Can someone tell me the the class weight (one design)

of the Hobie Tiger. A boat sailed in the USA at a Hobie Event.



Thanks Fritz

Fritz,

Mininimum wt is 386 lbs. for NAF 18.

Hobie Eu website has the boat @ 180kgs which works out closer to 196 lbs. I have not weighed mine yet but probably will this season.

180kg=396lbs.

180kg * 3.281 = 590.58 Lbs

386 Lbs = 117.6Kg :Light Tiger (no mast and rigging maybe)

First you start with the following fact.

"The Pints a pound the world around"

There are 2 pints in a quart. A quart of beer therefore weights about 2 lbs. Depends on the spesific density of the beer and the temp in the room. Americans drink beer when it is cold and more dense.

Europeans being far less cultured, drink their beer at room temperature, ie less dense. Now Europeans drink metric beer. As we all know, the Germans drink beer from the time they are 8 days old and can drink more then us. Therefore they buy beer by the liter. Now being a practical people and realizing they only had 10 fingers, they invented the Metric system. Since a liter is 1000 ml and a ml of beer at room Temperature weights about 1.009 Grams a liter of beer weighs 1000.9 grams.

Add to this the fact that a fine malt beverage Called Colt 45 was so named because there are 0.45 Liters of beverage in a 16 OZ can, and the following conversion factors can be arrived at:



1 electron = 9.110 e-31KG

1 lb=0.4536 kg

1kg=2.205 lbs

so 180 kg= 396.82 lbs



IF your Hobie tiger was make up of just electrons, there would be a buttload of them.



Eric

Eric-

Very entertaining! The part about the beer, not the electrons!! Pull some strings this weekend!! DCS

where can i go to get the NAF rules? crew weight, tiger weight, other rules, etc. i just bought a tiger and have only raced hobie regattas in the past.

Congratulations with the new boat. You can find the website at http://www.naf18.com/.



Bob O’Connor

Tiger852@palm.net

Remember, a NAHCA class legal Tiger is a NAF18, but a Tiger modifed to NAF18 is not NAHCA class legal.

If you show up at Midwinters or NA Championships(Mega Event) with a NAF18 modified Tiger you will have to change it back if you want to race in the Tiger class.

Save all your parts.

Hi Sam,

I'm not clear on your post. If a Hobie Tiger meets the NAF-18 rules, what modification would be required?



Regards,



Roger

Hobie Tiger rules don't allow other manufacturers of sails. They also don't allow the self-tacking jib. I'm sure there are plenty of other rule differences but these are the biggies.



These features are allowed in NAF-18 and F18 racing.



Mike Hill

H20 #791

Hi Mike!



There is a proposal to add a self tacking jib to the ONE DESIGN Tiger, among other modifications.



These can be found on the rules forum at



www.hobieclass.com



Hope to see you soon!!



Tom

Roger, you have my statement backwards.

A Hobie Tiger Class compliant boat IS automatically NAF18 Class compliant.

I was trying to point out that IF you modified a Tiger to some NAF18 rules, it COULD become non-compliant to the Tiger class rules IE: blades and boards by Hobie Corp., no tapered lines, etc..



Funny thing, I am reading the Tiger class rules and it says that "Replacement blocks or fittings shall not be constructed of exotic materials such as carbon, titanium, etc". Many of us are using the new Harken carbon blocks and they are CHEAPER, lighter and stronger than the old style blocks. EARTH TO HOBIE!!!!!

Hobie Tiger is a one-design class but as soon as hobie decides to go with new spreaders, new squaretop, selftacking jib, new boom outhaul setup and other goodies; Hobie corp itself just changes the rules of the ONE-DESIGN class to allow these changes.



I say "ONE-DESIGN" is only a lip service with respect tp Tiger. So forget this "One-design" crap and go formula all the way.



Wouter

Sam,



What do you mean by your statement, "Many of us are using the new Harken Carbo...", did you get a Tiger? Is there something you aren't telling us?

Anyway, Harken Carbo blocks are not made of carbon fiber. Its just a fancy name for the new type of plastic composite that they mold the blocks out of. My Tiger came from the factory with some carbo blocks, so how could they be illegal? Its my understanding that Harken will be phasing out the old blocks anyway.



Dennis

Wouter,



How does updating equipment on a boat make it no longer one-design? If that is true, then how does the Tornado class consider itself "THE" one design catamaran? They have been updating the Tornado for over 30 years, yet they are still considered one design. Am I confused, or should the Tornado class be called Formula 20 with a hull shape and foil restriction? Because those are the only things about that one-design that haven't changed over the years.



Dennis

Dennis,

You know I don't have a Tiger, but I am using carbon blocks.

And YES, thay have carbon fibers in them. That is why they are called COMPOSITE. I spoke with Peter Harken a few months ago and he explained that they had finally figured out how to mold products with long fibers in them. He specifically stated that you could burn off all of the plastic and end up with a pile of long carbon fibers.

My quote was from from the IHCA Tiger Class Rules website.

My comment was pointing out the fact that their rules don't agree with the boats they sell.

Which is class legal?

Whatever you buy from the dealer or whatever complies with the rules?

If someone without carbon blocks protests you at the Mega Event, can you PROVE you bought the boat with them on it and therefore ARE class legal?

What if you replace just ONE of your old blocks with a carbon, are you still class legal?

Remember, this is the bunch of idiots who wouldn't let us splice smaller lines and now we can't even use the tapered lines.

It's your boat, run what you want.

http://harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/SCCYSPW1

***From Harken Website

We designed our 75 mm Carbo AirBlocks for speed. Made of high-strength engineering plastics, the single weighs in at a very light 6.9 oz (195 grams) - including the shackle. Doubles and triples aren't much more! The strength-to-weight ration on these blocks is extremely high. They are the first all-plastic blocks with a safe working load of 1,200 lbs.

*** End Harken web site



Note: the last sentence "First All-Plastic Blocks "



I wonder why they would not want to advertise that there is carbon in them? In fact when I do a search for "carbon" on their web site, I only find reefing and furling systems for much bigger boats.... I don't understand? Sam, am I looking at the wrong blocks?



Thanks

Bob O

Tiger 852

The Tornado is often considered to be a Formula class in EU. For example multiple manufacturers can make tornado's and sell them for racing. However Marstrom competed all others out of business. The tornado class has very strickt formula rules and is strcikter than say F18 for it rules on hull shape too.



Wouter

I know what Peter Harken told me.

I guess the phrase "all plastic blocks" refers to the fact that these "Carbo" blocks don't need the steel, load bearing sideplates that the old style blocks have.

Sam,

FYI for the future

Take Care

Bob





From Harekn Tech Support.

Bob,

It is a reference to the color not the element. The blocks are molded from

a long grain plastic of a proprietary material but they do not contain

carbon.

Jim Bourne technical service,



----- Original Message -----

To:

Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:30 AM

Subject: Carbo AirBlocks





> Hello,

>

> Do Carbo AirBlocks have carbon in their construction? My class rules

state

that I can not replace blocks with blocks made of Carbon.

>

> Thank you for your time.

> Bob O'Connor

Thanks for the clarification.

Actually, almost all plastics and rubbers that appear black, or other dark colors, contain Carbon black for UV stabilization.

The Harken catalog even states that their Big Bullet, Dinghy, 2.25" and 3.00" blocks have "Carbon-black filled balls" and "UV stabilized Delrin sheaves and cheeks".

Are these considered deadly "carbon blocks"?

The point I am trying to make is that some knucklehead at Hobie thinks up these arbitrary "rules" and has them approved without properly researching them through.

Here is the rule in question:

"6.6 Replacement blocks or fittings shall not be constructed of exotic materials such as carbon, titanium, etc."

In the first place, carbon is not so "exotic" anymore.

By using the term "Replacement", the onus is on the boat owner to prove that the blocks came on his boat.

What if they are not the original purchaser of the boat?

Now in reality, if every Tiger shows up with the same "carbo/carbon" blocks, then no one will protest, but the screwed up rule is still there.

I have done a lot of contract administration and I just don't like goofy rules.

HEY, a least the Tigers and Foxes are allowed to use an 8:1 mainsheet :-)

Most of us are stuck with a 7:1 or lower :-(

ouch! europeans are far less cultured than whom? where did the tiger come from and why?

who cares? is there any racing going on? or just idle chat and politics? i am ready to switch to a monohull where i can actually go one design racing every week and talk about RACING, not read two pages of whats in some blocks, or what changes may or may not occur. get focused guys or you are going to lose any interest you may have left. It is spelled R-A-C-I-N-G and there doesn't seem to be any of it going on. what am i supposed to do with my new Tiger? go look at the blocks and wonder whats in them? thats all its worth right now because there are no RACES that i can even enter, as an F18, NAF18 or whatever you are this week, and we all know where the Hobie fleet is heading. Yes i'm bitter, that is alot of hard earned money that is just sitting on the trailer. an expensive daysailer. i post as anonymous, but i say the same things to anyones face. who says this is not important, but that is posted here might wake some people up. If i am wrong i'd love to hear about the west coast F18 races that are scheduled, or where there might be some 20-boat (or even 10-boat) Tiger starts. I did my part, i bought a boat. I will show up at any race and pay my money. I will work committee, donate my power boat, whatever it takes in addition. But lets go RACING!

wait a minute.. i bought a Tiger because it is an F18 also...right? or wrong? If not, i got ripped off and am a victim of mis-representation, plain and simple. Someone in the know please clarify...?

Dear Tiger sailor,



You obviously feel "ripped off" and mislead because you were sold a Tiger and apparently promised One-design or Formula racing. This is wrong of the dealer, however quite naive of you. There simply are not enough Tigers around YET to have a one-design class. Nor are there enough NAF-18 class members to have a formula race, especially on the West Coast.



The largest pockets of Tigers are currently in the NY area and in the Georgia/upper Florida area (Hobie Div 9). Even in these pockets, the numbers are not proven large enough for true one design racing (4-5 boats usually). As far as the NAF-18 class, it is strongest in the Mid-West, near its "wizard" Mark Biggers. The NAF-18 guys recently received new Nacra F-18 boats for 4-5 NAF-18 members. Hardly a great "fleet".



My point goes back to my previous posts, stating that racing these classes, as well as the F-18HT, will be best within the Portsmouth Class (scored together and separately). The numbers are not there and I don't see these classes gaining necessary DENSITY (as opposed to total numbers) to acheive more than sporatic one-design or formula racing. The F-18HT class stands the best shot of acheiving this density in the East Coast areas and they are a waiting for the next two loads of customer's boats to acheive this. Even then, the HT guys plan to sail all but their North Americans, W-1000, and World Cup within handicap class (scored separately and together).



Group ALL THE BOATS into classes of similar performance, and score them under handicap and separately as one-design or formula class (for 5 or more 1-designs or formula boats). IMHO, this is the best way to nurture catamaran racing in the USA.

Thanks for the input... I see your point. It may have been naive of me to buy and assume I could race it, and now I'll just do the best I can. I want to race "one design", and given the realities of this I thought "one formula" was a good compromise. Looks like it may not happen here though! Part of my decision was based on other sailors saying they were going to buy; then they didn't. It's a fun toy anyway and if this is my biggest problem in life then I'm doing well, right? Thanks again, I'll stop whining now and try to do some sailing. Hope the east coast boys realize what they have... sailing this boat I just drool over being able to race it with the chute up in 15-20... enjoy it guys!!

UH OH!



Hello Feg

Needless to say, I agree with you completely and wish you well in your subsequent debate with Carl! (grin)



Take Care Mark

Thank you, for your input. But their is only 3 HT sold in North America & not a snow balls chance in Hell of becoming a national fleet.

Only 3 F-18HTs sold in North American????????????-I think (know) your info is inaccurate. There are currently 7 HTs sailing here and another 20 or so sold and on order for delivery over the next three months.



I do agree that the HT will not acheive enough DENSITY throughout the USA to offer their own class consistantly in the near future. This is my point! I propose racing within handicap classes and be scored as a both as a formula/one-design AND handicap!

if I may:



I think what Sam means is, that you can make modifications to a Tiger which are perfectly legal under ISAF/NAF-18 rules. However those changes might not be in compliance with the the IHCA Tiger (one-design) rules.



So if you were then to show up at an event which was being governed by the IHCA Tiger class rules, you might have to change those modifications back, to avoid an equipment protest.



A good example might be that you decided to put a non-Hobie (but properly sized) jib on your Tiger. That would be fine in an F-18 event. But other Tiger sailors might object, in an event being run under IHCA Tiger (one design) rules.

You broke the first rule about racing boat selection: "What boats ARE BEING RACED in my target area". I am sorry that someone sold you a bill of goods about the current market penetration of the Tiger, but you should have known better than to believe a salesman.

But more Tigers are being sold all the time. All of the new Tiger owners I have spoken to(seven) love the boat. It has an excellent history of success in EU too. I am sure that it will have a national presence one day, just not today.

You have a choice of finding where the other Tigers will be racing (they try to meet at certain regattas) and travel with them or going to more local races and trying to build local interest. You would definitely attract a lot of attention as the only Tiger.

On classes.

The Tiger actually qualifies under three different Class organizations.

1) The IHCA Tiger mfg. one-design class. Open to only Hobie Class Rule compliant Tigers. At most Hobie Fleet regattas they will score the Tiger as a Class. The Tiger is the only F18 that is allowed to race at the Hobie midwinters and the NAs (Mega-Event) in Ft. Walton in October.

2) The International F18 Class. Supposedly, all Tigers are built at the factory to fit this rule. BUT, all IF18 rules are not legal Hobie Class rules. You could make IF18 legal changes to a Tiger that are not Hobie Class legal(new sails, etc.), but IHCA is trying to follow some of the IF18 changes.

3) NorthAmericanF18 Class. This is a Class that uses its own set of rules which is similar to the IF18 Class.

It has numerous modifications. These modifications allow US Inter18s to race despite the fact that they have a larger sail area.



So if you keep your boat Hobie Class legal you will be able to race all three classes.

Sam,,,



It is my understanding that US Inter-18's are only allowed to race NAF-18 IF they purchase the new NAF-18 certified sailplans. Which, of course, would give them the same sail area limits as everyone else.

samevans & feg.. thank you for your input. valuble information. For the record it must be stated that although I may have been persuaded to buy a boat i can not race as much as I would like, it was not the dealer who did that. He showed me the boat: I bought it. Please don't read any more into it than that. It was my sailing peers who talked me into it, and I'll pay them back on the water. When i suggested that I had been duped, it was in regard to the Hobie corporation marketing a boat as F18 compliant, which i now see that it is, with a twist or two. I am learning. Thanks again for the valuable info, & I hope to see you folks on the water some day. I'll enjoy this boat alot as i get over this more and more each day. The boat is awsome, which is even more reason I want to race it. ciao.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

This is by far the best, most informative post on any of the forums I`ve seen so far.
I`ve been watching the F16 forum & have become bored to tears with all the theory - If only they would go sailing some time & relate real information.

Cheers
Steve

You don't mean that the argument about a 8.5 meter mast instead of a 9.0 meter mast doesn't have you giddy with delight?

Anyway, this thread started almost a year ago, so let us look at what has happened.
The F18HT became the next Worrell boat, which spured sales tremendously and should generate some used boats next year.
The Tiger Class has had steady growth throughout NA. Though more have been sold, 26 Tigers made it to Ft Walton Beach for the NA's. Overall, the Mega's had 203 boats.
Hobie Corp has learned to "bend with the wind" on the Tiger Class rules, allowing many of the iF18 "improvements" in quickly.

P.S. And wouter is still doesn't have a boat to race and is still "building" his legendary Tiafoon.

My birthday cake is a composite material, so was yesterday's lunch and neither have carbon fiber in them. The blocks are not called composite because they have carbon in them. They're called composite because they're made of more than one material.