Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Racing advice [Re: scooby_simon] #48187
04/29/05 02:50 PM
04/29/05 02:50 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Here's a true story and case study of getting to the start early.

Last regatta I was at 1 month ago conditions were very unsettled as a storm front was coming in. The course was being set up 90 degrees different from the day before, so I was out early checking it out and finding the marks. The multihulls were scheduled to be the first group. The line was being fiddled with trying to get the position just right, and I could tell the committee was having trouble getting things just right due to the large wind shifts.

Time for the first shape came, so the committee finalized the start and initiated our sequence. No sooner did they do so than a 30 degree wind shift occurred. This shift brought the pin end of the line closer to the first mark and made the port tack clearly favored.

I decided to go with a pin-end port start and made is almost directly to the mark on one tack and well ahead. Being at the start early and appreciating the unsettled conditions put me in a position to exploit this opportunity.
I was first at the mark because I sailed the shortest distance to it.

Summary: Sail the shortest distance possible around the course!

[Of course the committee sqared the course up for the subsequent races.]

...don't do much singing, but do talk to myself an aweful lot...


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Racing advice [Re: EasyReiter] #48188
04/29/05 07:38 PM
04/29/05 07:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 277
Baton Rouge, LA
Dean Offline
enthusiast
Dean  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 277
Baton Rouge, LA
Read Rick and Mary's book.
Also, get a copy of Gary Jobson's book, "Championship Sailing".
Bethwaite's lengthy thesus probably will not be matched in our lifetime; excellent applied research.

Re: Racing advice [Re: EasyReiter] #48189
04/30/05 01:26 PM
04/30/05 01:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
rhodysail Offline
old hand
rhodysail  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 894
Branford, CT
Quote
What advice would you give someone trying to make the transition from B fleet to A fleet regarding tactics.?


If you want to get better you need to race against the best competition as often as possible.
Don't wait until you're "good enough" for A fleet. Start racing in A fleet and you will get better, provided you're putting in the effort to learn.

Re: Racing advice [Re: brobru] #48190
04/30/05 05:28 PM
04/30/05 05:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4
redvanman Offline
stranger
redvanman  Offline
stranger

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4
ok this singing thing- what you are doing is occuping your anxious mind.This nervous,critical and very active thing
sees the guy behind catching up or going faster or higher and makes you tighten your grip on the tiller grit your teeth and look for faults or things to blame. It actually interferes with you sailing the boat!Keep it occupied (in this case by singing!)
Your subconcious mind which helps you do everyday things like walking,eating,driving etc just fine without overanylising them is then free to sail as if on autopilot.
You find alterations to sails and trim are much more fluid and automatic.
You cant force this feeling but can learn to allow it to happen.
Make sense ?
Good book on this is 'The Winning Mind'.

gary


gary145
Re: Racing advice [Re: scooby_simon] #48191
05/02/05 01:21 PM
05/02/05 01:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
addict
flumpmaster  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Quote
Get your boat speed up with the front runners first.


This is very good advice - getting the straight line speed, tacks gybes and roundings sorted first gives a firm foundation on which to build tactics on (starts, favored side of course, inside lines, covering etc). I had to opportunity of practicing all winter long with two other like boats skippered and crewed by great sailors. This really accelerated our learning curve on a new boat. Now I can start to think about the tactical stuff and actually execute it. Previously I'd have tactical plans...but not enough speed or technique to use them (blown tacks etc).

This past weekend I crewed on a Hobie 20 in a one design class. At times we had the same or better boat speed than the guy who won, but he had better tactics and made less mistakes...so he got 5 bullets. On the other hand our boat speed rescued us from some of our mistakes so we ended up with second place.

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Racing advice [Re: Jalani] #48192
05/02/05 02:02 PM
05/02/05 02:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
enthusiast
sparky  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
Quote
GET A GOOD START!


One of the first things I read about sailboat racing back in the early 80's was "Your finishing position will be the same as your starting position, give or take 10 percent."

To move from B Fleet to A Fleet, work on your starts. The best reference on how to get good starts comes from Rick White's book/video. The best way to learn how to get good starts is to go to one of Rick White's Sailing Seminars. I have been to two, and they are worth every penny (including driving my motorhome from Michigan to Key Largo pulling my boat)!


Les Gallagher
Re: Racing advice [Re: EasyReiter] #48193
05/04/05 10:14 AM
05/04/05 10:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
EasyReiter Offline OP
enthusiast
EasyReiter  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
Thanks for all of the ideas. (I have found that the books are somewhat out of date none talk about sailing with a spin) Some things I have learned in the last several races and in keeping with the idea that if you are first at the marks you do not have to worry about tactics.

It was said by someone that "not much changes from up wind to down wind" I have found this to be true,
the boards stay down, the main is centered and fairly tight, and fly the spin hot with one hull just up.
depowering controls are to travel out, sheet out for twist, and downhaul. any comments on how to speed up?

in a blow the boards come up (been told- never tried).

anyone got any go faster ideas for spin boats down wind in med air? or blowing dem dawgs off day chains.


Marc Reiter I 20 #861 Dikes, Ferries and Tramps. www.texascitydike.com
Re: Racing advice [Re: EasyReiter] #48194
05/04/05 10:55 AM
05/04/05 10:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
addict
Thomm225  Offline
addict

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Actually, you do need to make some changes when going from upwind to the downwind.

1. Adjust mast rotation. ( for fulller main; how much depends on wind speed/boat speed)

2. Ease main traveler off center a bit (how much depends on conditions and boat)

3. Ease main sheet for some twist.

4. furl jib? ( I have a uni so I wouldn't know about that for sure)

5. Ease downhaul in light wind



Tom Turlington
F17 #12

Re: Racing advice [Re: Thomm225] #48195
05/04/05 12:24 PM
05/04/05 12:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
On the F18, we change quite a lot from upwind to downwind depending on how intensely we are racing. Downwind we do the following:

mast rotation to 90
mainsail outhaul gets loosened a bit
Boards come up about 12" (since we don't need windward lift anymore but we still want the boat to track straight)
jib gets eased
downhaul gets eased if we're not overpowered

I'm still working with the mainsail traveler position I see most leaving them centered but I really don't think I get good flow with it centered.

All of these get reversed for going back upwind.

As far as furling the jib, generally we do not furl it but do ease it and trim it to fly tales. If it is extremely light, we'll sometimes furl the jib if it's just hanging there.


Jake Kohl
Re: Racing advice [Re: Thomm225] #48196
05/04/05 01:54 PM
05/04/05 01:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
veteran
Tornado  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Dad always says "Three things that make you a better racer: Practice; Practice; and more Practice!"

What's more, doing the above with same crew that you race with really makes a huge difference. The last few years I find I'm always sailing/racing with different crews. The leaders always seem to have the same crew for years & years.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: Racing advice [Re: Tornado] #48197
05/04/05 03:21 PM
05/04/05 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
addict
Thomm225  Offline
addict

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Staying with this upwind/downwind part of racing, I believe the transition from upwind to downwind (and vice versa) is very important and does take some practice. (especially on a unirig) Rounding " A " mark, you are usually picking up speed as you go through the reach part of the turn. At the same time, you have to come in off the trapeze and get the spinnaker up (plus make all the other transition adjustments). I usually will do bare away sets because of this and because I do not want to lose boat speed gybe setting. I gybe after the bare away set if that is where I want to go. (and if traffic will allow it!)

" C " mark can be worse depending on traffic. Sometimes when coming in at 15 plus miles per hour it is best/safer to just drop the spinnaker early, but since we are racing, many will keep it up and over shoot or scare the bejesus out of another boat caught in a traffic jam at the mark.

Maybe someone could prioritize the following.

1. Get a good start

2. Favored side of the course ( wind/current)

3. Boat speed ( which includes a ton of stuff: spreader rake/diamond tension, body placement, sheet tension, mast rake, mast rotation, downhaul, traveler positioning, etc.)

4. Transitioning from upwind to downwind and vice versa.

5. Executing good tacks and gybes.

6. Game plan when trying to overtake the leader or the guy just in front of you.

7. Knowing the rules (especially when boats meet)


Tom Turlington
F17 #124




Re: Racing advice [Re: Thomm225] #48198
05/06/05 08:52 AM
05/06/05 08:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Quote
Maybe someone could prioritize the following.

1. Get a good start

2. Favored side of the course ( wind/current)

3. Boat speed ( which includes a ton of stuff: spreader rake/diamond tension, body placement, sheet tension, mast rake, mast rotation, downhaul, traveler positioning, etc.)

4. Transitioning from upwind to downwind and vice versa.

5. Executing good tacks and gybes.

6. Game plan when trying to overtake the leader or the guy just in front of you.

7. Knowing the rules (especially when boats meet)


I am by no means a master at winning, but my priorities would fall (generally) like this:

1) Get a good start on the favored side of the line
2) Good tacks and jybes
3) Good mark roundings (spin sets and douses, especially)
4) Favored side of course
5) Good boat speed (sail trim, settings, etc.)

If you're on at the start, you may not have to worry about overtaking people! If you're on the favored side with good boat speed, it is likely that those there with you will be going as fast as you and not really a candidate for overtaking.

In my case, transitions (tacks, gybes, and mark roundings) are where I see our troubles. Boat speed can rarely cure an overshoot while dousing the spin or a blown tack.


Jay

Re: Racing advice [Re: waterbug_wpb] #48199
05/06/05 01:55 PM
05/06/05 01:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
addict
brobru  Offline
addict
B

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
As to a priority, this post is respective to a I-17 normal in a open class situation.

1. Clean air start

2. Clean air up-the-course


I had many instances, where I started with-the-crowd, and the Uni did not have clean air. She could not beat a H16 as for speed or point!

I learned that CLEAN AIR for the I 17 is #1.
I have even given the 'first line' 5-6 boatlenghts at the start, just to get them out of the way, then I just get my boat dialed in, the I-17 beats then at the 1st crossing, they pull their hair, I just keep singing.

Also, I find that upwind, to stay away from the other boats, for the reason of clean air, is a powerful key to success. Even to the point of choosing this aspect over favored tack.

It is definately the 'anti-crowd' aspect. It works.

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

Re: Racing advice [Re: brobru] #48200
05/06/05 05:15 PM
05/06/05 05:15 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Thanks Bruce--I've struggled uni-rigged, so I'll give the antisocial approach a try.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: Racing advice [Re: EasyReiter] #48201
05/06/05 08:04 PM
05/06/05 08:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 49
M
Mark L Offline
newbie
Mark L  Offline
newbie
M

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 49
Break it down into catagories:

Boat speed: Am I consistantly keeping up with other boats in like conditions? Is the problem point or speed? How do
I correct for either problem?

Boat handling: Am I getting around marks as quick as anybody? Tacking and gybing with others without losing distance? Am I hitting the line at speed, on time, and with space to accelerate?

"Strategery": Do I know what the wind is doing? Is it occilating, is there a persistant shift, or unpredictable ? Do I know what side of the course to go to and am I planning my start accordingly?


Tactics: Do I know the rules? What will I do if I don't get
clean air after my start? Always have a plan B ready to go
at all roundings and starts. Am I aware of what is happening
as the race unfolds?

Equipment: Are my sails OK? Is my boat set up like the A fleeters?


Re: Racing advice [Re: ejpoulsen] #48202
05/07/05 06:46 AM
05/07/05 06:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
addict
brobru  Offline
addict
B

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
Eric and other Uni's

What I do now, again, this is for a Uni in a open class, is automatically start at the opposite end on the line where the rest of the class is ( most of the time, I will be at the pin end, port start)

and, it is very nice, for you have unobstucted view of the pin, the line and the RC boat ( flags and such)

....bang,...you are off!

...at worst( 50% 0f the time), I have to duck 1 lead boat ( in my case, an I-20),for we will be equal at crossing, but I am on port....and off I go, full throttle, no problem

...the other 50% of the time, the Uni is 1st at crossing, ditto to above...

Maximize what the Uni does best, outpointing every jib cat by 10 - 15 degrees.......

.....oh yes,...when you are smokin' everyone, you will get a tremendous urge to sing....I believe you will have a silly grin on also...

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

Re: Racing advice [Re: brobru] #48203
05/07/05 02:21 PM
05/07/05 02:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
Eric and other Uni's

What I do now, again, this is for a Uni in a open class, is automatically start at the opposite end on the line where the rest of the class is ( most of the time, I will be at the pin end, port start)

and, it is very nice, for you have unobstucted view of the pin, the line and the RC boat ( flags and such)

....bang,...you are off!

...at worst( 50% 0f the time), I have to duck 1 lead boat ( in my case, an I-20),for we will be equal at crossing, but I am on port....and off I go, full throttle, no problem

...the other 50% of the time, the Uni is 1st at crossing, ditto to above...

Maximize what the Uni does best, outpointing every jib cat by 10 - 15 degrees.......

.....oh yes,...when you are smokin' everyone, you will get a tremendous urge to sing....I believe you will have a silly grin on also...

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix


Bruice, I do this, but will calculate things a little more.

Am I the fastest boat (or nearly)? Yes, I can start where I like as I should be able to just sail away from people
Am I the highest pointing boat ? Yes, Start at the Stb end (if favoured) and fight like hell for the best place - I will be able to climb away from any faster boats and so wont get any dirty air
Am I mid fleet or lower in speed - go for clean air and forget the line bias - if you are not able to sail away from people into clean air, get it to start with - in this case it is worth starting on port and ducking a fair few sterns to get clean air and then tack back if the left is the right side to go....

Clean air is king, but use your boats performace as a driver to decide how you start.

Another thing. Do as many starts as you can and push it when it is "only club racing" - I was over early last sunday PM as I was trying a new method of "stopping quickly" and got it wrong and shot over the line with 30 seconds to go (opps) - Crash gybe and started on port and I still only ducked 3 transoms.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Racing advice [Re: scooby_simon] #48204
05/08/05 09:54 AM
05/08/05 09:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
addict
brobru  Offline
addict
B

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
Scooby and Unis and all,

Ok,..so here is part 2 of the above starting scenario,..

We usually run 4-5 races a regatta day..

By race 3, a few other cats start doing the pin end start with me,..figuring that it is better down there ,.so they want to be there to...geez!

Then Scooby, I fight for the exact 'pin', so I can,
1. maintain clean air
2. Outpoint
3. Let the other cats ( now lower) tangle ( we are on port) with the oncoming starboard starters,....effectively 'blocking' for you,....it gets a little entertaining when they all converge ...oh well,....then continue as above,.....


..Scooby, I hope you are getting another Uni.


regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

Re: Racing advice [Re: brobru] #48205
05/08/05 04:20 PM
05/08/05 04:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote


..Scooby, I hope you are getting another Uni.


regards,

Bruce
St. Croix


Yup, but must sell the 17 first. New boat is very very [Linked Image] at the moment. But it will be fast !


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 116 guests, and 82 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,405
Posts267,056
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1