Instead of running the jib sheets down the tramp.... Suck them into the front beam on bungies like you do for the downhaul. Cleans up the tramp a lot and puts the sheet where you want it..... At the crews feet on trap. If you want to see the best set up, just look at the Tornado boys. Any system on the spinaker conversion chances are they have tried all options and perfected it.

See attached the yellow sheet sucking into the front beam. This particular boat has the sheet go back inside the beam for a trick inturnal purchase set up.

I actually done that first but found quickly enough that that was not the way I want it on the Taipan F16. There are a few reasons for this.

-1- I hardly adjust the selftacking jib when going upwind. I found it to be far more efficient to have the crew work the mainsheet continiously while the skipper just steers and trims the maintraveller when needed. You must be aware thatr on a Taipan you can only go as far forward as the mainbeam when you are on a upwind leg !

-2- On a reach, where you do want to adjust the jib regulary, you can not go near the mainbeam when trapezing. The boat will go bow down and the skipper has to dump the main, thus slowing down the boat, in order to have the crew grap the jib sheet there. Also I found it even more advantagious on a reach to have the crew work the main then have the crew adjust the jib. More often then not the crew is doing the main while the skipper is doing the jib.

-3- Under spinnaker, the crew has his hands full on the spinnaker and can't really spare a hand for the jib. The skipper however has a hand free but is way behind the mainbeam, he can't reach that far.

-4- With the mainbeam setup if is difficult to have a continious jib sheet line, while in my setup you can have a continious jib sheet line. This means that no matter how often I tighten the jib on one tack and release it on the other I will never run out of sheet.


I'm finding that things that work on the tornado's, like this mainbeam jib sheet setup and the spinnaker halyard cleat on the mast are not always working as well on the F16's. I put this down to the fact that the Tornado has :

- longer hulls = more fore-aft stability
- larger jib in relation the the mainsail. = F16 jibs are less important in the bigger picture
- is always sailed doublehanded (try to operate that mast based spi halyard cleat when singlehanding !)
- Role seperation is different with most racing tornado crews (skipper is far more reserved for tactical role) and alot of tornado sailors (and F18 sailor) just copy the setup that the current champion has.

The setup that I have drawn, and that was tested after the mainbeam beam setup, has the advantages that it is very easy for the skipper to grap the jib sheet and do some fine adjustment when the crew is pumping the main sheet or a spinnaker sheet. It also has the advantage that in a blow you don't need to go forward and you can stay at the rear keeping the boat under full power. I personally really favour this setup over that wth the mainbeam.

Wouter

The system we have set up on the Tiger is to have a small double block tied to each of the shrouds. Both the downhaul and jib sheet go through this then down under the tramp. There is then a cat's cradle of elastic and pulleys under the tramp to take up the spare line. I crew on the Tiger, and normally do the mainsheet, but using this system I have the jib sheet and downhaul right by my feet and very easy to get to from either the trapeze or sat in the rear half of the boat.

I've set up a similar thing for the downhaul on my Stealth, and it works very nicely. I definitely prefer it here, rather than fed through the front beam.

It does take a bit of care to avoid ending up with all of the line on one side of the boat, but the way we have the pulleys set up maximises the amount of line under the boat, and if you sort it out before a race then you won't run out of line in a 3 or 4 lap race.

Paul

Paul,

Actually one of the reasons I run the jib sheet as shown in the previous drawing is to keep it well clear of the other control lines on board.

I run my downhaul like this :





The red lines are underneath my trampoline; the red line is a bunchy cord.



I run my spi halyard like this :




The dotted green line is underneath my trampoline. That black line is again a bungee cord.


If you superposition the three drawings then you see that all lines are clear of eachother and that nearly always the are run at an angle to eachother. This prevents the lines getting wrapped on eachother. All lines are tensioned by a mild force and al the control are accessible and operatable from everywhere on the trampoline by both a doublehanded crew and a singlehanded crew. The last is important to me as I do sail/race regulary solo as a cat-rig + spi or a sloop rig. I still race most often as a doublehander.

Also all the controls and the spi halyard can be operate from the lee side of the baot without the crew twisting himself in all sorts of funny shapes. When the leeward cleat of the jib gets unstuck then even the skipper can secured it from the luff hull while sitting against the rearbeam.

The only things that are more cumbersome is adjusting the jibsheet when both sailors are in the trapeze. Ofcourse hoisting and dousing the spi can't not be done from the trapeze. The rest is all accessible from the trapeze. Personally I don't care much for adjusting the jib from the trapeze. The cleat on the mainbeam is close enough to the side of the platform to reach for it when it is really needed, but I'm finding that I'm hardly ever adjusting the jib when double trapezing as in these strong winds. Proper mainsail trim and good coordination seems to be much more important than having adsolutely the best upwind trim.

I would love to hear about and see different solutions/setups and learn, so please can you make a drawing of your own setups ?



Wouter

.

Hey Wouter... Give this a try.

Red line is the jib sheet and the broken red line is inside the beam. The blue line is shock cord.

The jib sheet comes threw the swivel cleats on the beam, throew pullies tied to the side stays and then goes inside the front beam where it goes threw a series of pullies pulled tought by shock cord attached to each pull and wrapping around the beam bolts inside the beam.

The idea is to keep the tramp a clean as possible. The kite sheet and main / traveler you can not avoid being on the tramp. All other sheets / controls should be keeped well clear.

Our F-18 and old T did not have any controls come out to the side stays before sucking into the beam. The crew on these boats trap behind the side stay and whilst the front beam is futher away on these boats, the crew had no trouble leaning down and pulling it out.

On the down wind don't worry about jib trim. Just release and go for it. The jib is so small it will make no difference if it is luffing.... The kite is doing all the work. Apparent changes that much also on the downwind that you would have to be continualy trimming the jib to keep the tell tails flying. Concentrating on doing this just distracts you from the main tasks at hand which is steering smooth, watching for gusts, other boats and going fast.

As you come into the bottom mark to drop the kite, the skipper should be on the wire with mainsheet. The crew just before the drop should trim the jib and rotation. After drop the crew should get on the wire, adjust the downhaul, minor adjustments to jib and rotation then take the main.

Wouter keeps referring to the Mainbeam which, as I read his posts must be the rear beam, since certainly you don't want to be forward of the Front Beam. With that in perspective, he puts his jibsheet where you have to go forward to adjust it. Fine upwind, but on a reach won't this shift your weight way too far forward and beg for the inevitable PP?(See my avatar, that's what happened on a screaming reach when I went forward for the jibsheet on the Nacra F-18 last year at Tradewinds)
I understand the Capricorn has the Downhaul and Rotator controls routed to the rear beam, where you need your ballast to be when it's honking under spi, even moreso solo. Would think this epecially important when dealing with a wingmasted boat. Anyone got a diagram of how they acomplish this? (BTW, the line art is tres' cool, guys & most helpful)

Wouter,

Your downhaul setup is actually almost exactly what we have for both jib and downhaul on the tiger. The only difference is that we don't have the block on the front beam - from the shroud, the lines go straight under the tramp.

Keeping the lines separate is not an issue. Both jib sheet and downhaul are suspended a little bit above the deck, but arrive at the shrouds at different angles. This makes grabbing either of them easy. Under the tramp, the two lines are anchored back to different points, which reduces the opportunity for interference. We're very pleased with the results.

Paul

We have had no troble accesing the jib sheet whilst reaching. Just grab it before you round the top mark and bring it back with you. You can do all this without leaving the wire. And whilst we do race courses where reaching is required, the Capricorn is an optimised windward leward boat.

As far as controls go on the Cap, the downhaul is accesable from just behind the front beam whislt rotation and jib is at the front beam. We plan to move our downhaul to the side stay simular to what I drew up for the jib. This is so I (skipper) can access it and play it in puffs.

Below is a pic of our Capricorn. The lines are a little long as we are asembling the new boat for the firat time and have not trimmer any at the time.

Red line - Down haul, swivel cleat can be seen at the edge where the tramp meets the front beam. The downhaul purchase is all under the tramp behind the front beam. Down haul soon to be detoured via a block tied to the side stay.

White and red line - jib sheet still to be trimmed

Blue line - Mast rotation, swivel cleats at base of mast.

Keep the tramp as clean as you can.

Photo below is Macca's Super Taipan. The Kite, main sheets and spin halyard still to be trimmed as this boat was still in assembly stage at the time.

Stephen,

Can you explain how this is working:



How do you get the resultant (multi purchased) line from under the tramp to the luffeye so it is not impeded as the mast rotates (or does it come up thru the mast ball ?)

Alot of boat lead the jib sheet to the mainbeam (The forward one) I however lead them to the rearbeam. See my diagrams.

When honking I can't go all the forward to the mainbeam to get the jib sheet without pressing the bow down, indeed. A compromise is to first lead the sheet to the sidestays and then forward again. I tried that but personally didn't like it.

Wouter

Stephen:
What's the Blue line that runs from the sidestay into the front beam end cap?
http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/63469-5%207%2012%20small.JPG
AND, do you find that you get forward tension on the crew trap line with it bungied into the Front Beam?

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