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by TexasTuma. 07/01/25 04:16 PM
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Re: I'm looking at the scores but .... [Re: sailwave] #37376
08/27/04 12:47 PM
08/27/04 12:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Ohhh - I see what you are saying. Yeah, "Best" score could be a little missleading but I would be comfortable assuming the intent was that it referrs to the "highest" score looking from the end of the series forward.


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: I'm looking at the scores but .... [Re: sail7seas] #37377
08/28/04 03:37 AM
08/28/04 03:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254
Gower, Wales, UK
sailwave Offline
enthusiast
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Gower, Wales, UK
Quote
I recall there was also a clause where, in addition to all the other ways.
If you had an odd number of races, you could check who beat who more.
I wonder why this was written out by the guru's?


I seem to remember it was flawed, in that it could be manipulated by the sailors in some circumstances (that I forget), so they dumped it instead of fixing it; the fix being to include discards in the calculation. Interestingly, who-beat-who-the-most can be used as a basis for scoring a series, as an alternative to points accumulation. Bryan Willis used it to devise a his "ostrobogulous" personal handicap system, but it could be used raw too. I think it'd be a good non-discard alternative.

http://www.sailwave.com/stuff/ostro.doc

For example in these results:-

A: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
B: 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1

Boat A beat boat B 8 times out of 9 and yet boat B wins using ISAF Appendix A. Using who-beat-who-the-most, boat A would win by a score of 8 to 1. Easy to generalise to N boats...

My vote is to change series scoring to who-beat-who-the-most, while dumping discards and series tie-break rules



Re: I'm looking at the scores but .... [Re: sailwave] #37378
08/28/04 05:31 AM
08/28/04 05:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Athens, from Gary Jobson --
There is nothing more fun in sports for both athletes and fans than a great finale. The ninth-inning home run or a last-second field goal are the essence of sports. And on the final day of the Olympic sailing competition, Americans John Lovell and Charlie Ogletree have a chance to earn a gold medal in the Tornado class.

Winning won't be easy. The reigning Olympic champions in the Sydney Games, Austrians Roman Hagara and Hans Peter Steinacher, lead the USA by three points.

Understanding the mathematics of the scoring system is a little complicated, but Lovell is a CPA professionally and has worked out what it will take to win. The Austrians have 33 points to the USA's 36. If the USA finished first, Austria must finish 4th or worse for Lovell and Olgletree to win. On a tie-breaker, the USA would win because they have two 1st place finishes in individual races, while Hagara and Steinacher only have one first place finish.

There is also another scenario. Under the rules, each team discards its worse race. For Lovell that is a 9th. The Austrians have a 13th. So Lovell and Ogletree can try to drive their rivals back in the fleet and force a finish of 13th or worse. The USA would score the 9th and leave the Austrians with their 13th. It will be quite a duel. What strategy will each team use?

One-on-one match racing similar to the America's Cup format is highly unusual in the speedy but difficult-to-maneuver catamarans. Both Lovell and Ogletree are former collegiate All-American sailors and are very experienced in tight boat-for-boat racing used on the college circuit. They hope to use their match racing skills to get the job done.

This is the third Olympic games for the USA duo. They finished 7th in Sydney and 8th in Savannah (Atlanta Games). At 36 years of age, Charlie says this is probably his last chance to medal because these boats are so physically demanding to sail. (As an aside, both Ogletree and Lovell were born on the same day: Oct. 11, 1967).

The wind off Athens is forecasted to be brisk for the final race. It will be a joy to watch. Both crews have clinched a silver medal, but Saturday will be a gold medal classic. I can't wait.

Re: I'm looking at the scores but .... [Re: Mary] #37379
08/28/04 06:21 AM
08/28/04 06:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
That's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make! Go USA!

[Linked Image]

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Jake Kohl
Re: I'm looking at the scores but .... [Re: Jake] #37380
08/28/04 06:28 AM
08/28/04 06:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
It's nearly over !http://www.athens2004.com/en/SailingMixed/results?rsc=SAX006111&frag=SAX006111_C70A&btnSubmit=>>


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: I'm looking at the scores but .... [Re: Dermot] #37381
08/28/04 06:38 AM
08/28/04 06:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Looks like our boys had a bad start and couldn't climb back anywhere near the Austrians (Austrian's won the last race). Undoubtedly an awesome job done by Lovell and Ogletree throughout these trying sailing conditions. Congratulations! Bring that silver home!


Jake Kohl
Memo to Gary Jobson [Re: Mary] #37382
08/28/04 02:50 PM
08/28/04 02:50 PM
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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North-West Europe

>>>On a tie-breaker, the USA would win because they have two 1st place finishes in individual races, while Hagara and Steinacher only have one first place finish.


Gary (I know he is not reading this but nevermind),

I know you are very excited and psyched up but if you take more than a glancing look at the results you'll see that

hagara/steinacher have score 1st in race 1, 4, 8 that is 3 in total

While

Lovell and Ogletree scored a 1st in race 3 and 9

It is pretty something to overlook two 1st in Hagara;s/Steinachers case

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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