Downwind part of the course. Boat from behind has more wind and is over taking the boat in front. Boat behind tries to pass to leeward of the boat in front. Once to leeward the overtaking now leeward boat calls the windward boat to head up.
The windward boat states, "No, you are an overtaking boat, you have to avoid me"
Leeward boat says, "no, I am now a leeward boat, and I can luff you up"

Both sailors disagree and a little contact is had.

Also you should now, both guys are good friends, this was in winds of 2 knots or less and the boats were sunfish sail boats.

We are just trying to learn the rules better for the next time.

So the question is, when is an overtaking boat no longer an over taking boat and now the leeward boat. Do note, when contact was had, it was the windward side of the leeward boat hitting the leeward side of the windward boat. No contact was had with the stern or bows of the boats(if that matters)

Also, when passing to leeward down wind, how far can you take the windward boat up in a luff tactic?

Granted, these types of situations do not happen that often in cats, but I am realizing I need to get a better grip on the rules.

Last question, what is the best book out there for learning the rules.

Thanks

Overtaking boat had no rights until overlap was established. Initially, the leeward boat must give the windward boat room and opportunity to avoid, but that only holds for a brief period (RRS 15). Leeward still has the over-riding responsibility to avoid contact when it becomes evident that windward is not keeping clear (RRS 14b). Leeward should have hailed "protest" and continued on her merry way - contact is slow.

Proper course is in there, too (RRS 17.1). Leeward has to sail proper course as though windward weren't there when becoming overlapped within two boatlengths to leeward - following puffs is fine, but a trip to the moon is not warranted.

Ties back into the other thread on advice - overtaking boat should have recognized the issue developing and made a better pass while in the puff. In really light air like that, I would have gone higher with the puff, gotten some separation before the pass, and taken the other boat on my leeward side. He'll get the puff you're on eventually, but you'll conserve apparent and momentum by staying away from him.

I love that light air stuff!

My experience if you luff someone and they don't respond properly and you don't make contact and then protest the other boat for not responding to your luff you won't win. You have to make contact. Thats contact, a tap not collision.

Hey Mike -

Keep in mind that by making that contact, you break a rule. If there's no damage or injury, you can't be penalized, but you still break a rule and the protest committee will likely say so. Also remember, if you're the overtaking boat less than two boatlengths to leeward, you'd probably get tossed, not the windward boat. It rarely pays to pass someone close to leeward - you're too limited in what you can do.

Best bet - stay with your puff, keep the boat moving, stay clear of the slower guy. You're going to pass him clean in the conditions described if you can resist the magic gravitational magnetic "come to me" pull that seems to occur. I'm guilty - and learned my lesson.

17.1 If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lenghts to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain overlapped within that distance.

The leeward boat had no rights to luff the windward boat and should accept a DSQ, if the windward boat protested and the lee boat did not do her turns.

BUT if the boats have differing "proper courses" say a Dingy and a Cat, and cat passes to the lee of a boat sailing a deeper course, then once overlapped to leeward within 2 boat lengths you are sailing your proper course and windward boat should keep clear. ?????

The leeward boat shall not sail above her proper course. In this situation the cat should not sail above her proper couse and should leave the dingy in the dust at her sterns. (at which point the dingy can do as it likes.)

I looked and found no definition for proper course.

Proper Course: A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course before her starting signal.

Some dingy sailors do NOT understand "A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible" and always try and force this to mean "the shortest" distance.... Can get a little exciting at 15Kts...

A not-so-old salt once told me,
'Never pass to leeward.'

sea ya
tami

True John.
The the R.R.S simply states "causes damage or injury".
The Appeals Committee has used the strictest definition of this term to include ANY noticable effect from the contact.
This even includes a scratch in the gel coat.
In the rules there is no difference between a "tap" and a "collision".

The "damage" portion of the rule was added in the 2001-2004 rules because so many of the monohullers were "rubbing"
each other in order to prove rules infractions.
But when 10 ton boats "rub" the damage can be expensive.
So the ISAF decided to stop the contact entirely.

The "injury" portion of the rule was added in the 2005-2008 R.R.S.

A point to ponder.
If the two boats were racing each other and contact was made with damage,
the burdened boat can do their circle(s) and finish the race, but the R.O.W, boat is DSQ!!!
Since you usually cannot drop this type of DSQ, the R.O.W. boat is out of the trophies.
So a burdened boat can "tap" a R.O.W. boat and win the regatta.
Remember that next time you decide to bring a boat up