Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
New cat user - maybe! #46012
03/16/05 09:46 AM
03/16/05 09:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
Michigan - Lake Erie
frenchtwist Offline OP
stranger
frenchtwist  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
Michigan - Lake Erie
I am considering buying a 16-foot catamaran. I have always loved to sail but never sailed alone and never had the experience of having a great position on board. I have sailed in races and worked in the sailing world when I lived overseas for 10 years. I live now on Lake Erie, in Michigan. Can anyone give me advice? I am not sure if I am getting in over my head! I weigh only 107 lbs. And I do not know if Lake Erie is a great place to sail a catamaran. I could sail with my kids, who both weigh around 110 lbs and they are only 10 and 15. Any advice? Thank you!

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: frenchtwist] #46013
03/16/05 10:17 AM
03/16/05 10:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Lake Erie is a great place to sail a catamaran! You're weight gives you a lot of options with regard to boat choices too. One that is very active in the Ohio area is the Mystere 4.3 and it would probably fit your needs well. The Hobie 16 would be a great choice as I'm sure other people will chime in with other choices too.


Jake Kohl
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: Jake] #46014
03/16/05 10:34 AM
03/16/05 10:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
JeffWoodard Offline
journeyman
JeffWoodard  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 89
I agree with Jake. Another option may be the Hobie Wave (might be a bit too small) or the F16 (might be a little bit more exciting boat than you want)

http://www.geocities.com/F16HPclass/index.html


Jeff Woodard Atlanta, GA T 4.9 #216
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: JeffWoodard] #46015
03/16/05 12:29 PM
03/16/05 12:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 206
Yardley PA
DanWard Offline
enthusiast
DanWard  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 206
Yardley PA
I think you will find the people here very helpful.
http://www.fleet276.com/

Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: frenchtwist] #46016
03/16/05 01:09 PM
03/16/05 01:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 46
Michigan, USA
RCochran Offline
newbie
RCochran  Offline
newbie

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 46
Michigan, USA
Check out the Catamaran Racing Association of Michigan (CRAM). We are a racing group in Michigan, and I'm sure you can get all the help you need with us! You are definitely not getting in over your head.

http://www.websitemagic.com/cram


Nacra F17 USA 320 We Don't Need No Stinking Jib!
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: DanWard] #46017
03/16/05 08:36 PM
03/16/05 08:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
Michigan - Lake Erie
frenchtwist Offline OP
stranger
frenchtwist  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
Michigan - Lake Erie
Thank you so much for your message ! I need all the info I can get!

Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: frenchtwist] #46018
03/16/05 09:42 PM
03/16/05 09:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
Hi frenchie!

Racing or recreational?(or both?)There is a Nacra 5.2 for sale on the classified board.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: frenchtwist] #46019
03/16/05 10:13 PM
03/16/05 10:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
CatWoman Offline
journeyman
CatWoman  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
Hi Nicole-
I am a relative lightweight too, although not nearly as tiny as you are!

For you I also would recommend a Hobie 16, even a used one in good and well-maintained condition and at a decent price (unless you want to spend the $8 or more grand it costs now for a new one).Check the web for websites that give you tips on what to look out for when buying a used catamaran.I believe that a new Hobie16 is over-priced, and the quality has probably gone down in recent years. When I bought mine in 1995, the mast broke in half on its maiden voyage, because the casting was defective. Hobie knew about it but didn't recall the defective masts nor inform its customers.

I'd say, buy a nice older H16, or buy one from Hobie Europe.

I would not recommend a Hobie Wave, it's probably way too amateurish for you and your kids. It has no jib and thus is much slower to sail. However, if you single-hand a lot it may be what you want, you may even be able to right it by yourself if capsizes.

I personally also would not recommend the Hobie Getaway either, it is a very heavy boat to maneuver on the beach.On the other hand, many of my sailing colleagues love the boat as a family fun boat (I personally don't go for boat that have built-in drink holders, LOL!)...I think Hobie dealers are really pushing the Getaway on customers, it's Hobie's money maker.

If you are only 107 lbs, you probably can singlehand the Hobie in steady winds of up to 15mph comfortably(sailors, correct me if I'm wrong here).

I wish you good luck and much fun!!!



CatWoman
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: CatWoman] #46020
03/16/05 10:17 PM
03/16/05 10:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
CatWoman Offline
journeyman
CatWoman  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
..Oh yeah, if you don't want a Hobie--get a Nacra. Great boat (I have one also, in addition to my Hobies). Call the Cat House in Saginaw Michigan--he's got all kinds of nice used boats!


CatWoman
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: frenchtwist] #46021
03/17/05 08:07 AM
03/17/05 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Nicole,

The western end of Lake Erie is very shallow and has lots of shoals, so I would stay away from boats with daggerboards / centerboards.

Good, used H-16's are available at a reasonable cost - usually less than $2,000 for boat and trailer. There's a guy in the Detroit Hobie Fleet (www.fleet276.com) that has two boats in decent shape that he needs to part with. Send me a PM and I'll put you in touch with him.

At 107 lbs., you're a H-16 crew to die for. (Minimum total crew weight for racing is 285#; that lets the other person be 178 without carrying weights.) If you're interested, the first event in the season is at Lake Fenton (south of Flint) on April 23,24 - I'm sure we could get you a ride on somebody's boat.

You could also go with a Hobie 14, but the ability to carry more than one of your kids is limited. The 14 really doesn't like more than 200 lbs on the boat. Then again, decent 14's can be had (with trailer) for less than $1,000.

I also have to refute what Catwoman said about the quality of the newer 16's. I've found the newer 16's (1995 > present) to be much better quality that older ones. I have a '98 H-16 that has had no problems and is still at minimum class weight (320#). The factory supplied boats we raced at the Worlds last year in Mexico were even better. Lots of little tweaks to make the boat easier to sail and last longer. Those boats held up really well in 2 weeks of daily use by hard-core racers. Still, $7K - $8K is a lot to pay for a H-16, especially if you're only doing it recreationally.

Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: mbounds] #46022
03/17/05 08:20 AM
03/17/05 08:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
old hand
NCSUtrey  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Like Catwoman said, give Mark at the Cathouse a call. He can help you out immensely, even if you don't buy a boat from him. Rarely ever will you find a guy like Mark that will help you, even if you don't buy a boat from him. His website is www.cathouse1.com .
Trey
N20 314
Layline Rigging
www.velocitysailing.com


Trey
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: frenchtwist] #46023
03/17/05 08:54 AM
03/17/05 08:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Actually, the western end of Lake Erie my neck of the woods in the summer.
Two very good events pop into mind:
1) In June is the Round the Bay Race that starts in LaSalle, MI and returns there.
2) In August is the I-LYA Bay Week at Put-in-Bay, Ohio is a great one. There will be a fleet of Waves there all summer and we will be doing beer can races on Wednesdays and at least one day each weekend (just fun, get together races)
Also, there is usually a fleet of the Mystere 4.3 at BayWeek as well.

At your weight the Wave or the 4.3 would be excellent choices. l
We hope to have about a half dozen Waves in the fleet at PIB soon.., maybe more.

And the Wave can be souped up pretty easily and without much expense.
Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: mbounds] #46024
03/17/05 09:43 AM
03/17/05 09:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
jes9613 Offline
journeyman
jes9613  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
Nicole,

There is a Hobie 14 turbo on e-bay right now. Looks like it is in Toledo. Not too bad a drive. Might be a good boat for you.

John

Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: jes9613] #46025
03/17/05 10:08 AM
03/17/05 10:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
For her and two kids?

Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: mbounds] #46026
03/17/05 05:11 PM
03/17/05 05:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
CatWoman Offline
journeyman
CatWoman  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
Hi MBOUDS-

are you sure the H16s you are talking about are not from Hobie Europe?

I can only speak from the experience of my many sailor colleagues (we have at least 200-300 cats on our beach) who've recently bought H16s and TheMightyHobie18 SX. The TheMightyHobie18's dagger boards went bad right away, with the edges chipping off. 2 H18sx owners had their jibs shredded in less than 2 seasons.

Then there were problems with rudders on several new boats (both H16 and TheMightyHobie18). On another H16 the forestay screws ripped out of the front hull. Another guy's wing came off his H18sx, although he only had himself and a couple of little kids on the wing at the time (expensive repair, since it has to be welded back in). Then there were numerous other smaller, but nevertheless annoying quality problems, such as problems with sail shape (seems different every time, often with that annoying huge bulge), or razor sharp edges on that thing through which you thread the sail. Another boat owner had proplems w/raising the sail the first time, first he couldn't raise it because the sail edge was too thick to fit through (took 3 guys to hoist it), then it absolutely refused to hook in on top.

I could go on and on. In my experience the older Hobies were much better and more solid. Sail shape of the really old ones from the 1970s and 80s is much flatter, for example.

I found the relative simplicity of the Nacra much easier to handle.


CatWoman
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: CatWoman] #46027
03/17/05 05:26 PM
03/17/05 05:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
CatWoman Offline
journeyman
CatWoman  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
Oh--here I sound like I HATE Hobies! Not at all!

I LOVE my H16, especially in big waves (I wouldnt take my Nacra 5.8na out in this). My 9-year old H16 never really had many problems, except that the mast snapped in half (like a piece of straw) during its maiden voyage in gusty SW winds. This, of course ripped the sail when we managed to take it off the mast. Hobie gave me a new mast right away and, ffter a bit of a reluctance, Hobie agreed to replace the sail, rather than just mending the old one. After that, I only had a minor problem with loose rudders but we fixed that by putting reinforcing steel plates to where the rudders attach.

The boat is still great, is light & fast and fun to ride.

H14s are fun but they like to pitchpole if you're not watching. We also found the H14 much harder to right than a H16 because the hulls are so short and they are hard to balance. We once capsized w/our old 14 (may I say this was a 14 sailed by Hobie Alter himself in one of the early regattas!!) near the shore break, and it was IMPOSSIBLE to right, even w/us 2 on it. I had to swim in, and my friend "windsurfed" the boat in, and then righted it on the beach.


CatWoman
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: CatWoman] #46028
03/17/05 06:26 PM
03/17/05 06:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Catwoman,

The 2004 H-16 Worlds boats were from Hobie USA.

If you know him, ask Doug Grant about the worlds boats - he sailed them there in the master's event and sails from your beach. He's got H-16 experience going back to the early 80's.

The late 80's / early 90's H-16's are heavy and are undoubtably more durable because of it.

It's too bad you guys don't have the Division 10 regatta there anymore. You really should see what a fully tweaked out (but still class legal) H-16 looks like these days. The rigging and sailing techniques have changed significantly in the last 10 years. A boat older than 10 years (except the lightweight '84's and '85's) and sails older than 5 years are just not competitive anymore in the top echelon.

I can't vouch for the 18SX's, but any product can have problems. That's why the boats have warranties. And that's why Matt Miller has a job (he's the warranty guy at Hobie Cat).

It sounds what you guys lack on your beach is the collective knowledge that's usually passed down in a fleet from the experts to the novices - like how to tighten up your rudders without resorting to steel plates. I'm not trying to put you guys down - it's just that nobody from Hobie Fleet 115 travels to regattas anymore, so there's no real influx of new ideas and techniques.


Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: mbounds] #46029
03/18/05 12:00 PM
03/18/05 12:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
CatWoman Offline
journeyman
CatWoman  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
I know Doug Grant in passing---I think he's a great sailor. He's a member of the sailing association but they are not at all sailing competitively, just recreationally, and then only whenever they seem to feel like it. (It's now basically a clannish little party club).

Doug also has a J24 he sails out of the harbor, and he may prefer that because he's got a bunch of kids to take along for the sail.

The sailing association here may have had their glory days, but they are long gone. Most people at our beach prefer recreational sailing (many are just too involved w/other things and have other priorities than competitive sailing regattas. So, from the ultra-competitive viewpoint, very few in Wilmette take cat sailing seriously enough.


CatWoman
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: mbounds] #46030
03/18/05 12:06 PM
03/18/05 12:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
CatWoman Offline
journeyman
CatWoman  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 81
Chicago, IL
Mbouds:

We have plenty of people with very good knowledge on how to tune a boat for racing. As to the steel plates, we had to put them on the boat for extra reinforcement because cracks were showing up on the hulls (where the rudders attach) and the area was getting very weak. In addition screw holes were getting larger (how many times can you put bigger screws in?). We had the plates made from precise drawings in a metal work shop, so they are not just crude things slapped on the boat. I mean, all the newer H16models now DO have reinforcement of the rudder attachment. I can almost guarantee that our thin stainless steel plate is stronger than the diecast thing Hobie provides.



CatWoman
Re: New cat user - maybe! [Re: CatWoman] #46031
03/19/05 08:26 AM
03/19/05 08:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
Michigan - Lake Erie
frenchtwist Offline OP
stranger
frenchtwist  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5
Michigan - Lake Erie
What does anyone think of a 1989 18-foot Hobie? What were the problems of the era?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 198 guests, and 111 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,405
Posts267,056
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1