie Dragoons; etc

The weather was absolutely prefect. Flattish water; only some windchop, and a good windforce 3 to 4 blowing under a blue and sunny sky. Daniel took some sailors along for a test ride on the AHPC supplied Taipan 4.9 + spi demo. There were some that were really interested before the boats arrived but after the testrides there was a noticable spike in approval ratings. It is probably fair to say that the Taipans are as unfamiliar to Europeans as the Prindles were to the Aussies. With the following difference, I don;t think any Aussies now wants a Prindle but the Zandvoort sailor sure have acquired a desire for a Taipan or other F16. The English crew with the Stealth arrive later in the morning

One sailor, already pretty much on the track to go F16 next season, saw his changed and took the testride. His expression when coming back said everything. This guy knows a thing or two about sailing as does Daniel and the two of them immediately recognized eachothers skills and potential. Both of them are about 65-73 kg and the two of them on a F16 would make the rest of us roll our eyes in despair. Luckily Daniel is pretty hooked on the current crew Anneliese. Good fortune for us mortals ! Although Daniel and Anneliese are seriously fast together. Anyway, this guy had one but and that was wether the Taipan would behave as convincingly in rough conditions with swell and more pronounced chop.

He got his wish the next day to the detriment of the rest of us. Sunday, grey skies almost dark grey. Windforce 5 and above (good 20 knots and higher), On shore wind and serious swell. The Australians were remarking that Dutch summers were colder then their Winters and on that day they were absolutely right. The evening before the weather forcast had suggested that the weather could turn foul. We decided to stay at Zandvoort and see what the weather was going to do. After his second testride the conclusion was made. Yep the demo behaved just as the day before and he absolutely loved the boat. I think I can welcome another F16 sailor at my club next year. At least that is what I thought at the time. Now it looks like it may be more than 1. You don't hear me complaining about that.

The Brits got a bit of a scare when they capsized in the surf; lucky both Daniel and A zandvoort Clubmember dashed for the boat and turned the boat around with the mast facing towards the breaking waves. It was a close call or some team would have a new mast on the boat.



Report on the next days later

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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Re: Dutch Coast Challenge day 1 and 2 [Re: Wouter] #36634
08/10/04 07:54 PM
08/10/04 07:54 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
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Keep it coming, Wouter.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Dutch Coast Challenge days 3 and 4 [Re: Wouter] #36635
08/12/04 01:37 PM
08/12/04 01:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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Here the next installment of the DCC reports.

Of course due to weather considerations we diverted from the orginal schedule on sunday and during monday the weather improved. We decided however to stay at Zandvoort during Monday and only to start sailing North on tuesday. This pretty much used up our slack in the schedule already and we were only 3 days into the event. A real pity but then again, considering that absolutely awfull weather we Dutchies had during june and the weeks right before the DCC we were lucky to have the bad juju satisfy themselfs with only the sunday and some of monday. We used the day to fine tune the various boats and Daniel was a great help in all of this. I think several of us walked over to his boat to see what we could simplify or improve on out own boats. The day derailed eventually in an orgy or (re)drilling and adjusting fittings, control lines and straightening crocked tillers and other parts. The weather during midday and the afternoon was actually quite good and sunny but then suddenly at the end of the afternoon the sky above the sea turned grey and dark and quickly a grey cloud of of streaming rain necessitated us to crash pack all out tools and gear lying around and bring them to safety. The weather approach so quickly that we just weren't quick enough and my electrical drill got a decent shower as well as some of my other tools. The boats however were all still sitting there in the middle of the beach harbour and had to be moved and also tied down as we didn't know what to expect in the way of wind and guts. Typically drenching rain like that is accompanied by severe guts. Strangely enough the wind never really kicked in. It was a weird phenomenon, one that I hadn;t encountered before in my 8 years on this coast line. I had weather run me down like that but not with such unrealistic mild winds.

Anyways, in the rain we first tried to get the boats on their parking and ground ankers quickly but in 60 seconds most of us were soaked and after that we just didn't care anymore. I know that I was happy we stayed at Zandvort that day as I would not have liked to have that weather on us during touring stage not did I care much for put up a tent and sleep in it completely soaked. Like I quoted a participant in my earlier report; during sunday and the later on Monday; the Dutch high summer was worse than the Australian high winter.

Luckily for us the juju's took pitty on us and rewarded us with a record breaking heatwave in the next 10 days. Several records concerning the highest minimum temps during the whole where recording in this stretch. Mostly the temperature never got lower than 21 degrees Celsius during any part of the day or night after that. With the humidity is was reall sweaty weather. Talking about going from extreme to extreme right ? We were wearing winter coats on sunday and sweating our T-shirts off on Tuesday and beyond.

Both Phill and myself gave my Typhoon F16 a good run during these days in some significant chop and swell. And I may CHOP and SWELL, afterall after the weather on sunday the seastate had build up a bit.

I think both Phill and myself were a little anxious when hoisting the spinnaker; being new to eachother and the boat being new to such testing conditions. Now I can honestly say that both this day and the next proved that my one-off is all that we hoped her to be.

We did have a problem with the rudders though and later found that the axle holes in the rudder stocks had been drilled in the wrong spot. This meant that we were sailing the boat WITHOUT balanced rudders as the rudders could not be kicked under past the line of rotation going through the pintles. It took us sever tries at reraking the mast and several days to find that the error in drilling the holes were the culprit. We later filled the holes and redrilled them to correct for the mistake. Then it turned out that the initial mast rake had been the right one and after the correction we had no serious weatherhelm at all under spinnaker. Just a slight amount of weatherhelm of the intended kind. Afterall I really like to have a equal amount of leehelm under spi as weatherhelm when going upwind. And I don't run much weatherhelm upwind.

Anyways, during the sail with the still unbalanced rudders we did put up the kite will rolling down the swell. The two us at the back of the boat slowing heating it up till some good speeds. She really did sail quite well despite the unbalanced rudders. However the unbalanced rudders and our "soon-to-be-improved" skills did hamper bearing off quickly enough and did make a few very nice dives. Now personally ; I have always looked the Taipan bows and figured that they pop up easily after a dive but that they also can sink in very deep during a violant dive as their is not that much volume in them. They are really fine bows that give a gorgeous bowwave but I had never sailed a Taipan in chop and swell like this before. Now I knew how Frank was really impressed by the Taipan during his sunday test sail in even worse conditions but I really wanted to experience it for myself.

Well. I got my wish on monday !

The second dive was a right proper one. With the beam hitting the water surface over its full length and the mast step at the surface, the bows fully submerged in the wave that we were trying to overtake and a complete standstill from a some considerable speed in about ahhhwll 1 or 2 seconds. Both Phill and I had our feet hooked under the extra 1 foot long toe straps I had put on my trampoline like a ladder at the back of the boat and we pulled out of of the eyes. I hit the sidestay and wrapped my upper body around it while Phill hung on to something else. There was no time to adjust the spi so that one pulled all the way through the dive. Stern felt like the were about 2 feet out of the water and we were both sure that the whole game was over. Then she stopped rotating forward and the now started working their way to the surface; before we knew it she was level on the waterline with the spi flogging and ready to go. I still remember vividly how I turned around and looked at Phill who had an "ehhh" look on his face for just 1 or 2 seconds before we pulled in the sheets and continued sailing.

We had a few more tense moments after that dive but never to the same magnitude. I think we got better at anticipating the waves and guts as well. Surprisingly enough we, at 85 + 85 = 170 kg's weren't taken much chop on the mainbeam. Of course my mainbeam is about 30 mm higher on the hull than with a standard Taipan and I was personally really impressed by how she didn't take chop on the mainbeam. I expected more of it. Later during the next, tuesday, when Phill and I sailed together again we finally concluded that the raised beam was really just right. More about that later.

It was a good sail although it was a pitty about the unbalanced rudders. One other thing was the screaming of the rudders. Some sailors in the past had expressed to my that rudders I had bought would scream and howl like nobodies business. Understandably I was very concerned about that as I love silent boats and hate slapping or howling noices. Actually some other sailors with the same make rudders on their boats had comments how other sailor could hear them coming from 100's of meters awhile. I remember a particular unlucky nacra 6.0 with the same characteristic and then I though it even felt/sounded draggy.

We really were to busy to reall notice the screaming on this monday afternoon but people familiar with the 70's airwolf action series know exactly what kind of screaming it was. I should have named my boat airwolf instead of typhoon. It really does sound like some tortured monster from the deep almost to the extend of becoming cool.

Luckily the screaming was not to loud and rather mild in volume actually. It is defiantely a howling but at a very acceptable noice level ; it was definately low enough so that another wouldn't hear it unless he was right next to the Typhoon. Both Phill and I commented to eachoher that is didn't feel or sound draggy, it was to soft for that, nor was their any vibration in the platform as a result. Strangly enough I I began to appreciate the howling later on in the week. Not because I like the sound of it but because I started to use the pitch of the sound as a speedgauge. Just like competitive glider planes have an sound instrument that changes the pitch of a whisle proportionally to their vertical speed. They use this to recognise thermals that lift them and the optimize on glide angles. Later on in the week I started using this rudder sound as a means of keeping the boat in the optimal speed groove with looking at the bow or at the path ahead to negociate the ways and the gusts. I felt like my eyes were freed up from their normal task of trying to estimate the boatspeed and steer to maximize that. Especially under spinnaker I found it helpful as then the crew is fully occupied by the luff of the spi and the skipper has to recognise his own guts and tricky waves. I found myself adjusting the traveller continiously (improved spi handling learn in later days) to the feel of heel, adjusting my heading to the pitch of the sound coming of the rudders (speed !) and looking at waves the bow and scanning for the occasional guts. The combination of these three senses working together on different (important) tasks proved to be a comfortable and effective one.

Now I'm not to sure wether I will try to silence my rudders anymore. There is no sound in the light conditions, only at the upper middle and high winds range and the sound is already rather mild.

Funny really ! How an attitude can change.

Anyways this only concluded the monday and I still have to type up the tuesday !

Tuesday, the day we set out on our distance sailing leg going North.

Bard Louis, a new Stealth F16 owner here in the Netherlands, was unlucky to not have his boat ready to sail in time and volunteered to help us out as ground crew.

The day started hot, sunny and with perfect sailing conditions. Windforce high 3 low 4 (about 10-14 knots) From the south west maining spi sailing along the coats in long legs. We were a little late putting the boats in the water; I think we left at 1:30 pm. There was hardly any surf and to be sure we had agreed among ourselfs that we would first sail a circle to see if all sheets and stuff had been fitted right. So we did. Pulled the kite and put in a gibe after making sure everthing was alright we bore of to due North while keeping the spinnaker hoisted. What can I say 10-14 knots of wind flat water and sunsine with 25-30 degrees air temp. Just perfect sailing and perfect spinnaker conditions. Of course we immediately were comparing ourselfs to the others and found that we were pretty equal in every respect. A thing that would hold during the rest of the day. The difference between my optimized Typhoon F16 with a large mainsail and a smaller jib and the standard Taipan 4.9 with the sligtly smaller main and the larger jib was impossible to measure that day. Arguable my boat still needs alot of fine tuning and the rudders were still unbalanced but I really felt that the boats were very much equal in every respect BUT one. The only time were I felt that one of us had an advantage was when we sailed on a spinnaker course with out the kites up; here the standard Taipan with its larger jib gained on my and a mild but steady fashion. Arguably my selftacker and probably the cut of the jib were hampering me on this course that would normally see the spinnaker flying. Although at the time we were using a line to pull the traveller car in a bit. We never released this line to let the car run out more to open up the slot betweent he jib and main. Something later in the week we found to improve speed a bit. Like I said my boat still needs a season of fine tuning and trimming to get her just right. But it is also fair to say that during the week the other boats were fine-tuned further as well and we all increased out handling and speeds.

About 30 minutes into the leg one of my ratchet blocks exploded into little pieces. It was one of the 15 year old Riley ratchett blocks that were given to me by Phill Brander to have 4 ratchets on my boat. The block was damaged when I got it but we thought that we could risk it afterall it had stayed in one piece in the years before. Apparently the crack and the degrading of the plastic was enough to make it decide to call it quits at that moment. We tried to motor on with just one ratchet but considering the expected time on the boat we eventually decided to move one of the windward
blocks to the leeward side to ease up on the loads. We were expecting the sail on a port tack all the way anyway.

BTW : I can advice every spi sailor to use 4 AUTO ratchets on his or her boat. Two on each side where on ratchets goes on the side stay chainplate and one on the beam. This system works great and lowers the sheetloads to a level where I could hold the spi sheet between 1 finger and my thumb in 20 knots of wind. When the wind drops or the kite is retrieved the AUTO ratchets automatically disengaged and makes snuffing much lighter. I didn't beleive it myself till I tried it and now I never want to sail without. Even Daniels crew : Anna-Liese Byrne (about 5 foot 5 height and I guess some 50 kg's in weight) could handle the F16 spi with the 4 ratchets. This system really works ! It doesn't reduce the force required to pull the kite in but does almost completely negate the strength required to holding the sheet. What happens is that you muster your strength to pull in the kite and then relax completely while slowing letting the spi out gethering new strength and letting your muscles rest for a few seconds then you pull the spi back in again and start all over. This series of pulls intermittend with pauses is much much less tiring than the continious pull you need to keep up with just one ratchet it also allows less strong persons to effectively work the kite as it is much easier for a small person to work up a series of strength explosions than it is to build up muscle to continiously hold the spi.

Anyways, we had to drop the spi to reposition the ratchet block. That time we put away the kite in no unmistakable terms. It was in the snuffer alright. Although we soon got to regret that after we were done adjusting the blocks. The spi never wanted to leave the snuffer bag again. No matter what we did. Eventually I jumped over board and swam under the boat and trampoline to find out what was wrong. And than I saw it. We had pulled a knot either in the line or pulled a knot in the halyard through the beat in the spi and this knot was also pulled trhough the terminating eye at the rear of the bag. I tried but there was no way I could undo the knot or push it back through while swimming under the baot. and believe me I tried. I could undo one of the other knots of the retrieval line but then we would never be able to rerun the retrieval line throught the spi out there on the water.

So we signaled the others that we had to go to the shore to fix the problem. It was then that we sailed deep without a kite where I found my boat to lacking a bit in speed when compared to a standard Taipan. On the shore the problem was fixed quickly enough although we did loose some time on the sail towards the shore and the beach. We landed just North of the North Sea Channel. The waterway going to the Amsterdam docks and the waterway towards the large foundery at its mouth. Despite the kite hanging up we had no problems crossing the channel with the large ocean going ships coming in and going out. It was actually kind of quiet out there.

We finally pushed out again and were ready for some more blasting under the spinnaker. Of course venting my frustrations of the detour I was in a state of mind to let her rip !

And I did. From the trapeze with a nice full mainsail as the result of some mild sheet tension. Tony was working the kite and bloody thing felt powered-up with only the unbalanced rudders making steering a bit awkward. If only we had found the true cause of the rudder problem earlier; than the ride would have been special. Although my spi skills could then do with some improvement as well. Anyways so we are happily covering some distance when Phill and Geert to the rear of us start making all kinds of emergency noises and start waving their arms and hands. At least that is what they did without us noticing it at first. Then drop their kite and head up into the wind while still yelling at us. They park the boat; the agreed signal that something is wrong and that all others have to stop what they're doing and converge on the parked boat. So we drop the kite as well and start sailing back wondering what broke on their boat. When approaching them they start telling how lucky we are and how unbelievable close we came to some serious mishap. Then they explain, still high on exitement: Did you see your mast, did you see your mast. I replied "no not really" Tony said nothing but he was beyond a doubt busy looking at the luff of the kite. "You were so lucky you didn;t break your mast" They tell us. "The bloody thing bend of to leeward to somewhere 30 degrees if not more, we were sure it was going to break with each gust ! You are SOOO lucky !" Apparently I had been sailing with not enough sheet tension or enough mast rotation. To big no-no's when sailing with a spinnaker in those conditions. We quickly losened up the rotation and increases the mainsheet tension and the mast was absolutely fine after that. I did anxiously check up on my mast the first chance I got and by some divine grace it is still straight and still in one piece.

So now we know how far you can push things with an AHPC superwing mast, pretty darn far but I would advice everybody to make sure they sail with enough rotation or mainsheet tension FOR THE CONDITIONS. Later I regulary checked the top of my mast and you can clearly see when you need more of both. Often only a bit more of both would bring back the mast and stabilize it completely.

We then continued North to Egmong aan Zee and landed at the catamaran club there. A quick phone call to Bard told us that he had just arrive there as well and was coming over with out lunch. And some lunch it was, Thank you Bard. There was a bit of everything. Bard even had found the time to get on to the internet and get the latest weather forcast for us. It showed that they wind would die during the late afternoon and evening and that we would have to make haste to get back in time. Afterall it had taken 3 hours to get to Egmond aan Zee, including the delays. The weather for the next days predicted light to no winds for the next day and slowly increasing winds after that. We decided to not linger around to much and try to get back to Zandvoort making the most of the dying winds and make sure that the boats were back at zandvoort for thursday when we would all participate in a clinic held by Daniel van Kerckhof. We weren't looking forward to spending the wednesday driving up to get the boats and bring them back to Zandvoort.

So after an hour of having lunch and in my case speaking to some locals who wanted to know about how we crossed the North Sea Channel and wether it was easy enough to do for them as well relating to the upcoming REM race at Zandvoort, we suited up and put the boats back into the drink.

The winds had already weakened off but we knew that we would have the tide current helping us to south. The trip back developped into a challenge to make the most of the dying winds. Luckily for us the dying off took quite some time so we still had some decent winds for most of the way altough it was wildthing all the way nevertheless. Again the speeds proved to be very comparable and only sailor related mistakes lead to one of us getting a huge lead over the other. This being no fun in the light conditions the one ahead sailed back and the race back to Zandvoort commenced again. We had some chilling moments even though the wind had died off almost completely. We were now sailing in some wind force 1 (2-4 knots) Lying in front of the platform digging the bows in getting the sterns out of the water, sailing with alot of twist in the sails and working hard to filling the spinnakers. The wind had changed direction as well you see.

It was 8:00 pm when we got back after some 3 hours of sailing. exactly the same time we spend on the first part. But best of all was that we were racing to get the beach first all the way through the miniscule surf. We touched down within seconds of eachother after 3 hours of sailing. It was a good evening and we had all conditions during the day except big very big winds. The sea was rather calm during the whole day. It was a good leg and a good trip and the next day (wednesday) I was off sourcing a replacement ratchet block.

But we were back in time and before the wind died completely on us. From my memory Wednesday was exactly as it was predicted ; hot, sweaty and without any good wind. But I'm getting ahead on the next report.

The story continious !

Wouter




Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Dutch Coast Challenge day 1 and 2 [Re: Wouter] #36636
08/12/04 10:37 PM
08/12/04 10:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 202
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pkilkenny Offline
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pkilkenny  Offline
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Wouter,

These are awesome posts ; thanks and keep 'em coming. By the way, Doc flew his Taipan in 50 mile per hour winds during his vacation (really...) and experienced even more mast bend than you describe in post number two !!!

Paul

Re: Dutch Coast Challenge day 1 and 2 [Re: pkilkenny] #36637
08/13/04 09:50 PM
08/13/04 09:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 170
Australia (Queensland)
Berthos Offline
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Berthos  Offline
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Posts: 170
Australia (Queensland)
Great reports Wouter!!

Um.... what are jujus?

Rob.

Re: Dutch Coast Challenge day 1 and 2 [Re: Berthos] #36638
08/14/04 02:20 AM
08/14/04 02:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Juju = tribal wizards or ghost often malicious


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Dutch Coast Challenge days 5, 6 [Re: Wouter] #36639
08/14/04 08:16 PM
08/14/04 08:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

As expressed earlier the wednesday was not much of day with regard to sailing. Although I must confess that I spend the best part of the day chasing down a replacement ratchet block and some other stuff. I was mostly by myself that day so I don't know if the others went out or not or did some tuning.

Talking about tuning. Daniel van Kerckhof and Annalies Byrne treated us to a tuning and sailing clinic on the thursday. I think it is impossible to overstate how thankful we all are for that gem. Daniel and Annaliese are regarded as a very fast crew; and they showed that during the tour stages. Daniel himself together with Greg Goodall finished 6th at the F18 worlds. There is defiantely a future for him in sailing and he is champion material in the Taipan 4.9 class in Australia.

I was very tired that day and had trouble concentrating but even I picked up so many pointers and more importantly, so many key pointers that that clinic alone and the 15 minutes Daniel spend on my boat just took me through months of trying to figure it out myself. If not complete seasons of it.

I would really like to write it all up for everybody and get everybody to speed up enormously; however I'm no Daniel and I'm finding that it will take time that I don;t really have. Although, initiatives like Johns and Erics to produce a promo video will lighten the promotion load on me and probably free up some time. Lets just say that it is on my to do list for some future time.

Still, I will try to give you the summary of it and I will mix in some comments of Greg Goodall himself. At the Westland I had the opportunity to pick his brain two evenings in a row for several hours. I have to tell it in my own words so please forgive me my possible mistakes.

We started in the morning with Daniel going over the boats and discussing the systems we had on the boats.

He started making the point that he really believes that boat fittings should be as simple as possible. Have what you need and actually use but make it as simple as possible without really degrading its use or effectiveness. An example of this is the single line spi halyard system. Currently it fashionable to have the two line setup on the F18's but Daniel very expressive that he views that as overly complex without any real advantage to justify that. He used a single line halyard retrieval system with a spinlock cleat. The retrieval line went through a eye in the trampoline in the front halve of the tramp and than back to a ring on a bungee taking out the slack. Then back forward to a small block on the trampoline and then to the rear of the spinlock cleat. Than to a double block (needed to get the double action) back to a block on the main beam and up in the mast. He adviced having a eyestrap riveted to the spreaderarm and near the hound to guide the spi halyard up the mast and prevent it from hanging up there and reduce wear. He ties of his tack halyard line to the snuffer ring saving on money spend on line and cutting down on weight and excess line that can hook on things.

I must say his system looked clean, simple and effective. Daniel expressed in addition to that that he really beleived that this system (also used on the Capricorn) didn't slow them down during hoists or drops and therefor was the equal of the more complex systems. I must personally say that the AHPC snuffer ring works well and may well allow this simplification.

One other factor he underlined strongly is the superiority of the cascaded downhaul system. His words were "If you have the standard system in your mast; then I would seriously suggest that you consider opening up the mast and replace the standard system with the cascaded system. The cascaded system is so much more to be prefered that it is well worth the effort". To this I would like to add that one boat in our group had this cascaded internal downhaul system and that several sailors using the standard system commented on how well it worked. One of the important points is that the mainsail springs back to its untentioned length after the downhaul is uncleated. There is so little friction in the cascaded system. It was also found that the pull on this system was reduced. I know one guy here had a cascaded system installed and Greg Goodall mentioned it to me that he would use it in the new boats. For people interesting in this
system contact me personally by e-mail and I will send you an explanation and drawings of it. I've installed this system myself in my own mast and can tell you exactly what you need to do. I do request however that you detailed explanations you are willing to phone me. That saves time and prevents my RSI syndrome from reappearing from excessive typing.

Daniel also said :

-1- He sets he mast spanner arm so that it points somewhere between the mainbeam and the forward edge of the daggerboard wells. This is really a small amound of rotation. When overpowered reduce the rotation a little in small steps while also adjusting the other control simultaniously. It looks funny at first but I can tell from personal experience that it works

-2- outhaul sets the draft in the bottom 1/3 of the sail and no higher than that. Often the outhaul is relatively tight.

-3- Downhaul should be used in combination with the mainsheet tensions. I have personally found that one needs to adjust these two simultaniously almost all the time. That is also what Greg hinted at ; he said. That it is very important to sail with the right amount of twist in the leech of the mainsail as a tight leech in the top will great excessive aerodynamic drag. What you tend to do is use the outhaul to flatten of the lower 1/3 of the sail and then use the mainsheet AND downhaul to flatten of the rest of the sail. You HAVE to balance the amount of mainsheet and downhaul to eachother to get the right amount of twist again. By the way, the right amount of twist is somewhat dependent on the conditions. Look it like this The mainsheet tension flattens the mailsail and stands up the leech while the downhaul also flattens the mainsail and twists off the leech. So it is logical to first set the proper outhaul and then add mainsheet tension and downhaul in such a ratio that you get the right draft over the full sail while keeping the desired twist. Greg said to me that a tight leech on the bottom part of the main determines pointing while a little loose leech on top increases speed and has little effect on pointing ability. Greg gave as explanation that a hooking upper leech (standing up) creates a tip vortex that is rather large and induces a large drag factor to the boat. A drag that slows the boat down significantly. Opening up the leech up top increases speed, sometimes even drastically and often helps pointing as well. The latter I experience just today just like the day Daniel dropped on my boat did all that described above and made my boat at least twice as fast. That was exciting stuff.

-4- Under spinnaker, Daniel said, don't be afraid to use the main traveller often. Keep the mainsheet cleated and work the traveller in the gusts. I tried and it really did work very well. The mainsail acts as a trimtab on the boat and during a gust I found that baring off with the rudders while also allowing the traveller to run out a bit made the boat bear of more easily and keep it flat at the same time. On my boat the effect was really significant.

-5- Jib slot to the mainsail is very important. When ever using the selftacker don't fool yourself in "set and forget". trimming the jib slot is very important and only 1/4 inch (6 mm) of sheet can have large effects on the position of the leech and either choke the main off of power it up fully. Learn to look at the leech of the jib to trim the size of the jib slot.

-6- We all found that using 4 autoratchets on the spi sheet (2 on either side in series) worked really well. The holding of the spi was reduced to a force that you can work up with just to fingers. Now during the easing out of the spi your muscles can rest and charge themselfs up for the next pull. This is alot less tiring. A good trick really worth the extra expense.

-7- Another good trick is to pull the retrieval line tight before uncleating the spinnaker halyard clear. Then with a few medium sized and fast pull the spi will go into the snuffer more easily. Hang ups are then largely a thing of the past.

I'm going to bed now more later. Than we discuss the sessions on the water ! It put shame to several of us;

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Dutch Coast Challenge days 5, 6 [Re: Wouter] #36640
08/15/04 02:59 AM
08/15/04 02:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29
Netherlands
Marc Woudenberg Offline
newbie
Marc Woudenberg  Offline
newbie

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 29
Netherlands
Quote

He used a single line halyard retrieval system with a spinlock cleat. The retrieval line went through a eye in the trampoline in the front halve of the tramp and than back to a ring on a bungee taking out the slack. Then back forward to a small block on the trampoline and then to the rear of the spinlock cleat. Than to a double block (needed to get the double action) back to a block on the main beam and up in the mast. He adviced having a eyestrap riveted to the spreaderarm and near the hound to guide the spi halyard up the mast and prevent it from hanging up there and reduce wear. He ties of his tack halyard line to the snuffer ring saving on money spend on line and cutting down on weight and excess


A fine diagram of the above can be found as a PDF file on the German Taipan dealer's homepage.
You may wish to visit www.taipan-sailing.de then go to Neuigkeiten and then locate Montageanleitung Spibergersystem.
It is all in German, but the pictures speak for themselves


Marc Woudenberg
T49/F16 Ned302
Correction in text !!! [Re: Wouter] #36641
08/16/04 04:37 PM
08/16/04 04:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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>>He sets he mast spanner arm so that it points somewhere between the mainbeam and the forward edge of the daggerboard wells

Should read ..... somewhere between the REARBEAM and the forward ....

Sorry

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Dutch Coast Challenge days 5, 6 On the water [Re: Wouter] #36642
08/16/04 05:05 PM
08/16/04 05:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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Day 6 trim clinic on the water.

This was the first time Bard Louis, the new Stealth F16 owner, was on a F16 ever. He started out on my Typhoon and we were the first to leave the beach. We had some good spi runs, at the time we though they were great runs but later both of us found new levels. We had flat water and a nice strong but gusty ofshore winds. But our spi got the blood pumping. Upwind we thought we found a groove now and then but we had troubles with the gusts and we felt we were going to slow for the conditions. Later the others joined us and that was the start of, at least for me, a steep learning curve on how to sail F16's. After a few spi runs on which we weren;t the most skilled sailors we found ourselfs lacking again upwind. Daniel and Annalies came along side and mentioned our mainsail looked to full by far. So they started us giving instructions. "More mainsheet, more downhaull, again more mainsheet, again more downhaul, again more mainsheet, again ... Wait I'll just come across" : Daniel said and he did. Bard jumped ship to Anna-liese and Daniel joined me.

Right ! And then it all started. Daniel looked and started pulling on lines, putting tension on them that I thought that has was going to rip my boat apart. My sail went from full and hooking to very flat and twisting. The rotation looked like their was no rotation. All very weird and then I was asked to pull on the mainsheet. Several times and I thought I couldn't pull anymore. Then Daniel took the mainsheet from me and pulled it in. The boat jumped and before we knew it we were double trapezing of the boat with daniel working the gusts and I looking frantically for obstructions hundreds meters in front of us as I felt that someoen had put on the afterburners with me being unprepared. I still had the problem of my unbalanced rudders so steering was heavy and difficult and the prebend in my mast was all wrong so the middle section of the mainsail was shot however even with this the speed potential of the boat was layed bear. And it was about two levels higher than I expected it to be.

Bard had a similar eye opener. The first thing he reported after coming back to the beach was how Daniel told him to pull the mainsheet tight which he did being the 6 foot 4 guy that he is with a reasonable shoulder setup. And to not be regarded a sissy (his words) he pulled it in with some extra force. Daniel then asked for even more. Just like me earlier Bard didn't feel like there was more. Then Bard reported that daniel pulled out some 2 foot extra out of the mainsheetblocks. His amazement was nothing short of the anybodies else. These boats sail with alot tension ! That is for sure. Funny thing though, later I never though of the mainsheet as that heavy again. Sure my rudders were balanced later on and the prebend was set right but I think psychology was the bigger limit when pulling in the sheets. After I knew what to look for and what to do it didn't feel that heavy anymore and I'm sure that using the downhaul and mainsheet simultaniously really helps as well.

During these same sessions Daniel told me to not be to hesitate to use the traveller when sailing with a spinnaker. I told myself to remember that and the next day I tried it and again it proved to be a gem of advice. Working the maintraveller and tiller simultaniously and continiously on the my boat really works well. It is much easier to stay in the groove and the groove is well within reach. The boat likes it.

I will have to dependent on the others attending to post their experiences as for obvious reasons I can't write them down for them. So guys ? Step up to the plate.

That evening all of us went to Amsterdam on the invitation of Bard and his girlfriend Lonneke. I think Bard had won us over on tuesday at the lunch and dinner he provided for us that day but after Amsterdam we were all convinced that Bard is the best addition to the Formula 16 class that we could wish for. When we heared that his boat would be delivered in time for the Westland Cup we were all very pleased for him and I think I speak for all of us that we look forward to having Bard and his Lonneke with us for a long time.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 08/16/04 05:12 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Correction in text !!! [Re: Wouter] #36643
08/16/04 05:47 PM
08/16/04 05:47 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
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ejpoulsen  Offline
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Okay, so run down the mast rotation on different points of sail, then--I may be running more rotation and not getting enough mast bend above the hound. I get overpowered in gusts easier than I'd like. How about diamond tension?

Also, I'd be interested in the cascading downhaul--how is it different than what's in my wingmast now?

Eric


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Dutch Coast Challenge day 7; The trip south [Re: Wouter] #36644
08/16/04 07:13 PM
08/16/04 07:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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On friday the 30th of july we had the tour stage from Zandvoort to 's Gravenzande scheduled. A 46 km stretch south-south-west of zandvoort. The trip to Egmond aan Zee (North-North-east of zandvoort) was a shy 60 km in total as measured on the 2004 water maps I bought for the DCC tourstages. So guys if you are reading this, the estimate of a good 40 km is justified. For the readers who weren't there the following post will explain the above statement. It will also explain the disbelieve of all of us including myself.

After the night at Amsterdam we good as much sleep as we could and got up at a reasonable time to start and prepare for the following trip. Working out weather forcasts and doing some final adjustment; afterall we had a trim clinic the day before. We met the rest at the beach later in the morning. The weather showed a medium seastate with a good North-West wind of about 14 knots. This would allow us to sail down in long spinnaker legs with short spi legs to get away from the shore again. We figured this would be a blast all the way down. Only one small item didn't seem right and that was that one weather forcast predicted winds from the south west, although probably later that day. We figured we should make as much ground under spinnaker as we could and then reach and beat the final kilometers to 's Gravenzande. With this wind not a problem.

So decided to set out a little after midday but I think we actually left the beach at about 2 pm. The winds at Zandvoort were still north-west and 14 knots. As soon as leaving the beach we all pulled the kites and went on our first spi leg. For this trip I hooked up with Tony Jenkins. Tony worked the spi sheet like crazy the first 30 minutes and we found the groove easily and were very succesful in staying in the groove thanks to the tips of the day before. Regulary we looked at Daniel van KerckHof and his Crew Anna-liese to see how we stacked up against them. At that time we were doing great. Sure they had a little bit more boatspeed but not to much more so we figured we were doing rally well. I personally enjoyed myself inmensely on the back of the boat working the waves and gusts. Actaully we all stayed relatively close together. Geert and Kirt Simmons, Ohhh I totally forgot about Kirt Simmons ! I'm sorry Kirt.

We were supposed to hook up with Kirt Simmons (USA) and his sons on thursday evening, They had just flown in earlier that day and had visited Amsterdam during the day. We agreed that Kirt would phone me and I would arrange for them to be picked up. Sadly there was not a call, at least that is what we thought at the time. Later it would turn out that Kirt had tried to phone me several times but had gotten a busy signal or at least he heard a signal that sounded like one. Either my receiver had not been properly on my phone all day or their was misintepretation of the European phone signals. Both Phill and Tony who stayed at my place mentioned that they thought that the Dutch phone signals were misleading. Sadly we will not find out what happened as I never checked how the receivers laid on the phone machine itself when I picked it up late that thursday evening. Sadly enough we failed to hook with Kirt and his sons and he had to stay at a hotel that evening. The next morning I received an e-mail with Kirts contact info in the Netherlands so I could contact him which I did. We phoned and agreed to pick him up at Zandvoort railway station later that morning. In the mean time we quickly arranged for some camping gear and sailing gear for Kirt Simmons to use.

Geert had been sailing with Frank Mauritz till then, but frank wanted to drive his van down to 's Gravenzande on friday and he would sail the Westland Cup on his Boyer A-cat. Frank had owned the Bim 16 before that but switched boats when his crew decided to stop sailing. However he still wanted to be part of the DCC and we were happy to have him. Especially on this friday. He helped us enormously by driving both the two sons of Kirt and our trailer with camping gear down to the site of the Westland Cup. I think we abused him a little bit that day, and we are a more than a little endebted to Frank for helping us out that day. Thanks Frank !

And now I must be sure not to forget the mention Greg Goodall who visited us on the beach before we set off to 's Gravenzande and who would join us at the Westland Cup for the next two days. IT was the end of his European tour for this year and he was happy to have some time for himself and not have to go sailing. We were happy to have him as well and get to know eachother better.

But I'm getting ahead of schedule. Days 8 and 9 : westland cup are another report.

So after we arranged for everything and got everything sorted transport wise we set off later then intended at about 2 pm. Followed by about 45 minutes of good spi sailing.

Then the adventure began. The wind slowly but steadily dropped on us. At first both Tony and I thought that we were doing something completely wrong. The other had gotten ahead of us and we were unable to find the same groove as before. For us it happened rather quickly and right after a give back to shore. To others were still continious south on one of the longer leg parallel to the shore. We were unable to catch up and I think that the trim was off on my boat as well. The others parked their boats to wait for us to scrawl towards them. When we reached them the wind had shifted as well to almost a beam reach paralell to the shore but now at a much reduced wind velocity. Daniel signalled that Tony and I should continue under spinnaker and that they would follow. We assume that they would hoist a kite soon after us. He eventually did much later after we had gained a lead over him and then he reeled us back in quickly. Darn ! That Daniel and Anna-liese are GOOD !

From then onwards Tony and I were struggling with trim sometime finding some good speeds for some time and staying with the others and at other times falling out of trim and see the other pull away. However right at that time we stayed with them and even got ahead of Geert and Kirt who had dropped their kite to see it they would be faster on this course than with a kite. We were sailing pretty darn high for a kite I agree. Their wasn't much difference in speed and at times they showed better speed but we largely maintained our relative positions. Later Geert and Kirt would pull their kites back up and we would be sailing side by side. By now we were wildthing and sitting WAY in front of the baots. Such a contrast to when we left.

The minutes past quickly and turned into hours. About halveway we were unable to fly to spinnaker both due to direction and strength of the wind. And we all dropped our kites and sailed on main and jib alone. The water surface turned really flat and almost glassy. Not a good sign ! And we only were only a little past halve way then. I think it was 5 pm or even 6 pm at that time. We stayed pretty close although the others showed to have better pointing ability than us and we were slowly dropping behind. Than at one time before passing The Hague wwe found some extra speed and we started catching up again. Then I dropped my water bottle and it bounced of the trampoline overboard. Tony and I went back for it making a tack and a gibe. That screwed up our new found trim and we weren't able to catch up anymore. There and then I decided to really pick everybodies brain for how to tune this rig. That I did and it allowed me to find much better trim in the sailing I did the last 2 weeks. Anyways it would have been helpful then but we were back to far to ask. In hindsight I see that when sailing with the others we did relatively well considering the new rig and that no rig in tune straight out of the box and that we dropped back more when we weren't around the others. I think unintentionally we could copy what they did when we were near and that kept us up to speed. On the other hand maybe these midtrip conditions were just to much for my rig and settings at them time, wwe could compensate for it more in the stronger winds, but in this very light stuff it hampered us. The others stayed close together all the time so it was definately the us.

We headed up a bit to get past the Scheveningen Pier (part of The Hague) that is a recreational pier stretching into the sea with restaurants and gambling corners etc. At the very tip their is also a bungee jumping tower and Tony and I saw people launching themselfs of the tower. Progress with tantilizing slow. Even though we still had some good speed considering the very light winds. Luckily the wind never died completely on us. It sayed at some windforce 1 or 2-4 knots. It was getting late by then 6;30 pm and we still had to do some distance. Another 12 km of the 46 km trip but it didn't feel like that then because their was a haze that prevened us from seeing more than 7 km. Therefor we couldn't see any clearly recognisable point in the distance. Not even the VERY large cranes and structures that signal the entrance to the Rotterdam harbour. These can been seen from tens of km away. Cat club 's Gravenzande is just a km away from that. These structure protrude a significant way into the saw and really look to end the beach with a rectangle corner (as they do in reality) But none of that could be seen that day. I looked to us like we could continue sailing to Belgium and beyond. In fact that is what crews started to ask. I knew we couldn't pass the Rotterdam harbour entrance without sailing 4 to 5 km straight out to see. So as long as we stayed relatively close to shore we couldn't miss the cat club 's Gravenzande. However I too was a little disoriented because of the haze. I knew how to find the cat club and how this part of the coastline looks like and what to look for but not being able to see those large structures was unsettling. Funny was really that is was a clear sunny day that day, the whole day. It wasn't like their was mist or cloud cover, just a low level haze that wasn't really apparent at the time but that did limit visibility of the horizon greatly. Then when we passed the outer marker of the Scheveningen Harbour we saw the cause of our slow progress. The marker looked like it was pulled throug the water by a motorboat. We had been sailing against the tidal current and it was quite significant. At first with the strong wind on a spi reach we hadn't given the current much thought even though we knew it would be there. Later I check up on the current charts and found that we were unlucky to have been sailing against the current for almost the entire time as we started out relatively late. One must understand that the currents are completely tidal along this coast line and that the Dutch coast doesn't have an easily predictable tidal system. The tides here can vary greatly both in location and time. It is actually a system that can be approximated by 5 sine waves of arbitrary wave lengths. This can cause secondairy high water levels and other strange effects. This secondaire high water level (meaning their is first some retreat before the water rises again) can be gone some days or weeks later only to repear at later in the month. We were unlucky in the sense that we hadn't prepared mentally for this. Turned out we run the full bore and full run of the rising tide all the trip. At its peak the current can be about 2 knots or 3 feet a second. Meaning that in the light wind segments were could be doing some 6 feet a second, a relative good speed considering the winds, and still only cover only 3 feet a second over land. I think we felt that we sailed some 10 to 15 km more due to the current than we actually had to. So some 60 km instead of 46 km. An increase of 30 %. Meaning we delayed our arrival by some 1 and halve hours. That on top of the delays we got due to the dying winds.

However after crossing the harbour or Scheveningen en the city of The hague we found that we were sailing into increasing winds now coming from the south-west. That made another thing clear to us. We had been sailing in a zone where two conflicting winds had fought against eachother and tried to push one-another back. Neither really won and the result was that both winds merged into a much lighter wind blowing perfectly east, the direction that both could partially agree upon. We actually sailed from one system in the north to another in the south and through the light wind area seperating the two. Needless to say we were happy with this new found system and we made the most of it. For Tony and me it meant that we stood a change of staying with the others again. The haze still limited our view and we I recognized the site only when we had gotten much closer however we had covered the last 12 km in about 60-75 minutes of sailing which was good progress considering the earlier part of the trip. During thsi part we hooked up with a nacra I-20 who was out as well and probably looking for the same site. It was still very light as the Dutch summer nights are very short due to its nothernly location. The twilight starts at about 9:30 pm and ends at about 10:30 in this period. So we still have very good light and we would have it for some 90 more minutes. We stayed with the I-20 and after a while we landed on the beach together.

Phill Brander, Frank Mauritz, Greg Goodall and Kirts sons James and Christopher greeted us when we set foot on shore at 8 pm exactly. After some 5 hours and 45 minutes sailing. In hindsight a respectable time considering the conditions and not really exceptionally long. Afterall we had taken 6 hours on the Egmond aan Zee leg. We did cover less ground but then again we had the current with us on the Egmond aan Zee leg although the wind decreased on us that day as well.

We still couldn't really make out the Rotterdam harbour structures even though the evening felt clear. The next day however we could and we were really close to them. Funny how a low level haze can limit visibility. We could see the shore very well all the way trhought the trip but we could not look past I would say (after measuring on the map) 5 km. We were that close to the structures.

Tired of the trip we got out of our sailing gear and putt up some tents and then went out for dinner together. We were just in time for it; not much longer and the kitchen would close. Most would stay and sleep in the tents. Geert and I would go back with Greg Goodall to Zandvoort to get a race watch for Daniel, to get Geerts car to 's Gravenzande and for me to get a good night sleep as I had lend out my camping gear to somebody else. I also wanted needed to make up the tab of expenses to see how much was left and bring back several hundred Euro's to pay for the Westland Cup entry fees an BBQ cost. Which I did early saterday morning before I got into my car to drive back to 's Gravenzande to be into time the enroll everybody.

We were told that the other had a great time near a campfire on the beach with some local surf dudes. It was pretty apparent that they enjoyed themselfs. The beach had filled up with boat and compitors already. A significant portion of the 94 boats eventually enrolled was already there on frifay night.

But the rest is for the next report.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Correction in text !!! [Re: ejpoulsen] #36645
08/16/04 07:30 PM
08/16/04 07:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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>>Okay, so run down the mast rotation on different points of sail,

"Loose under spinnaker as much rotation as you can get" says one portion of the F16 sailors

"Rotation pointing to the forward point of the daggerboard well" says Daniel

I think the truth is between these two. In winds not to strong you can follow Daniel advice. In strong winds this made my mast look really funny so I loosend up on it and that brought the mast bend back into line.

Apart from that there is not good rule of thumb apart from I would describe as :

"less rotation when the gusts are hitting hard and making you trip or when you think more speed is possible when going upwind and the rotation is still pointing near to the daggerbaord well"

Actually you need to feel what the boat does when adjusting the rotation. If this adjustment is needed then you feel it.

That is how I am trimming my rig now. And I'm really learning by listening to what she says.


>>then--I may be running more rotation and not getting enough mast bend above the hound. I get overpowered in gusts easier than I'd like.

This requires either more downhaul or less rotation. Both will make the top bend off quicker and bend off more.

>>How about diamond tension?

I adjusted this just by look of my mainsail. I aimed for a mild continious draft in my mainsail only decreasing in the very top by use of stiffer battens. I have my spreader rake at 30 mm but I'm using longer spreader then you all so my settings aren't of any value to you. I'm also thinking about raking my spreaders more back as they just interfere with the leech of my jib. I'm currently not running alot of diamond tension I think this is the result of my longer spreaders and the fact that may mainsail is cut a little differently then you Goodall mainsail. I think I can run less prebend because of my larger square top as well. Oh wait , you are running with an Ashby F16 sail are you not ? In that case I would do as I did a few days ago. Set the boat up and look at the mainsail and adjust the tension of the diamonds so that the draft in your sail is mild and constant over the best part of the sail when some mainsheet and downhaul is applied. With my mainsail the wrong trim was quite visible in the middle of my sail. The bottom and top looked okay but the middle didn't. Bottom is largely affected by the outhaul. Top by the battens and downhaul. Middle is largely affected by the prebend and their for spreader rake and diamond tension


>>Also, I'd be interested in the cascading downhaul--how is it different than what's in my wingmast now?

Take a look in your inbox.

If you want a detailed explanation please take the effort to phone me.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Translating German Taipan site [Re: Marc Woudenberg] #36646
08/18/04 09:44 AM
08/18/04 09:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
old hand
David Parker  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
Quote
He used a single line halyard retrieval system with a spinlock cleat. The retrieval line went through a eye ...
A fine diagram of the above can be found as a PDF file on the German Taipan dealer's homepage.
You may wish to visit www.taipan-sailing.de then go to Neuigkeiten and then locate Montageanleitung Spibergersystem.
It is all in German, but the pictures speak for themselves


Yes, the diagrams and photos are GREAT. However, I would still like to read all of the text but my translation skills are poor, even with Babelfish. Would someone please translate this document from German into English? I think it would be a big help for many people.

My translation gave me the idea that a photo is missing from that pdf document. Am I wrong?

Re: Translating German Taipan site [Re: David Parker] #36647
08/19/04 06:39 AM
08/19/04 06:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 539
taipanfc Offline
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taipanfc  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 539
Hi All,

For those who want a diagram of what Wouter was talking about in regard the cascading downhaul system, I have tried (or attempted depending how successful I am) to attach a dodgy diagram of the system.

I moved to this system a year ago and won't use any other system. I had some 12:1 system before which came with the boat and could never get the required tension, but would end up with miles of rope all over the boat. The cascading system in the diagram is less purchase, 8:1, but the friction is heaps less which makes up for the loss of purchase. My previous crew found the new system heaps easier which says a lot since my last crew was a chick.

Could get an extra a inch and a half luff tension with the cascading system (same mainsail used), plus when you let it off it certainly goes off. Watch out at the top mark as it can catch unawares.

Cheers
JC

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Re: Translating German Taipan site [Re: taipanfc] #36648
08/19/04 07:39 AM
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F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Wait a few more days and ... [Re: taipanfc] #36649
08/19/04 12:14 PM
08/19/04 12:14 PM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
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Wouter  Offline OP
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North-West Europe
Wait a few more days and I'll put the full diagram and specs on this forum.

I'm currently building up my PC again and don't have Word installed yet. I made a document out of it a year ago. I will put it on the forum in its full.

You have indeed a 1:8 cascaded system.

I have a 1:12 cascaded system and it looks just like AHPC system from the outside. So no line running along side the mast. Everything is internal and the amount of line used is minimal. The difference between my system and that of AHPC is that I put the internal bar alot higher inside the mast. However, Greg mentioned to me that they would start using this system on the Taipans as well. I just don't know when or even if they are doing it already.

I fully agree with JC, this system rocks. I'm pulling 200 mm out of my mainsail without any sweat that is 8 inches. When I designed the system I asked a taipan sailor how much travell the downhaul needed. he said 150 mm from nothing to fully tensioned. I got 200 mm now and have power for more. Currently I can't pull any further as my boom is in the way. I also feel that I don't want to pull any more, At some point you'll rip your mainsail apart.

My setup can be reduced from 1;12 to 1;8 is excess line is a problem;

But for now I'm really impressed by how the mainsail luff just moves up when the downhaul is uncleated. The friction in the system is indeed really small, especially if you take care to use the optimal line in each stage.

Regards,

Wouter


Last edited by Wouter; 08/19/04 12:17 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
And here it is .... [Re: Wouter] #36650
08/20/04 07:07 AM
08/20/04 07:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
And here it is ....

First the diagram and the specs; in the follow up post the explanation and another diagram of the bar inside the mast and how the lines are run.

Click attachment above to view the system :

The first one is the system most often used on cats and typically still found on modern cats from the big builders. We all know this system.

The second drawing from the top is the AHPC Taipan 4.9 internal system. The bar holding the 4 wheels and the 3 wheeled block are inside the mast and the green line is lead out the mast through a 3rd exit block and than lead up to a single block on the luff of the sail. The end of the green line is then tied off to the mastbase or hooked on the mast below the gooseneck. Therefor this green line adds a 1:2 purchase to the 1:6 inside the mast totalling the 1:12 system. Notice how the line that held in the hand runs through all the block and corners in the mast. Often this line is some 4 - 5 mm or else you hands will really start hurting. This is a thick line that makes many many bends around the small block inside the mast

The third drawing is the system I composed some 18 months back unaware that some A-cat sailor were using this already. I think I am the one who introduced this system to the F16 though and others are copying it after I told them about it. I think AHPC is so as well. From the out side the system is identical to the second drawing and the old standard AHPC system. Only difference that can be seen is that the rivets holding up the internal bar are now found higher up the mast than with the standard system. This is not much of an issue as this was a custom manual job on each boat anyway. Apart from that all standard hardware can be used and older Taipans can be converted easily.

The trick revolved around three principles.

-1- reducing the number of bends a line has to make around the sheeve of a small block. Each turn induced friction and lowers the output of a purchase system

-2- Seperate the line one holds in the hand from the line in the remainder of the system. The first line (1st stage) needs a minimum diameter of some 5-6 mm to be able to pull comfortably on the downhaul. The other stages need small diameter line that are more flexible and lighterweight. In stage 2 (red lines) I used a very flexible 3 mm 300 kg dyneema line. This line is more flexible than the 3 mm 500 kg dyneema line I used in stage 3 (green line). Stage 2 only sees load of some 100-130 kg while stage 3 sees loads of 300 - 400 kg. Obviously the 3rd stage line is stressed highest. But up till now everything hold up nicely.

-3- I used large diameter sheaves, as you can see in the drawing, for the block in the first stage and also for the block in the sail. This will make the bend of the 6 mm 1st stage line less severe reducing drag still. For maximum laod baring capacity one wants 7 times the diameter of the line as the sheeve radius. 3 * 7 = 21 mm => 42 mm diameter sheeve => 30 mm sheeve approximates this closer than 20 m sheeve.

-4- For quick reaction of the system (accelleration) it is important that the first stage and less so the second stage as well are as lightweight as possible. I used very light 3 mm dyneema in the second stage but mostly because it was so flexible and the block inside my mast in the 2nd stage are only 20 mm sheeve blocks. However the biggest gain, I beleive, was made by using the extremely lightweight 6 mm swiftcord in the 1st stage (holding in your hand). This line weight next to nothing and is extremely flexible, 6 mm is very comfortable in your hand and the good grip lets you pull hard when need be and the line only costed 15 % more than the common used inflexible outermantle 4 mm dyneema line which is heavier as well.

Currently I very happy with the system.

I did put special care to tying the knots to the block to make sure the line are not cut by the sharp edges of the blocks. Next time I think I will sew in a thimble in the loop holding the 3rd stage line to the 2nd stage block. This point is highest loaded point in the system and I used a double threaded figure 8 knot with loop there. If anything breaks in my system then it will be here. Luckily this can break without me having to dismantle teh system to fix it. My base plate comes of easly and with a stick +hook I can pull the freehanging block out and retie the 3rd stage line that time with thimble. However I pulled the Bjesuz out of the system of couple of times now and it is still in one piece.

next post the explanations.

Wouter

Attached Files

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: And here it is .... [Re: Wouter] #36651
08/20/04 07:10 AM
08/20/04 07:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Here the text of the word document accompanying the diagrams


Cascaded downhaul


Most catamaran downhaul systems today are of the uncascaded type. Meaning that the overall purchase is equal to the number of loops around the blocks of the system. Often this limits the purchase of these downhaul systems to 1:8 as a result of friction and the overall size of the setup.

Cascaded purchase systems, as often used in monohulls and yachts, are more efficient in friction as well as overall size of the setup. The Taipan 4.9 catamaran and A-cats use a simple (1st order) cascaded system for their downhaul. Often these are fully fitted inside the mast sections of these catamarans. The first stage boosts the force from 1 to 6 (purchase 1:6). This force is than boosted again by a simple 1:2 setup to an overal purchase of 1:12 . See the drawing.

The system used on the Typhoon F16 achieves the same 1:12 overall purchase by adding another stage. This 2nd order cascaded system first boost the force by a simple 1:2 which is followed in series by a 1:3 and the same 1:2 that was used in the Taipan 4.9 system. 2 times 3, times 2 equals 12.

The advantages of the Taipan / A-cat system are increased purchase for reduced size and the use of less blocks. The advantages of the Typhoon F16 system are yet again reduced size and the use of even less blocks combined with reduced friction as the line in the second stage can have a much smaller diameter than the others as this line isn’t held in the hand or subject to wear against the boom and fittings. Also the total number of 180 degrees loops around blocks have been reduced from 9 to just 7. Together this will result in reduced friction and therefor lower downhaul line loads on the hands to achieve the same net downhaul force.

An added advantage of the Typhoon F16 setup is that is uses less hardware and therefor is less expensive than the Taipan setup. Even more so with respect to the non cascaded systems. The reduction is respectively from 11 to 8 and 13 to 8.

A drawback is that a cascaded systems requires the room to allow longer travelled lengths of individual blocks. It is less square like than a non-cascaded system.

Example :

The 1:12 non-cascaded systems lets 66 units of length turn a corner around a block for each unit travelled length on the luff of the sail. (not counting the 90 degree corners)

The 1:12 single-cascaded systems let 45 units of length turn a corner around a block for each unit travelled length on the luff of the sail. The total line friction is now 68 % of the non cascaded system.

The Typhoon cascaded system lets 27 units of length turn a corner around a block for each unit travelled length on the luff of the sail. The total line friction is now 41 % of the non cascaded system if the Typoon system used the same 5 mm diameter line for all the stages as is required in the non cascaded 1:12 system.

If the 2nd and 3rd stages used 3 mm line instead and the 1st stage uses an oversized block than the total line friction is even further reduced.

An assumed difference in line friction of 5 kg’s is transferred to 12*5 = 60 kg loss in downhaul force by a 1:12 system.

The Typhoon cascaded system must be at least 6 times the require travelled distance of the mainsail luff tall. Otherwise the block of the first stage will jam against the bottom plate or block of the 2nd stage. External systems often don’t allow such stretched setups. Internal systems do.

In case of a 200 mm required downhaul distance the Typhoon setup must at least be 200 * 6 = 1200 mm tall. In principle there is no reason why a mutli-cascaded system inside the mast profile is limited in length below the full length of the mast.

Attached Files

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
One extra comment [Re: Wouter] #36652
08/20/04 07:27 AM
08/20/04 07:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

I found that I easily pull 200 mm stretch on my mainsail luff. I advice other homebuilders to set their system up so they can pull 250 mm on their luff before pulling block to block.

This means, roughly speaking, that the bar in the mast needs to be about 6 * 250 mm + 100 dead space bottom = 100 mm dead space top = 1700 mm op the mast. Take a little margin and go for 1800 mm. My bar is currently some 1500 mm up the mast and pretention my mainsail luff a little bit before tying the downhaul line off, just to get all the travell I need. This is doable as you always want some luff tension to get the wrinkles etc but if you have the choice than either go higher with your bar or change from 1;12 to a 1;8 system the later requires much less height. Roughly speaking => 4 * 250 mm + 100 + 100 = 1200 + margin = 1300 mm.

I found that putting the bar up the mast was actually pretty straight forward and easy. You'll need two people and a bit of communication skills + common sense to fo the trick.

I know of cascaded external alternatives that can be used on F18's and other boats but these don't allow a continious line in the 1st stage that advantage remains part of the Typhoon F16 internal cascaded system.

Regards,

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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