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Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Tracie] #40152
11/19/04 08:54 PM
11/19/04 08:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
What amazed me at the time was how many people entered that race. It sounded too good to be true, and apparently it was. How could $5,000 possibly cover the entry fee (usually $1,000?) and also give every team a brand new 18HT to use for the race, and trailer, and rental SUV to pull the boat, and two rooms per team for all the stops of the race? It just seemed mathematically impossible.

Did anybody add up all those costs to see if it was possible?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Mary] #40153
11/20/04 10:45 AM
11/20/04 10:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
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Dlennard  Offline
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Wilmington,NC
Mary,

The teams were not going to get a trailer; only a boat, hotel rooms and rental car or truck. If Mike had gotten a rental co. to supply the cars for free (to be a sponsor) and the boat manufacturer to supply charter boats for a small fee, and the hotel rooms at good rate with so many teams, yes, it could be done for $5,000. The biggest expense is usally food for our team. In a Virginia newspaper MW said it was 'spent in the course of ordinary business.' The race never started so where did it all go - possibly to pay past bills and lawsuits??

Hey Dave... [Re: Dlennard] #40154
11/20/04 10:59 AM
11/20/04 10:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Dave, if you guys would get nome normal sized people on your team, food wouldn't be such a big expense!

My first year managing, I was in a motorhome full of groceries - biggest road expense? Beer.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Dlennard] #40155
11/20/04 12:27 PM
11/20/04 12:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
David,
Too many "if's" involved. Only $4,000 to include boat, vehicle and two rooms per team for two weeks.

So it is IF the boat manufacturer only wanted a small fee for the use of the boat. (That would be really weird for an expensive, high-tech boat like that.)

It is IF Mike could negotiate really low room prices at 14 beach-resort hotels. (or whatever the number is)

It is IF Mike could negotiate really low prices on vehicles and IF he could even find rental vehicles that will allow towing a trailer, because most do not.

And what is not yet factored in is the fact that Mike or somebody would have had to pay big money to insure all these brand new boats to race in a notoriously boat-abusive long-distance race on the ocean.

Maybe Mike covered all these things in the pre-race meeting in Virginia Beach? If not, did anybody ask him?

Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Mary] #40156
11/20/04 02:44 PM
11/20/04 02:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 22
San Juan, Puerto Rico
Guer_J Offline
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San Juan, Puerto Rico
Excellent question Mary, I pondered myself the same question; who would insure those boats? And if someone does insure them, it will likely be at least for 50-65% its price.

Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Guer_J] #40157
11/20/04 11:37 PM
11/20/04 11:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 602
Wilmington,NC
Dlennard Offline
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Dlennard  Offline
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Wilmington,NC
Mary

I think you asked if it was possible and I was pointing out that it could be. The teams had to pay the entry fee by a certain date to enter the race. Yes maybe he had to pay some money for the boats wich cost $12,000 at the time less than the I20 that was used before. When the I20's were used as charter boats you paid a charter fee and the boats were taken by different dealers and sold after the race. I don't think the insurance was that much. I don't think the boats are abused but well cared for because the teams want to win so they spend hours and hours getting them prepared and tricked out. I would rather own a worrell boat or a racers boat than a weekend sailor or boat sitting on the beach all the time. I still see old Worrell I20's on the race course doing very well after sailing a couple 1000 miles.

Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Dlennard] #40158
11/21/04 01:51 AM
11/21/04 01:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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South Florida & the Keys
The $5,000.00 entry could never cover the expenses for the "total package" no matter how good you could negotiate with the vendors. In hindsight, my opinion is the Mr. W. was raising funds to bail his own a## out of jepardy. The million dollar purse was just a temptor.

Sorry.
E.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Dlennard] #40159
11/21/04 07:15 AM
11/21/04 07:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Good grief, David. I didn't mean the SAILORS abuse the boats. It is the ocean, the beaches, the race itself that abuses the boats. Even if there is no boat damage, the time on the water alone is more than most boats do in a whole year.

Also, in my humble opinion, the I-20 seems like a much sturdier boat than the 18HT. I know there was a lot of concern at the time, rightly or wrongly, that the 18HT was not strong enough for a race like the Worrell. I guess we will never know.

But I always kind of wondered whether this concern played any role in the cancellation of the race. Does anybody know whether Bimare backed out on supplying the boats? Or did the boats not get shipped because Mike did not pay Bimare? If Mike was not actually buying the boats from Bimare, and if the boats were not pre-sold, it might have looked like a risky venture to Bimare.

Does anybody (besides Mike) know what the deal with Bimare actually was?

It would be nice if Mike would get on this forum and explain to everybody what happened. More than anything else, it is his silence that makes him look guilty. Maybe for some reason he is protecting the mystery "sponsor" that did not come through for him at the last minute. (Or maybe the sponsor never existed.)

No matter what the reasons or extenuating circumstances, of course, he still has to repay the sailors. But we all still want to know what happened.

Last edited by Mary; 11/21/04 09:13 AM.
Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Mary] #40160
11/21/04 07:04 PM
11/21/04 07:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
SteveT Offline
enthusiast
SteveT  Offline
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Posts: 248
Colorado
Mary,

I talked to Mike a few weeks ago (he was very easy to contact). The main sponsor he had lined up to support the 2003 event pulled out very late in the game - I'd guess sometime in late February or early March. I say this because he hired me to write about the event for his Web site and help produce a book/marketing piece for future events. At first he was eager to have me put this project together and expenses were not a big deal for him. I was charging him a premium fee and he was covering my travel and meals. By March he would not return my calls and would not return a signed copy of the contract. Though I canceled several stories to take on the 2003 Worrel and ultimately realized a loss in terms of foregone income, I never saw a penny from Mike. There's no way of knowing how the entry fees were spent, but it's naive to think there was much left by the time he pulled the plug. I think probably some of it went to pay old debt because he was counting on the new sponsor to cover a big chunk of the 2003 expenses. When it didn't come through, Mike was screwed and so were all the sailors. Most businessmen plan for the worst possible scenario. Either Mike didn't see this as a possibility or he just chose not to look. Either way he is a fool and as I said in an earlier post is suffering far worse than any of the sailors who lost time and money preparing for the event.

Look at it from his point of view: He was the race, the race was him. It was his entire ego wrapped up in one annual event. When he sees a chance to make this one of the greatest sailboat races on Earth, it's easy to understand how is already inflated ego would blind him to the downside of putting all his faith in one sponsor. To believe that he would throw away his entire life for the entry fees just makes no sense.

Let me pose a question to sailors signed up for the 2003 event. If Mike had come to you before canceling the race and honestly laid out what had happened (sponsor pulled out jepardizing the race, etc.) and asked everyone to pay their way with hotels and rental cars in addition to the original fee, would you have done it to save the event?


H-20 #896
Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Mary] #40161
11/22/04 12:10 AM
11/22/04 12:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
Mary,
I dont know what the arrangement was between Bimare and Mike Worrell, but purpose build HT's were shipped to the US for the Worrell. These boats were beefed up specifically for the race. The press release said that Bimare had nothing to do with the event being cancelled. I believe that Bimare was acting in good faith and sent a couple of containers full of HT's and then Mike cancelled. The boats were later used for the Alter Cup and the ICCT. I think sail #25-45 are the Worrell built boats.

Bill Vining


Re: Article from Local paper [Re: bvining] #40162
11/22/04 08:24 AM
11/22/04 08:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Mary,
I dont know what the arrangement was between Bimare and Mike Worrell, but purpose build HT's were shipped to the US for the Worrell. These boats were beefed up specifically for the race. The press release said that Bimare had nothing to do with the event being cancelled. I believe that Bimare was acting in good faith and sent a couple of containers full of HT's and then Mike cancelled. The boats were later used for the Alter Cup and the ICCT. I think sail #25-45 are the Worrell built boats.

Bill Vining


I thought I remembered some time prior to the event being formally cancelled that there was a lot of concern because the Bimare boats had not yet left Italy and it was going to be nearly impossible to get them to Florida in time.


Jake Kohl
Re: Article from Local paper [Re: Jake] #40163
11/22/04 11:57 AM
11/22/04 11:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
Jake,
Yes, you are right, Bimare built the boats but didnt ship them because Mike had not made a payment by the agreed upon date. Bimare had built the boats and was ready to ship them, but waiting for Mike to hold up his end of the agreement.

Some of the beefed up HT's were sold to racers and arrived prior to that shipment, the next shipment was the Alter Cup boats - the boats built for the Worrell, but used for the Alter Cup.

Bill


Correct me if I'm wrong BUT ... [Re: bvining] #40164
11/22/04 12:13 PM
11/22/04 12:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Correct me if I'm wrong BUT the way I remember it :

Alter Cup 2003 as held in april 2003

Worrell 1000 2003 was to start at may 4th 2003

Alter Cup 2004 was held on Hobie 16's

So : "The boats were later used for the Alter Cup and the ICCT. I think sail #25-45 are the Worrell built boats."

Is nonsense. The boats were first used for the Alter cup and than supposed to be used for the Worrell.

With regard to the ICCT (2003 - 2004). I think only 4 were ever used there. Sailnumbers suggest that these were the Alter Cup boats that were never sold, with the possible exception of the Gunboat.

Correct me again if I'm wrong but were more than 10 boats used in the Alter Cup 2003 ?

Rick White wrote at the time :

"Tomorrow (Sunday) there will be practice races and each team will get to sail the boats two times (there are 20 teams and only 10 boats). "

Source : http://www.catsailor.com/Stories_Temp/2003AlterCup.html#PreRaceStuff

So why would bimare produce sailnumbers #25 to #45 for the Alter Cup ? That would simple make no sense. Bimare is in it to earn money not to give boats aways. If only 10 boats were used then it would be unlikely that 20 were produced.

One explaination might be that the Alter cup boats were only issued odd numbers, for what reason I can only guess.

I spoke to a European team that wanted to do the Worrell 2003 about the cancellation of this event, he is a fellow sailclub member, and his comments prefectly line up along those from Mary, Jake and some other sources. (And no I will not identify them). It was not difficult to recognise a trend.

Even more so I think there are more people out there that "know".

To make things absolutely clear I think the press release that describe the Bimare company as fully in the clear is a correct one. They did what was the only senseble thing to do. On the other hand, blaming everything on Mike may well not be.

What was the saying again.

"Succes has many fathers but failure is always an orphan"

I say the woman who bore the unwanted child probably knew more than 1 "father".

Than the statement of :"sent a couple of containers full of HT's and then Mike cancelled"

Well yes, without getting into juicy details I often wondered one thing. If all these containers were send and the sailnumbers are right (45 boats ?) than why didn't the Worrell 1000 just go ahead but on a smaller budget ? What is the worse that could happen. The things that really costed alot of money were already here (45 * 10.000 = 450.000 US Dollars !). They had to be sold no matter what happened. Cancelling the Worrell would never have solved this issue in any way. Rather, having the worrell 1000 with them would most likely have made selling them alot easier. The costs of running the event would never approach this 450.000 US$ investment. Round Texel, including the week long preceding Dutch open is run on a budget of 350.000 Euro's. And here they need to cater for 500 boats + crews and tens of sponsors. No, the smart thing to do would have been to contact all the teams inform them of a change of plan because a sponsor dropped out, decide to go low budget from them onwards + cancellation of the price. The show must go on ! Theaters have survived set backs like this for centuries and lived through them. There is always a way. The teams would have accepted it when the alternative was no race at all. And it would have worked, afterall the Tybee 500 + OBX 500 were probably done for a similar tight budget. It would have worked unless something absolutely critical was not available. I wonder what that could be ?

Sometimes it is best if the truth is told by the class itself. Truth has a nasty habit of finding daylight on its own accord. Better pre-empt that. You may not have much time left.

So lets start by explaining the difference between Ricks comments and the Alter cup 2003 sailnumbers.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Correct me if I'm wrong BUT ... [Re: Wouter] #40165
11/22/04 01:53 PM
11/22/04 01:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
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bvining  Offline
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Atlanta
Wouter

Bimare and Mike Worrell were in dicussions over these charter boats for some time. The fact that the AC was held in April and the Worrell was scheduled in May has no bearing on the fact that the boats were being build in advance, teams were buying them well in advance and Mike and Bimare had a payment agreement well in advance. Mike defaulted at some point in the Spring of 2003.

When the Worrell began breaking down, the Alter Cup opportunity came up (Spring 2003) and since the boats were available, Bimare sent them.

Yes, 10 boats were used for the 2003 AC. That was the agreed upon format. Why would they be purposely made beefier for the AC? They weren't, they were made beefier for the Worrell, but used for the 2003 AC.

Yes - Sail #25-45 were Worrell built, so they are built beefier. Only 10 of these were used for the 2003 Alter Cup and 4 for the 2003 ICCT. Some of the 25-45 were privately owned at that time (Spring 2003). Privately owned HT's were used for the 2004 ICCT.

The sail # in the US are sequential. #13 was skipped.

Your statement about continuing on the Worrell just because the boats were available is ridiculous. Who was supposed to put the event on? Bimare? The class? come on Wouter, that is a silly thing to suggest. Its a huge job to run a 1000 mile race.

And your assumption that 45 boats were available (Spring 2003) is also incorrect. 1-25 or so were privately owned at the time. Some were owned by teams practicing for the Worrell, some were owned by non Worrell racers, some were in the hands of the importer, but who really cares?

The real question is why you have such a hard on for the HT class?


Bill

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong BUT ... [Re: Wouter] #40166
11/22/04 02:17 PM
11/22/04 02:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
No, the smart thing to do would have been to contact all the teams inform them of a change of plan because a sponsor dropped out, decide to go low budget from them onwards + cancellation of the price. The show must go on ! Theaters have survived set backs like this for centuries and lived through them. There is always a way. The teams would have accepted it when the alternative was no race at all. And it would have worked, afterall the Tybee 500 + OBX 500 were probably done for a similar tight budget. It would have worked unless something absolutely critical was not available. I wonder what that could be ?


No...not me if I had paid a $5000 entry fee. I wouldn't compete based on principle alone. Knowing that my money, handed over in good faith, went towards things other than what it was supposed to would have kept me from further supporting the event. Also remember that the Tybee 500 started up that year (could they smell the end?) and gave the racers an alternative.


Jake Kohl
Re: Correct me if I'm wrong BUT ... [Re: Jake] #40167
11/22/04 03:02 PM
11/22/04 03:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7
moxie Offline
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Posts: 7
Frank, thanks for staying on top of this.

SteveT, if MW is so easy to contact, why not give him a call and tell him to visit this forum?

Wouter, your accusations and insinuations are out of line. Your cowardly post doesn't deserve a response.

We are talking about $180,000? [Re: Jake] #40168
11/22/04 03:06 PM
11/22/04 03:06 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 41
O
OBXGator Offline
newbie
OBXGator  Offline
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O

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 41
$180,000.

Having gone along with the race for five years,
1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 & 2002...

I find it particularly difficult to understand
how anyone would have signed up for the 2003
race.

The simple fact that the 2002 event was run was
a miracle - if not for the backroom dealings
between MW and a local Va. Beach businessman, the
"helicopter bill fiasco" would have been this race's
swan song!

$5,000 For a Boat, Transportation and 2 Hotel Rooms
for the entire race? Mary - You are ALL OVER IT!

My question is = In those five years - there is NO
WAY
that this man could have possibly spent $180,000
combined, if he then had NO expense (No race) for 2003...

Mike, Where is the Money?

Oops typo [Re: Wouter] #40169
11/22/04 04:22 PM
11/22/04 04:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


"45 * 10.000 = 450.000" should read "20 * 10.000 = 200.000" and so on.

Of course not all of those 45 boats were owned by Worrell teams.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: We are talking about $180,000? [Re: OBXGator] #40170
11/22/04 07:38 PM
11/22/04 07:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
SteveT Offline
enthusiast
SteveT  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
Quote
My question is = In those five years - there is NO
WAY that this man could have possibly spent $180,000


Don't forget, this race was his livelyhood. Over five years that's a pretty modest salary. But the tale of how MW handled his business affairs is much more complex than just the 2003 race. No one will ever know where the money really went, not even MW.


H-20 #896
Re: We are talking about $180,000? [Re: SteveT] #40171
11/22/04 08:46 PM
11/22/04 08:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8
Pittsburgh
windyhill Offline OP
stranger
windyhill  Offline OP
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Pittsburgh
****.

I bet you a second case of your favorite beer that the "big sponsor that fell through" is complete nonsense. This is a beach catamaran race we're talking about, not NASCAR. If he had a sponsor, he would of and should of said who the sponsor was to get some credibility back with the entrants. His silence admits it all - the sponsor was only a dream.

Many good, very well intended people do very bad...very illegal acts when they need something...Stealing is a very natural and self preserving act when you need money to pay your personal bills.

Obviously, the 2003 Worrell entrants helped Mike get through a tough time. Our $180k pulled him through and kept him and the wife fed for a few months.

It is interesting to note that the federal bankruptcy courts in Virginia don't list Coastal or Worrell Inc. or Mike Worrell. So at least we kept the deadbeat from total and complete bankruptcy. At the very least he could call each team and thank us for the $5,000.00 "gifts."

Whoops, I mean "income" to Mike Worrell. I'm sure that Mr. Worrell filed the appropriate tax returns with the State of Virginia and the IRS in 2002 and 2003 to reflect the $180k in income.

Please forgive my rant, but for God's sake try to be intellectually honest and keep the bleeding heart theories to yourself.

Thanks,





Frank M. Moore Team Windy Hill USA 271
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