I have raced a H16 for the last 6 years with my 12 year old son. Now, my 9 year old wants his turn! I can't decide between a used Hobie Wave or H14 for the 12 year old. Owner of the Wave states that there is a small crack above the rudder gudgeon, but that no water leaks while sailing. Can this be repaired? Hobie 14 is ~20 years old. Obviously, each boat has its advantages/disadvantages. I am curious for opinions on which boat would be better for my son. I am assuming that this is a stepping stone to a larger boat around the age of 16 (either a 16, or tiger).
Thanks, Scott D.
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Re: Hobie Wave or Hobie 14?
[Re: CatRacr]
#60020 10/31/0511:54 AM10/31/0511:54 AM
The small crack, in the Wave, above the gudgeon is not repairable. The material is cross-linked polyethylene. It is not weldable. There is a thickish inner layer of foamy polyethylene that would keep it from leaking and you might be able to add a back up plate inside the transom.
Wave or 14? The 14 would be a good trainer, but the Wave is easier to sail. Not much racing available in either. If it is a time on the water sort of thing and his skills are not quite there... Wave. If he is competent I think the 14 might be a good choice.
I've read (and done so) that repairs to RV storage tanks (polyethylene) can be made with fiberglass and epoxy resin with adequate preparation. I've had good results with that (and having saved myself from actually removing and/or messing with the interior of the tank is a VERY good thing!). Perhaps it will be adequate for repairing leaks and such and not for something that receives repeated stress?
I bought my 10 year old daughter a H14 this year. I hope she will be able to start sailing it next summer. Another dad in our fleet also bought a H14 at the same time and his 11-12yr old son had no trouble sailing it. Your son will be a teenager next summer and will want to go fast. The 14 can offer that with trapping.(attachment). We have 13-14yr old kids sailing H16's single handed in our fleet. If he can learn to sail and tack the 14 he will be able to sail about anything in the future.
You're fortunate that you're only a couple of hours away from Dan Berger in VA Beach and a whole bunch of 14's. There's some racing to be had there. Hobie Fleet 32
Dan's the man when it comes to 14 parts (or used parts in general, for that matter).
I've talked to him about some boats. I like the Waves, they are fun, but there aren't any others around to race against. We have 9 14s on the beach ready to go at any time and we go out during the week all summer.
I have several 14s that I would sell, but I am trying to keep them in the area so we can build a 14 fleet. The great thing is that the biggest fleet at most of the local races this year was the 14 fleet!!
The only 'problem' with getting the kids on 14s is that they are like a hundred pounds lighter than we are and would smoke us just on weight!!
The 14 would be a good trainer, but the Wave is easier to sail. Not much racing available in either.
Matt, What in the world are you talking about? The Waves now are going into their 8th Nationals, just finished their 7th NA in Pensacola, have now developed an East Coast, North Coast, South Coast and West Coast Championship, have a National Championship Series, held a World Championship and plan on doing the same next Fall (only we are not able to call it a Worlds, for some crazy reason) and at all major regattas have trophies for Open, Women, Masters and Youth.
If that is not much racing, I am aghast. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> The Wave Class has been the most active at all regattas in Florida for several years now. Definitely the largest Hobie Class of any.
The Waves also have an active website and Forum for discussions.
The beauty of the Wave is it is now the only pure one-design class in the USA -- all the boats are the same speed and there is nothing you can do to make yours faster than your buddy's. Fat folks, young folks, old folks, skinny folks.., makes no difference. You win by doing the basics.., good starts, good tacks, watch for wind shifts, good mark roundings, good tactics and finishing at the favored end of the line. At the NAs in Pensacola there were at least 6 different sailors that took a bullet, me at 68 and 220 lbs Zach Grant at 13 and 80 lbs Mary Wells at 63 and 115 Charlie Trinque at 24 and 180 Stan Woodruff at 70 and 180
This is such a great racing class that I am selling all my high-tech, F-this and that class boats and sticking with the Wave.., never had so much fun sailing in my life.
Certainly agree that the Wave is a blast to sail. Simple is a good thing. What we need though is more entry level sailing / racing on the Wave.
The national events are one thing, but regional or local is where it will be at for a junior. Division 2 has been offering free racing for Waves over the last couple of years. Complete with trophies. I would love to see more focus there than getting the top guys and old timers on them just to mess around, but... more racing of any kind is a good thing, don't get me wrong.
This is a class for youth, young sailors, middle-aged sailors, older sailors, fat sailors, thin sailors, et al. How in the world can you and Hobie Cat not see how good this is for the cat sailing community? And we are doing it on our own. Sure would be nice if Hobie helped promote the class, rather than have a rep get on the Forum and knock it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
We have not found a good repair material for the Cross-Linked polyethylene, that is the skin of the Wave. Next to nothing will stick to it. This is a quite different material than the standard linear polyethylene.
We need partisipation from a wider variety of regions. That takes grass roots sailing and racing. As I mentioned, Division 2 and some of the Hobie Class events are trying to promote more entry level racing by having Waves included and I encourage that whole heartedly.
I certainly was not "knocking" Hobie Wave racing Rick. I am surprised you read it that way. You have done a great job creating some events back there. I would just love to see more entry level, as was the boats original intent.
As I said before... more racing of any kind is a GOOD thing! Old guys and gals on Hobie Waves included! I count myself in that group by the way.
I did. It is awesome stuff. Trouble is you'll spend about $400 for the application "gun" and minumum quantity of adhesive. Vanguard is using it, as well as other builders. I had the "opportunity" to make some repairs at the gudgeons of a 2001 boat, this stuff makes 5200 seem like play-do.
Matt, Entry level is also exactly what we are doing. In the September Issue (in the mail) of the magazine, there is a story (p.20) entitled, "How to Build a Fleet" Please take a look at it.., this is working. And this IS entry level. From young girls to overweight old ladies, from young building contractors to commodores, we got them out and sailing and they are all wanting to buy Waves to join the fleet next year. Unfortunately, we have no idea where the nearest dealer to Put-in-Bay might be -- perhaps near Ann Arbor, MI or there is one in Ontario. It would be great if we could get some fleet building help from Hobie Cat, but I won't hold my breath.
At any rate we expect our fleet to double next year. The first group of sailors were indeed seasoned cat sailors, but all the new sailors have never sailed a cat before.
We are starting the same project here in Key Largo with six boats for starters (again all cat sailors) but are going to use the same formula to get others into it.
In our series in PIB we got in 55 races and involving over 30 people.
At Sandy Hook the fleet started with a handfull.., mostly the Villa and Kulkoski group. Now they have a strong fleet of Waves. Most of them were novices at best when starting out. That is entry level.
No reason the same could not be done in Div. 2 and then we could have a Southwest Coast Championship.
Back to your original statement that there is not much racing going on in either class, I think you need to retract it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Both the 14 and the Wave are good boats. I have raced both. For a beginner I would prefer the Wave. It is a much better trainer than the 14, it was made as a trainer and has a lot fewer bad habits. For example it is almost impossible to pitchpole as long as you can hang on to the rudder and stay at the back of the boat. Your son will start looking forward to 20+ winds. When other boats are traveled past the footstraps, if they go out at all. As your son grows, both boats can be modified to F14 or super Wave form. If you want to add a jib to a Wave, you will need a pole. The stock system actually makes the boat go slower, it's just too close to the main. Adding even a small jib on a pole radically changes the performance of the boat. Adding a hooter is like turbo charging. Also you will want a good main, talk to Rick White.
A lot depends on your local area. In my area the 14 is dead. There are Waves but they are usually not interested in racing. I can sometimes get a fleet at Houston Yacht Club with kids racing their parents boats. Keep in mind, both of these boats in stock form are really slow by Cat standards. They can raced against Portsmouth Dinghies. The 14 and Wave are about the same speed as the dinghies until the wind get to 18-20, then you eat the dinghies alive. You can learn a lot starting with the Olympic Wannabes.
We purchased a Wave to teach our son to sail. My wife is talking about selling it now. She might actually do it, if the boat were going to a child.
The crack can be repaired so bear with me. There are only a few glues that will stick to the plastic. Epoxy is kind of a mechanical bond, wedging into the cracks. All glues that stick include a "prep" that raises the energy state of the plastic so it will bond. I would not recommend them to make any major repair. All of that I have seen, break down under UV.
The best way to repair the Wave is via brazing or welding. No one want to recommend this for boats because it's new and there are no standards. A good technician can make a permanent repair with a soldering iron and a chunk of old boat. I use a kit and a lot of care. If you don't want to do it yourself, check with a Kayak shop or find out where the local body shops send cars for this. The supplier is http://www.urethanesupply.com/. I use their uni welder lite. Their system is somewhere between brazing and hot glue. Industrial high temp hot glue guns work too but they are a lot more expensive. Check with 3M to find out what works and then start watching ebay if you really want one.
I think Matt is out of line with his comments. The Wave is probably second to the Tiger as the most active Hobie.
Perhaps it will be adequate for repairing leaks and such and not for something that receives repeated stress? 
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