Hello to all, I just purchased a used Prindle 18 cat which has parts missing (both shrouds, forestay and various hardware). I'm retired (now), not rich and I would very much like to see THIS BOAT make it to the water (unlike my last one that only saw dry land before I gave the title to the Harbor Master). I believe that I've figured out most of the fittings (hardware), but I'm getting ready to purchase the wire rope for the shroud and forestay and swage them myself. This is where I need help. Size of wire rope? (5/32" 1x19 SS is what I'm seeing for the aftermarket...is that a mandatory minimum for working load and breaking strength?). Okay, that's a start...I'd appreciate any help at this point...week one.

5/32 is the right size but not wire rope. I not sure of the strand count but wire rope is more flexible and not used for shrouds or head stays.

Where about FLA. are you?

Thanks for the info Mike. I'm in Melbourne. I've been here for just over three weeks (newly arrived from Arizona). I was just looking (again) at the "catsailor.com" site and the aftermarket shroud lines are 1x19 and 5/32". Since, for the moment, I'm wanting more to get the boat on the Indian River (to go to the little islands) and don't want to spend too much initially (before I get a job), I'm looking into galvanized 3/16" 7x19 and to have it swagged at the local hardware store. That's about a 65% savings (although I know that the longevity for this wire is about 2 seasons...from what I've been told)...I can do this as I would expect to continue to upgrade as I can afford. I'm most concerned with safety and the maximum working/breaking loads of the galvanized (3/16" 7x19) in comparision with the Prindle's specifications (which I'm unable to locate). I don't plan on racing, but just want to "put around"...weather permitting. Any comments...anyone?

I don't think that's a good idea. Try West marine. I think they have the right stuff. I would not use small galv. Very scary. The adage if you can't do it right don't do applies here. Trust me.

Do some looking around for a small sailing shop etc. We have a guy like that here that makes all of our groups wires. Very resonable and high quality. Stu at Ellies sailing shop. 727-442-3281. If anyone comes to the area to sail and needs anything it's a good PH# to have. Maybe someone over there will chime in with some advice.

Be safe.

5/32 1 X 19 stainless steel is the correct cable for your boat. Sometimes the terms cable and wire rope are used interchangably, though technically 1 X 19 is not considered flexible and therefore is a cable rather than a wire rope.

I would strongly advise you to make sure you are getting Cable made in the US or EU. Product made in China can vary in quality. They sometimes let off-spec product pass through inspection to meet production quotas. Not that they are any less scrupulus than domestic suppliers, it's just that with a domestic supplier you have tracability and accountability. On top of that, they ARE less scrupulus than domestic suppliers. China's business culture is where we were during the 'robber baron' period about 120 years ago. It will get better for sure, but now's not the time to trust such a critical item to such a culture.

IMO

Jimbo

Check the industrial supply houses for the cable. You can get coated stainless at either MSC or McMaster-Carr. They both take credit cards online and you will have it the next day (usually). You will have to swage it yourself or find someone to swage it for you.

I'd honestly buy from a reputable rigger. Someone that knows what they are doing and can hydraulically swage their fittings.

A cat goes under some pretty intense loads, and I wouldn't want to trust the local wal-mart brand strand to keep my stick up.

Have you checked with your nearest authorized Prindle dealer (available through performancecat.com)? I was pleasantly surprised to find out how cheap it was to replace my shrouds last year w/ factory stuff--and got exactly the right length, right size, etc. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish here! Cat rigs DO get under unexpected strain sometimes, whether planned or not! Old Joe at the hardware store isn't the right place for this one...

Kevin
Prindle 18

Thank you all for the input/replies. Okay, I'm going to do some more research and I'll keep looking for the proper equipment. I do want to have the cat in the water next weekend (nice sunrise sail)..oh, but I have no jib sail - yet (and yes, I'm going to do it anyway). I don't want the "fizzle" to "sizzle out"...so I need this on the water soon.

Another option is if you can get somebody to give you their old (been replaced) cables from a bigger boat. The cables almost always break/wear at the swages. You can swage it shorter using the center part of the cable from something like a 6.0 or 20.

I got new shrouds and forestay from Murrays and they came the next day. Perfect swages. All the right lengths. Nice, nice people. I didn't think they were expensive at all (even with the next day shipping charge) and I feel comfortable knowing they are NEW. Don't scrimp is my advice. Like buying brakes or tires.

Thank you all (catman, Jimbo, hobienick, MauganH17, payamon2, Jamie Diamond and bullswan) for your insights and expertise. I really want to get this cat into the water before I have to start my job hunt (next month)...and eventually join one of the cat clubs around the area. We'll see what happens. Okay, off to prep for a wedding tomorrow.

Why do I get the feeling that this guy is going to ignore all our advice and use clothesline wire anyway?

Kevin
Prindle 18

hahahahah, good one papayamon2 (kevin)...were you watching me at ACE Hardware? Okay, I'm going to put back the 7/32" poly-cotton clothes line/mainsheet line...again, I see a WLL of 45lbs on it and I'm sure it would do fine through those blocks (50ft. @ $4.00). Actually, I'm waiting until I either hear from someone...maybe I should ask (HELLO, does anyone living close to Melbourne, FL have 5/32" 1x19 cable for shroud and forestay lines? I don't know exact shroud lenths, but my measurements put it at 21' 8", then a turnbuckle, then the shroud adjuster, attached to a twisted pin, attached to a deck pin. The forestay, without a pigtail is ABOUT 18', then turnbuckle attached to bridle wires). I bought the turnbuckles, shroud adjusters, pins, rings and shackles already. If not, I'm ordering from West Marine and going to swage them myself. I have one Ben Franklin left for this boat (for the shrouds and forestay - thimbles, ferrules and stoppers), and I'm sure you'll all cry about me for this, but in a month I have to go back to work (boo hoo) and the boat will have to sit until I get resettled. This is my chance, please help!!

If you are a super cheapskate, you CAN make your own perfectly safe shrouds. You will need an intact set of old shrouds, a long flat work surface and a swaging tool. An asphalt street or parking lot will work, or you could drive two stakes into the ground at the shroud length.

There are two types of tool. One looks like a pair of bolt cutters, and one looks a bit like a tubing flare tool. You can see both here:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/swagingtool.php

The bolt cutter style is much faster and less cumbersome in use, but both deliver high-quality swages. There is a bit of a price difference to consider

The chinese made bolt cutter style tool that recently showed up at the home centers for $30 would work fine if they had seen fit to include the 5/32" size, which they did not.

Now drive a big nail, like a 16d or 20d deep into the asphalt or wood stake #1 and place one end of the shroud over the nail. Then stretch out the shroud as tight as you can by hand and place a nail through the other thimble and drive it deep into the asphalt or stake #2. Make sure it stays nice and taught! Now you have a pattern of the accurate shroud length.

Now take the end of your piece of quality US or EU made 1 X 19 SS 5/32" cable and nickel plated copper Nicopress oval (Size P, IIRC) and SS thimble and make and swage one loop. You will probably suck at making/swaging loops with thimbles, so buy extra cable, thimbles and ovals to practice a couple of times. You can get the first one wrong and it's no big deal; just cut it off and start over. But If you get the SECOND one wrong, you must scrap the cable

After you have a good tight loop properly swaged around a thimble, stretch the cable around the other nail and cut it off about a foot longer than needed. Now thread the cable throught the second oval and place the thimble in the loop and the the loop over the second nail. Pull all of the slack out until it is nice and taught and lying right on top of the old shroud. While maintaining tension, swage the second oval. This won't be real easy since 1 X 19 is not docile stuff; you will probably need help. You can make the cables for about $25 a piece like this, but it's not easy work and the price doubles if you screw one up

Inspect all swages for quality before using the shroud! You must mave the heart to reject a bad cable! I recommend you use a sealer like Lifecaulk or 3M 5200 on all parts of the cable that won't see air, like inside the ovals and thimbles. This will prolong the life of the cable by preventing corrosion and hydrogen embrittlement. This will make the process really messy for a beginner but I don't care since it's not my hands

Jimbo

One more important tip: After swaging each loop, you must cut off the excess cable protruding from the end of the Nicopress oval. You will want to cut it off as close to the oval as possible. The best way to get this done is with a hacksaw with a very fine tooth blade while the oval is held fast in a bench vise. Be EXTREMELY careful to avoid nicking any strands on the the good side of the cable as you cut off the excess!! A nicked cable is [color:"red"] JUNK [/color] and must be scrapped!

Jimbo

For all other cheapskates considering this route, you cannot go wrong buying the supplies from the fine people at Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. They have everything you need, very low prices, outstanding customer service and everything is certified and tracable. You will even get a certificate of conformance!

The cable:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/controlcable.php

The cable hardware:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/cableassy.html

Jimbo

Jimbo, thanks for the detailed instructions on the remanufacturing/reverse engineering of the cables. I've already received my order from AircraftSpruce (thanks) and I'm waiting on another order to arrive. I've been having a great time going over this cat and replacing parts. I certainly couldn't have gotten this far without all the help from the forum members.