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ICCT - Day One of Racing #39182
10/19/04 10:53 PM
10/19/04 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Acat230 Offline OP
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Heavy air day of sailing today - 14-18 knots with some higher puffs in at least 3 of four matches.

Johnny and Charlie are leading us 3-1 in the defender sailoff. We had a great opportunity to make it 2-2 but blew a 100 yard lead in the third match when we got knocked off the boat by a wave upwind on the last beat (bad steering on my part, we had the race in the bag). In the match we won, Johnny and Charlie flipped on the last leg trying to cover us downwind. In the other two matches, they beat us across the line by about 5-10 seconds (30-50 yards, close but there is no second in match racing!).

In the challenger series, Mitch and Herbie lead Enrique and Jorge 3-1. Enrique and Jorge feel like us as one race they had won was lost when they flipped just before the finish.

The Gunboat HT is in my opinion the best boat in the fleet in heavy air. It is by far easier and more forgiving to sail downwind in the big breeze than the other boats. It is making WF and I look quite competitive against the US silver medalists (that's a compliment to Peter Johnstone). The Marstrom boat is extremely difficult to sail downwind (it goes fast upwind). Herbie is not a happy camper as the beams are hitting and the boat is like a bucking bronco. At least they haven't flipped yet.

Lighter air is forcast for tomorrow. We hope to stay in the fight. Wish us luck!

(Note that this event is being covered by ISAF and pictures should be getting posted on the Southern Yacht Club website)

Bob Hodges

-- Have You Seen This? --
Pictures to be found here [Re: Acat230] #39183
10/20/04 06:08 AM
10/20/04 06:08 AM
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Wouter Offline
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http://www.syc.photosite.com/LAC_Day1/?page=1

Below the two US teams battling it out


[img]http://www.syc.photosite.com/~photos/tn/1594_1024.ts1098228752562.jpg" width="834" height="850[/img]

Below The revamped M18 that is sailed by Booth/Dercksen


[img]http://www.syc.photosite.com/~photos/tn/1595_1024.ts1098228895781.jpg" width="834" height="580[/img]


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Wait a minute, this can't be right [Re: Acat230] #39184
10/20/04 07:25 AM
10/20/04 07:25 AM
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Wouter Offline
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Just something that caught my attention :

>>Heavy air day of sailing today - 14-18 knots with some higher puffs in at least 3 of four matches.

>>In the other two matches, they beat us across the line by about 5-10 seconds (30-50 yards, close but there is no second in match racing!).


30-50 yards equal 5-10 second sailing in 14 to 18 knot winds ? This means the boats are doing on average about 5 feet a second (= 3.3 knots) in 14-18 knots winds ? This can't be right. Especially not if the finish is a downwinder or on a reach. There one would expect alot higher speeds, but even on the upwind leg one expects more than 3.3 knots boatspeed.

Either 30-50 yards is right and the time is anything between 2-4 seconds or the distance must be found somewhere between 85 and 170 feet.

Wouter



Last edited by Wouter; 10/20/04 07:29 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: ICCT - Day One of Racing [Re: Acat230] #39185
10/20/04 08:03 AM
10/20/04 08:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 254
Gower, Wales, UK
sailwave Offline
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Re: Wait a minute, this can't be right [Re: Wouter] #39186
10/20/04 08:34 AM
10/20/04 08:34 AM
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scooby_simon Offline
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Quote

Just something that caught my attention :

>>Heavy air day of sailing today - 14-18 knots with some higher puffs in at least 3 of four matches.

>>In the other two matches, they beat us across the line by about 5-10 seconds (30-50 yards, close but there is no second in match racing!).


30-50 yards equal 5-10 second sailing in 14 to 18 knot winds ? This means the boats are doing on average about 5 feet a second (= 3.3 knots) in 14-18 knots winds ? This can't be right. Especially not if the finish is a downwinder or on a reach. There one would expect alot higher speeds, but even on the upwind leg one expects more than 3.3 knots boatspeed.

Either 30-50 yards is right and the time is anything between 2-4 seconds or the distance must be found somewhere between 85 and 170 feet.

Wouter




Wouter, you have answered your own question...

30 Yds = 90 feet
90 / 5 = 18 feet per sec
18/(5*3.3) to convert to knots = 11.88 (assunming your 5 feet per sec = 3.3 knots)

11.88 sounds OK upwind, but not so good down wind...

But there may have been last minute gybes onto stbd for tactical reasons.....


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Wait a minute, this can't be right [Re: scooby_simon] #39187
10/20/04 08:51 AM
10/20/04 08:51 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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There are 3 feet in every yard so Bob was close. Isn't it a shame that we all can't use the same unit system?


Jake Kohl
And you are absolutely correct [Re: scooby_simon] #39188
10/20/04 09:27 AM
10/20/04 09:27 AM
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Wouter Offline
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Indeed the post said yards instead of feet.

Thanks for the correction guys.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Yes, well ... [Re: Jake] #39189
10/20/04 09:28 AM
10/20/04 09:28 AM
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Wouter Offline
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Yes, well who has the solution to that problem ?

Considering the origins of the SI system (Metric) is French I think we don't have to hold our breath in anticipation that the US and UK convert soon.

Or we'll just end up with "freedom distances" instead of Kilometers.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: Wouter] #39190
10/20/04 10:34 AM
10/20/04 10:34 AM
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Jake Offline
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Actually, a lot of you will probably be surprised to learn that the 'official' measuring system in the U.S. is indeed metric. (freedom distances - that's funny!). Our government declared it official several years ago (unless they undid it). However, the problem is that all of our tooling, machines, and manufacturing equipment in all industries (including the expensive computer numeric control stuff) doesn't yet do metric. Very slowly we are drifting that way and where I work we put both dimensions on most technical drawings - but we do a lot of work overseas that's driving most of our changes.


Jake Kohl
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: Jake] #39191
10/20/04 10:40 AM
10/20/04 10:40 AM
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scooby_simon Offline
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We use both.

I will quite happily talk about a couple of mm off this, or that. 5 feet of rope or 2m

Gets very confusing when I start talking about KMH, MPH and Knots

Last edited by scooby_simon; 10/20/04 10:42 AM.

F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: scooby_simon] #39192
10/20/04 10:45 AM
10/20/04 10:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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Just remember to do your conversions. Otherwise you might not land your Mars rover quite where you thought.

Mike Hill


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: Mike Hill] #39193
10/20/04 04:00 PM
10/20/04 04:00 PM
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Gainesville, FL 32607 USA
dacarls Offline
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Km vs miles: For all of you children out there- Our President Ronald Reagan was the one who killed metric conversion in the USA. Horses don't come in metric, I guess, and that was the extent of his disinterest. It had been well underway.

Yet my dang car is metric, my profession is metric, my Coca-Cola is metric, even my A-cat is metric! We would need a miracle to get George W. Bush to advocate (or dis-misunderstand) the metric system.


Dacarls:
A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16
"Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: Mike Hill] #39194
10/20/04 04:09 PM
10/20/04 04:09 PM
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scooby_simon Offline
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Quote
Just remember to do your conversions. Otherwise you might not land your Mars rover quite where you thought.

Mike Hill


I just knew someone would mention that


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
When I was.. [Re: dacarls] #39195
10/20/04 05:23 PM
10/20/04 05:23 PM
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Wouter Offline
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When I was a springfever 2002, J.P. told me that the US has even add KM distances on the signs still showing miles as well; only to reverse the change later. He explained because it was stated that it confused the travellers.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: scooby_simon] #39196
10/20/04 06:41 PM
10/20/04 06:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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OT_

Actually, I thought the metric conversion problem was for an orbiter, not a lander...didn't it go sailing past mars (or "de-orbitted"?) instead of being catured into orbit?

Mike.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: Tornado] #39197
10/20/04 06:46 PM
10/20/04 06:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 241
Simi Valley, CA
jfint Offline
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Eigther way it found out one of the greatest facts of nature: Gravity Sucks


Josh Fint Prindle 19 "Accident Prone" Moro Bay Sailing
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: scooby_simon] #39198
10/20/04 07:35 PM
10/20/04 07:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
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B
brobru Offline
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Wouter, Scooby and all,

I was studying the posted pics,..thanks by the way, great shots,...and look at the top 4 sail panels in the USA pic,......there must be max downhaul to get the shape that way,....

...they are depowering the top 1/3rd of the sailplan to keep the Uni in balance upwind......not very efficient, don't you think?

..does the 18HT rule allow for a sail smaller than maximum s.a.?.....or is one committed to use max s.a. in all conditions?

...Scooby, Wouter and I know that, in this wind condition, the 18HT as a Uni would be full throttle with a high-wind designed sail,.........kinda wonder why thay are not, ( especially since C. Ogletree built one for me that is kick a__ screamin' sail)

regards,

Bruce
X-17
St. Croix

ps.,,,Go Caribbean team! Enrique and Jorge,...
.....I believe that they have very little time on a Uni,..but I could be wrong....

Re: Yes, well ... [Re: Wouter] #39199
10/20/04 09:23 PM
10/20/04 09:23 PM
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Chicago, IL
Krisu13 Offline
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If you still struggling with conversions just go to http://joshmadison.com/software/convert/ and download convert 4.10. Great software and it is free. It does more conversions than just speed and distance.

Hope you will find it useful.

Kris


I20
Re: Yes, well ... [Re: brobru] #39200
10/20/04 09:33 PM
10/20/04 09:33 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Geeesh...I've been pretty good at hijacking threads lately...I'm sorry all.

To Brobru's statement - that is a weird shape at the top but I think that it has to be the way the sail is cut. The battens can't be strong enough to stretch the sail fabric that much (can they?).


Jake Kohl
Re: Wait a minute, this can't be right [Re: Wouter] #39201
10/20/04 10:21 PM
10/20/04 10:21 PM
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Colorado
SteveT Offline
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Wouter, et. al.,

Gimme a break. Did you guys even look at the photos. Who gives a [censored] if it was 50 feet or 50 yards. What gives me a lump in my throat (and my pants) is these guys are all sailing their boats in perfect trim in very difficult conditions. These are the kind of sailing skills we all dream of mastering, and the top ICCT sailors do it as a matter of course. Stop geekin' out on the esoteric mathmatical computations and marvel at what two pros can do on a catamaran.


H-20 #896
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