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Raising a Tiger mast? #52561
07/07/05 10:03 AM
07/07/05 10:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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I just tried raising the mast on my H Tiger and failed.

Any suggestions on how to do it? How many people? Can you use a vehicle to pull it up once it is started?
I did a search on "raising the mast" and it turned up nothing useful.

I have no problem raising the mast on my 14'Hobie.


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52562
07/07/05 07:19 PM
07/07/05 07:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
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Ocean Springs, MS
kmboudreaux Offline
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You need to turn the mast sideways, and install the 1/4" bolt (I use a good quality Philips screwdriver cut to the correct length instead of the supplied bolt and nut, it's easier to put in and out once the mast is raised), then raise it like your H-14, but with 2 people, once the mast is standing, the 2nd person can hook up the front stay to the bridle.


Kenny Boudreaux
C2 F18
Goodall Designs/Southern Area Rep
www.sailboxes.com
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: kmboudreaux] #52563
07/09/05 06:26 AM
07/09/05 06:26 AM
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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Thanks Kenny.
I took your suggestion and brought along two friends and we were able to get it raised.

Another question, is it advisable to keep the mast restrained from rotating when not using the boat?


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52564
07/11/05 09:40 AM
07/11/05 09:40 AM
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Ocean Springs, MS
kmboudreaux Offline
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Not really sure, but personally, I would not pin it while it is idle. Wouldn't want to put any extra strain on the mast step hole than necessary.


Kenny Boudreaux
C2 F18
Goodall Designs/Southern Area Rep
www.sailboxes.com
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52565
07/19/05 08:39 AM
07/19/05 08:39 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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There are several methods for assistance raising the mast. Most people I know do actually grunt and push it up. However, I use a winch mounted on the mast support on my trailer. I attach the winch to the end of a trapeze wire. After I begin the hoist and get it raised to about my shoulders the helper starts winching. I can dead lift the mast but I have thrown my back out doing so previously.

Another option is to have the boat off the trailer and have an assistant grab one or two trapeze handles. Once you get the mast started, they stand at the front beam between the hulls and help provide lifting assistance by pulling on the trapeze wires. It's very important for them to remain centered with the boat because any side force they give will make the mast want to swing to the side. You can also lower the mast quite easily this way.


Jake Kohl
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Jake] #52566
07/19/05 02:21 PM
07/19/05 02:21 PM
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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Excellent info Jake. Appreciate and will use it.


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Jake] #52567
07/29/05 04:23 PM
07/29/05 04:23 PM
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South Florida & the Keys
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Jake,

Another way to go is to use the spinnaker halyard. Using the upper tang gives you much more leverage. I use it to raise the ARC 21 beast, I mean mast.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: arbo06] #52568
08/01/05 06:20 AM
08/01/05 06:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
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Cheshire, UK
Simon Offline
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I just raised my Spitfire mast singlehanded, using tips from this forum and friends. The Spitfire mast is quite light, but the principles are the same (I also have a Nacra 6.0 and would use the same method if necessary, since the issue is not abouth strength but about handling a long unsteady object around your delicate boat in a safe manner, and keeping an upright pole steady while you wander off to attend to the forestay - especially if you have a lot of mast rake as the Spitfire does). It was really easy:

First of all, despite what I said, you need to make a friend: Mine's called Billy. He's a tripod constructed from three wooden battens about 2 metres in length. Drill a hole 9 inches or so from one end of each leg, and cut one 'leg' down to within a an inch of this hole. Drill another hole roughly in the centre of each leg. (The tripod's not yours!). Pass a short piece of rope through the end holes and knot off both ends, leaving a little room for movement. Stand your tripod up and pass another piece of rope through the central holes and knot off the ends, to stop the legs from spreading any further. You've now got all the assistance you need, and it can be folded up and stored in your trailer box without taking much room or drinking any of your beer.

So now you arrive at the sailing venue, and you've got no mates (or your crew isn't arriving until the next day, in my case!). Out comes Billy Tripod, dutifully standing to one side of the rear beam ready to take the rearmost end of the mast after lifting it from your boat. This allows you to lift the front end of the mast from the trailer mast support, and put it on the ground gracefully. (I tried it without Billy one time a while back, and wow, what a mess I got into...).

Now you can get the boat off the trailer, ideally leaving it just behind the trailer. Remove the wheels, etc, if you are on a hull friendly surface, so that the hulls are stable and as low to the ground as possible.

Reposition the mast on the ground alongside the boat, so that the mast foot is in line with the front beam. Move the tripod so that it is directly behind the rear beam, in line with the ball on the front beam, and far enough back so that it is positioned between the mast tip and attachments i.e. about 18 inches or so from the tip. Place the top of the mast on the tripod. Make sure it IS free to slide back and forth (a little) i.e. not fouled by the main halyard etc.

Lift and place the mast foot onto the ball on the front beam. I was able to twist mine through 90 degress and secure it with the pin, thanks to the clearance Billy was giving me. Attach the shrounds and do all the other things you need to do... spinni halyard, etc, light the barbi, take the beer out of the coolbox in anticipation of future success, and so on until you are ready for the lift.

I left a trapeze line free and attached a length of rope to the handle. This was brought forward, passed round a strut on the trailer (still in front of the boat, and too heavy to be moved by a mast). Bring the rope back to the front beam, and this is the clever bit... through a cleat, such as the spinni tack or even the downhaul on the mast.

Keep loose hold of the rope and lift the mast from the rear beam (usual warnings here about cables overhead, electrical storms, low flying aircraft, passing flocks of geese, small children flying kites, and the potential for death or serious injury). Since Billy T is still doing his job at the mast tip, this lift should be relatively easy as the mast is already a good way above the beam, allowing you to "lift with your knees and not your back". Push the mast all the way up, and now use a spare hand to take up the slack in the rope. Now the mast is up and due to the friction of the rope round the trailer as well as a fitting on the boat, you'll find the effort required to hold the mast up with the rope alone is very small. Cleat it off and the mast will stay upright while you stand back and admire it, put the burgers on the barbi and open the beer.

Now all you need to do is attach the forestay, remove the pin, adjust the rig tension etc and finally remove the rope from the trapeze and trailer. Now for the burgers and the beer...

My mate attaches a line to the forestay and passes it through the bridle and back to the beam avoiding the need to involve the trailer - I prefered keeping things separate so that I could work with the forestay, safe in the knowledge the mast wasn't going anywhere while I did so.

Another method I saw at the same event left me speechless: One chap had two helpers and still needed more. He was holding has mast upright, obviously having done the lift. One friend was at the port end of the front beam, holding a trapeze line AND a shroud. You've got it, his other friend was holding the other trapeze line AND shroud at the starboard end of the beam. Man with mast in hand was trying to keep it upright while directing his mates forwards and backward to try to balance the whole thing. Lord knows what he was going to do next but it seemed as though he was intent on having his mates hold the mast aloft by the shrouds while he went forward to attach the forestay. I didn't know whether to be dumbstruck or awestruck at some technique with which I was unfamiliar, but at least my mate realised that the appropriate action was the former and immediately waded in with some helpful advice before someone or their car got hurt.

HTH
Simon


Simon
Shadow 067
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Simon] #52569
08/04/05 12:39 PM
08/04/05 12:39 PM
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2017 F18 Americas Site
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I use Jake's method of the winch. I have a nice stainless ring that is attached near the top of my mast support. The line from the winch goes through that before I attach it to the forestay (trap wire okay too). This way the line can pull as much up as possible. The boat is usually still tied to the trailer so it will not pull forward. By te way I also loosen one side of the shrouds so the rig will be easy to put all the pins in. My crew Eileen (125lbs) holds the top part of the mast while I set the base in. I do not use the pin or anything to keep the mast in. I crank on the winch until the mast is light in her hands when it is over her head, this keeps the mast in. Then when I get on the boat to guide the mast up I do not have too much weight to hold (it is preloaded) while she goes to the front and cranks the winch. I do not have to muscle the mast at all this way. When the mast is straight up there is nothing to much to hold. She then can take the winch line off and attach the bridle wire. We tighten the shroud after the mast is up.

The mast is not as heavy as a 20, the boat we had before, but I still use the same method...I like it.

Later,
Dan

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Dan_Delave] #52570
08/15/05 09:46 PM
08/15/05 09:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Ooooo...great point Dan. Boat MUST be secured firmly to the trailer if you are going to use a trailer mounted winch. I once forgot that while lowering and the boat lurched foward when the mast was nearly down. No damage resulted but it was scary!


Jake Kohl
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Simon] #52571
09/25/06 08:05 AM
09/25/06 08:05 AM
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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Great ideas.

Anybody ever try an electric winch to pull it up? Princess Auto here in Canada has a 1500 or 2000 lb one on sale for 65. CanD every once in a while. This one has a corded remote but you can also get them cordless.


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52572
09/25/06 02:39 PM
09/25/06 02:39 PM
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thats more than enough.

you'll still have to guide it up more than likely and getting it down may put a lot of wear on the electric winch clutch.

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52573
09/25/06 10:37 PM
09/25/06 10:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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Use a gin pole..I raised the mast of my Nacra 6.0 all the time by myself.. Check out these photos:
http://aquarius-sail.com/default/images/arc22/ginpole/index.htm

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: pitchpoledave] #52574
09/26/06 08:47 AM
09/26/06 08:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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Quote
Use a gin pole..I raised the mast of my Nacra 6.0 all the time by myself.. Check out these photos:
http://aquarius-sail.com/default/images/arc22/ginpole/index.htm


Wow that is the answer. What is the ratio on the pulleys?


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Jake] #52575
09/26/06 09:51 AM
09/26/06 09:51 AM
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Posts: 207
couldn't resist it
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How difficult does it have to be ????.

I sail a singlehander with spinnaker and its easy ,with boat on trolley -forward and stern supports, fit both shrouds on loosest setting each side
tie spinnaker head end of halyard to either forestay shackle/fitting, leave rigged as normal on mast .
put mast foot on ball - no pin (for poofs only) lift mast at rear beam as high as poss one handed, pull up slack on halyard through cleat , stop ,halyard will hold mast , steady with one hand to stop swing ,step up over rear beam , start lifting again and take up on halyard , move forward etc etc until mast fully up ,leave halyard cleated (loosely ) wander forward and fit bridle ,tension shrouds, works for me , helps to have carbon mast !

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52576
09/26/06 02:21 PM
09/26/06 02:21 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
Great ideas.

Anybody ever try an electric winch to pull it up? Princess Auto here in Canada has a 1500 or 2000 lb one on sale for 65. CanD every once in a while. This one has a corded remote but you can also get them cordless.


Take a close look at the speeds on that winch - they are very slow - you'll be standing there a while to haul up that mast.


Jake Kohl
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: pitchpoledave] #52577
09/26/06 02:27 PM
09/26/06 02:27 PM
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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Use a gin pole..I raised the mast of my Nacra 6.0 all the time by myself.. Check out these photos:
http://aquarius-sail.com/default/images/arc22/ginpole/index.htm


I just started trying the Gin Pole. I did not get a chance to raise it as I had to go to work, but I think the Tiger is maybe different than your boat because it is turned 90 degrees (sideways) when resting, so the gin pole is actually sitting on one side at the start of the raising. Seems to me it would slide off when the mast started to rotate as it came up. Will continue trying again when I get back tomorrow.

Am not confident of the strength of the balcony that the spi rope goes through and the wimpy little block it goes through at top.


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52578
09/27/06 06:42 PM
09/27/06 06:42 PM
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Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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My nacra 6.0 also needed the mast at 90' to raise. on the nacra there is a bolt through the mast and I drilled a hole in the end of the gin pole and fitted it over the bolt. Then to stop the mast rotating I cleated the mast rotator.
This will be different than your boat since you don't have the positive rotator system that the nacra 6.0 does, however I have also seen people use a U shaped piece of pipe on the end of the gin pole as well. You may still need to stop the mast from rotating..not sure..

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: pitchpoledave] #52579
09/28/06 06:22 PM
09/28/06 06:22 PM
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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A friend happened by to help raising the mast but I want to solve this for subsequent raising / lowering. I am working on using a combination of using the mast rotater affixed to something, and the placement of the ginpole as you did on the bolt for the mast rotater. Maybe weld the ginpole to a platform, face it with rubber and put it over the mast rotater...

If this is a no go then I will use a double ginpole going out to each end of the Xbar.

Last edited by Frozen; 09/28/06 06:23 PM.

Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: pitchpoledave] #52580
10/04/06 12:18 PM
10/04/06 12:18 PM
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Is 1 3/16" EMT strong enough for the ginpole?


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52581
10/05/06 07:48 AM
10/05/06 07:48 AM
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Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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I used 1" wood dowel..no problems..

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Frozen] #52582
10/05/06 10:41 AM
10/05/06 10:41 AM
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CA
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I used a 1 1/4" AL spin pole from West Marine for my heavier Hobie SX-18 mast (with compost tip) when I had one. No problems, except for the time it takes.

The good news is that the highest load is at the very bottom of the hoist, so if it's fails, it will probably do so before the mast is lifted.

Gratuitous graphic:

[Linked Image]

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Glenn_Brown] #52583
10/08/06 05:48 PM
10/08/06 05:48 PM
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South Florida & the Keys
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alright guys, all this talk about eZ steppers got me motivated to build one this morning. Check it out.

I haven't taken it all of the way up yet because I was alone.

One question, should I leave any slack in the side to side stabilizers? Will they tighten or loosen as the mast goes up?

Attached Files
87363-EZstepper004.jpg (448 downloads)
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: arbo06] #52584
10/08/06 05:50 PM
10/08/06 05:50 PM
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South Florida & the Keys
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another

Attached Files
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Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: arbo06] #52585
10/08/06 05:51 PM
10/08/06 05:51 PM
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again

Attached Files
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Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: arbo06] #52586
10/08/06 05:54 PM
10/08/06 05:54 PM
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1 more with the rear support. 2x4's with a galvanized bolt. I put washers between the boards.

Attached Files
87366-EZstepper001.jpg (380 downloads)
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Glenn_Brown] #52587
10/15/06 12:11 PM
10/15/06 12:11 PM
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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I lowered the mast with the ginpole. Worked great. I used the spi halyard as a safety,
main halyard attached to the ginpole,
winch to do the work,
strapped the rear crossbar to the slipway,
and just for backup I used my main sheet and blocks attached between the bow shroud and front bridle in case the winch didn't work.
I used the trap wires for anti-sway but it wasn't necessary as there was no wind.
I attached them and the gin pole side stays to the crossbar by sticking a pole into the crossbar.
It was so easy, that I raised it up again. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Not sure the trap wires were necessary as they were very slack as the mast went down and swaying wasn't an issue.
Also found that by using the main halyard (tied to the ginpole) this kept the mast sideways because it is attached to the rear of the mast and naturally pulled it sideways. Although I did have the mast follower attached to the ginpole via a piece of angle iron. This I think was overkill.

Thanks everyone.


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: arbo06] #52588
10/23/06 09:32 AM
10/23/06 09:32 AM
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Quote
alright guys, all this talk about eZ steppers got me motivated to build one this morning. Check it out.

I haven't taken it all of the way up yet because I was alone.

One question, should I leave any slack in the side to side stabilizers? Will they tighten or loosen as the mast goes up?


As long as the stabilizers are in a straight line through the pivot point of the base of the mast (i.e. all on the main beam), you should make them tight and shouldn't expect them to get any tighter as the mast goes up. I'm having difficulty comprehending how the trapeze lines are working in your pictures...they look like they attach to the lines that are supporting the gin pole - that could be a geometry problem if they are not attached directly to the main beam.


Jake Kohl
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Jake] #52589
10/23/06 09:34 AM
10/23/06 09:34 AM
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South Carolina
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Oh...I see it here

http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/87473-EZstepper002.jpg

Yeah, that's a problem. With the mast down, the trap lines should still firmly stabilize it to keep it from swinging side to side. It looks like your mast can swing a bit and could make a pretty dramatic swoop to one side once it comes off the fork. You should find a way to attach the trap lines in a straight line and tight to the main beam somewhere - further outboard is better but not absolutely necessary.


Jake Kohl
Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: Jake] #52590
10/23/06 06:18 PM
10/23/06 06:18 PM
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South Florida & the Keys
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Jake,

right you are... the stabilizer goes around the hull in front of the beam. That is as far outboard as I can get it. I tied a stainless ring into the line right at the beam and them tied a caribeaner on the end. I loop the line around the hull and attach it back to itself and then clip the trap into the beaner. The mast will sway about 2 feet, thats it. Too easy!

Re: Raising a Tiger mast? [Re: arbo06] #52591
10/23/06 06:29 PM
10/23/06 06:29 PM
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
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Quote
One question, should I leave any slack in the side to side stabilizers? Will they tighten or loosen as the mast goes up?


Before I lowered the mast I fixed the trap lines to the front xbar. They were very tight when I started lowering the mast, but I noticed that by the time the mast was down they were very slack. As I mentioned there wasn't any wind to speak of. I can only assume that if they had been tight before raising the mast that they would have possibly damaged something as they got tighter during the raise. Even though the xbar is close to the place where it would be 90 degrees to the mast, it is lower than the point of rotation. (mast base ball)
It's hard to explain this except to say that if the mast is raised and you drew a line 90 degrees (to the mast) (in other words horizontal) out from the centre of rotation of the mast ball, the xbar is actually below that.
Therefore the traps will tighten up when raising and slack off when lowering.

For some reason I did not notice this happening with the ginpole stabilizers. Not sure why, maybe the rope was stretchier than the mostly cable trap wires. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
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