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aft beam mainsheet traveller #54181
08/01/05 03:47 PM
08/01/05 03:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
utahsailor Offline OP
journeyman
utahsailor  Offline OP
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Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
Went out sailing yesterday, and some fellow sailors with catamaran experience helped me rig the mainsheet correctly for the first time!

The downside is, the mainsheet traveller on the aft beam (not the one on the mainsheet) got stuck on the track. The sail ended up pulling the traveller off the track(!!!) and I had to attach the mainsheet rigging lines to the center of the beam for the rest of the jaunt.

What could cause this? I noticed 2 things:
1) the traveller track has a few dents in it. Nothing very major - not enough to derail the car.
2) the traveller car didn't seem to have nearly enough ball bearings. It could be I lost some of them when the car came loose.

The car looks to be intact. Should I just get some new ball bearings and smooth out the track with some steel wool and WD-40, then re-attach the car?

-Aaron

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54182
08/01/05 04:10 PM
08/01/05 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 223
Western New York
wyatt Offline
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wyatt  Offline
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Western New York
Aaron:

We need to know the type of boat you sail. Someone out here will know the boat by heart and can advise on the proper repair. If it's a Hobie, you can even go to the Hobie website.

Wyatt

Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54183
08/01/05 04:12 PM
08/01/05 04:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 241
Simi Valley, CA
jfint Offline
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jfint  Offline
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Posts: 241
Simi Valley, CA
Did the car come off the end of the track or did it blow off in the middle somewhere? What kind of traveler is it? One of the newer harken travelers using torlon bearings? It sounds like it came off the middle of the track just straight up?

Sorry not alot of answers in that post, in fact on its own it looks like its a worthless piece of writting, but I'm trying to picture in my head what happened.



Josh Fint Prindle 19 "Accident Prone" Moro Bay Sailing
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: jfint] #54184
08/01/05 04:23 PM
08/01/05 04:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
utahsailor Offline OP
journeyman
utahsailor  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
I sail a 1989 Nacra 5.5 uni.

The car came off in the middle of the track. Here is what happened, to be more specific:

1) A fellow sailor rigged the traveller car with a line that was a bit too thick.
2) The car snagged a rough spot on the track (possibly was angled in a funny way by the excessively thick line), and was pulled upward by the mainsheet.
3) I removed the mainsheet from the car, and pulled the car off the track.

My suspicion is that the car did not have enough ball bearings on the side that snagged.

Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54185
08/01/05 04:50 PM
08/01/05 04:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 241
Simi Valley, CA
jfint Offline
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jfint  Offline
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Simi Valley, CA
I think your suspicion is probably right on the money, I think you would notice some obvious large damage to eigther the car or the track if it had all the bearings, those things can really take alot of load. I think the bearings are resonalby priced, If Catsailor doesn't have them Murray's does, spend the extra 3 or 4 bucks or whatever it is on a bearing loader, its a nifty little plastic job that makes life alot easier.


Josh Fint Prindle 19 "Accident Prone" Moro Bay Sailing
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: jfint] #54186
08/01/05 04:54 PM
08/01/05 04:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
utahsailor Offline OP
journeyman
utahsailor  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
Those bearings are actually sort of expensive... and the loader is $12.50!

Oh well. Anything for my baby.

Thanks for the moral support!

Aaron

Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54187
08/01/05 05:18 PM
08/01/05 05:18 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Those small balls are outrageously priced in my opinion! I have had the traveller blast trough the end fitting, loosing the balls in the ocean twice now. No more flimsy plastic or alu end fittings for us now, stainless steel bolts should do the trick.

You can make the 'loader' yourself if you can find a piece of identical traveller track. Just cut it so:

-------------------\
___________________\

Make the angle even more pronounced, and you can easily 'reload' your traveller car and run it over to your boats track when finished. Take care not to fill the car full, the balls need some room to circulate.
Sometimes the balls desintegrate, and you need to replace them. Sounds like you passed the critical number, and the remaining balls could not take the load. I dont think the diameter of the traveller-line have anything to do with it, the traveller car should be able to take the loads anyway.

Tieing the mainsheet to the aft-beam is a desperate move (but your only move when this happens, unless you have a spare car mounted on the track already. Like the Worrel guys did), after all, the traveller is your emergency brake when things start to go wrong so it's very nice if it's operational.

Wonder why those Torlon/Delring balls are so expensive. Are the materials so rare?

Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54188
08/01/05 05:19 PM
08/01/05 05:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 69
San Francisco
TSurfer Offline
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TSurfer  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 69
San Francisco
Hi Aaron

I posted a related topic a while ago that might help you out.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...amp;Main=38282&Search=true#Post38319

I ended up washing, sanding, Mclubing and replacing the bearings which worked out fine.

Hope it helps,


Tim S. Urfer 1984 Nacra 5.2
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: TSurfer] #54189
08/01/05 05:24 PM
08/01/05 05:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
Those small balls are outrageously priced in my opinion! I have had the traveller blast trough the end fitting, loosing the balls in the ocean twice now. No more flimsy plastic or alu end fittings for us now, stainless steel bolts should do the trick.


In the past I have just placed a knot in the traveller so the car cannot hit the end stop !


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: scooby_simon] #54190
08/01/05 05:33 PM
08/01/05 05:33 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Yes Simon, we did have a figure 8 with a overhand knot on top, but it was dragged straight trough the traveller. Needless to say that this knot is significantly larger now..
The amazing thing about our two incidents was that it was not heavy weather, and the jibes was not violent at all. Once the traveller stop broke and the knot was sucked trough, the second time one of the bolts for the mainsheet that goes trough the car broke and the whole thing was wrenched off. All the other T guys was properly impressed each time, as this sort of things always happen during regattas of course (the olympic guys had not seen either thing happen before)..

Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: scooby_simon] #54191
08/01/05 05:40 PM
08/01/05 05:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
utahsailor Offline OP
journeyman
utahsailor  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 95
Salt Lake City, UT
Rolf and Tim - thanks! I was actually about to ask where I could get those bearings cheaper. Thank god I don't think I need a new car... that's like $60 right there!

Simon - the stops at the end of the traveller are intact, and I had run a line to prevent the car from reaching either end. Can your cat use a stainless steel car? I really wish mine could... the Harken car is a bit chinsy. Does anyone know if that's an option for the Nacra?

-Aaron

Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54192
08/01/05 06:05 PM
08/01/05 06:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Aaron,

It sounds like your car was missing a few bearings; I have been told of instances where the Cars have come off; but only when they were put back on incorrectly (ie with missing bearings.

Sorry, my boat uses a Harken one only IIRC


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54193
08/01/05 06:37 PM
08/01/05 06:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Aaron,

The bearings are 1/4" torlon bearings and can be purchased considerably cheaper at http://www.mcmaster.com - their service is awesome too. Part number is 9593K17 - I just replaced all the bearings in my traveler and have enough to replace one side of the traveler a second time for $30 (two packs of 50). Check the harken website to see how many bearings should be in the car - sounds like you may have been missing a few to begin with.

The older style Harken traveler cars do not keep the bearings captive when off the track so the special tool is pretty useful. However, (don't laugh - it worked!) I replaced the bearings in the same car on my 5.2 using K-Y jelly to keep the bearings in place while the travler was put on the track. Once installed, you can just wash the jelly away with water since the KY is water soluable.

You want to be carefull not to use a lubricant that is greasy or oily (like WD-40) because these tend to attract dust and sand over time and can cause more wear than they prevent. For long term lubrication, be sure to use a dry (silicone) lubricant or sail kote.


Jake Kohl
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: Jake] #54194
08/02/05 01:07 AM
08/02/05 01:07 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Jake,
Thanks for the KY tip--I just went through the nerve-racking process removing and cleaning my traveler and bearings. Boy, those bearings are hard to find in a field of tall weeds...


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54195
08/02/05 07:45 AM
08/02/05 07:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
C
Commodore_CCC Offline
member
Commodore_CCC  Offline
member
C

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
You can replace the bearings, but you'd be happier in the long term to replace the car. Be sure to recondition the track. And spend the $12 for the loader. You keep it permanently, and that's not much money for the ease of use that the loader provides.

You might as well learn right now that a boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money.

Second Jake's suggestion re: McMaster-Carr for Torlon bearings, and they also have stainless parts and other plastics for other marine applications. What a kewl place McMaster is...


Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: Commodore_CCC] #54196
08/02/05 07:47 AM
08/02/05 07:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
C
Commodore_CCC Offline
member
Commodore_CCC  Offline
member
C

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 117
And no, the Harken car is the only option unless you run a different track, and it's really not chintzy, especially the new ones, esp. if cared for

Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: Commodore_CCC] #54197
08/02/05 07:59 AM
08/02/05 07:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
bullswan Offline
Pooh-Bah
bullswan  Offline
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Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
Stupid question probably, but I am on a mission to replace everything on this 1991 Nacra 5.5sl that I am worrying about it's age and longevity. I've replaced all mission-critical stuff like shrouds and stays and lines but now you have me thinking about this. How do you know when to replace the bearings or is it just an "ounce of prevention" item? Do you replace them regularly? I am sailing this exclusively in fresh water and so I assume my requirements for replacing would be different that yours?

Thanks
Greg


The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: utahsailor] #54198
08/02/05 08:02 AM
08/02/05 08:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
enthusiast
sparky  Offline
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Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
I think Performance went to the next size up traveller car for the N5.5U by 1993. You might check with Nacra to see if you have the larger traveller car. If you don't have it, I recommend you bite the bullet and get the larger car. It makes the traveller much smoother and handles the load better, allowing it to move easily under load. I upgraded my 1988 5.5 Uni the first time I had problems getting the traveller to move easily. Also, I used a little Joy detergent in a spray bottle of water to lubricate the traveller each time I put the boat together. It sure helped make the traveller reliable and free-moving.


Les Gallagher
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: sparky] #54199
08/02/05 08:57 AM
08/02/05 08:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
bullswan Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 2,074
Northfield,NH USA
Thanks Les.
How do I determine what car I currently have? Is there a way of identifying either the pre-1993 or post-1993 car? Larger, okay, but relative to what?

My car seems to work fine at the moment. Should I wait till I have the problem you experienced or just "bite the bullet"?

Finally, Does the Joy work better than McLube in your opinion?

Thanks. I welcome your opinions.
Greg



The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised. - George Will
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
Re: aft beam mainsheet traveller [Re: bullswan] #54200
08/02/05 09:20 AM
08/02/05 09:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
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Michigan, USA
Greg,

When I switched, the new traveller car was wider (longer?)and carried more balls, but still ran on the same track. You might check with a local Nacra dealer or even directly with Performance Catamarans. You might contact Harken and give them the dimensions of your current track and car and ask them what is available for your track. I think their products have evolved since 1989, but Performance still uses the same track.

You can continue to use your current traveller car, but I think you will replace the balls more often to have it work well, and I don't think it will ever work as well as the larger traveller car.

I never used McLube on my traveller, so I cannot compare it to the water with a little Joy in it. The Joy is cheaper though.

There is one more factor in the smooth operation of your traveller, and that is the line with which you control traveller position. It needs to run smoothly through the roller fairlead on the traveller car. We usually had a separate, smaller diameter line for this and would tie the end of it to the end of the mainsheet. We positioned this knot so that when the traveller was all the way out, the knot would prevent the traveller from hitting the end stop. It saves wear and tear and helps to prevent what happened to Rolf (tearing off the traveller stop).


Les Gallagher
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