The time has come to replace the tramp on my H17. I like the idea of one clean surface area and I'm thinking about the one-piece bias-cut tramp. However, I know that it isn't class legal.

While you certainly won't find me at any national racing events where I suspect people would object, but I or my son plan on racing it 4-5 times this summer (we're beginner racers).

Would people object to the tramp at the smaller local events, or would they look the other way? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!
Bill
n6.0na
H17

Most local racers are more forgiving and permissive than they would be at the larger events. They are happy to just have another boat on the water. As you get better and move up the racing ranks it might become an issue. Nobody's too worried about the newbie racers in the back of the pack but when you start winning races then it may become an issue. Of course none of this is relevant if your racing in an open class, where tramp style is not an issue. Most regattas require at least 5 boats of the same design to have their own class. If there are less than 5 H17's racing where your racing you will probably be in the Open Class and handicapped using Portsmouth figures. In that case tramp style, sail maker, and other modifications are not considered into the handicap figures. Sail size, beam width, spinnaker, number of persons on the boat and wind speed can all modify your Pourtsmouth handicap number.

Fortunately for you, you're right in the middle of prime H-17 country. There's lots of 17's that race in HCA Division 11 - it's probably the most active 17 area in the country. They had an average of 10 H-17's on the line for each of their 8 sanctioned regattas last year. The division web site is at www.catsailing.com/division11/.

I personally like the three-piece tramp. I borrowed a boat for the 17 North Americans this past year (in Rehoboth, DE) that had one of the original Hobie "one-piece" bias cut tramps. I couldn't get it tight enough and it sagged a bit in the middle when you put weight on it. I felt like I was kneeling in the water when I tacked.

On my old 17, I had a three piece and I could get it drum tight, which helps keep the boat stiff.

Lance is right about it not being a big deal until you start winning races. It will be a while before you do that in Division 11, though. Those guys are fast!

Don't worry about you tramp Bill. Just hook up the boat and come sailing with us. The Div 11 H17 fleet is a great group and you will have a good time. (Don't forget the kids. Division 11 is committed to the development of our youth program.)

Thanks for the feedback Matt - Now you have me thinking about my choice. Are you thinking about their two-piece tramp laced together diagonally covered by a flap (which does sag!).

How taught are the new one-piece tramps? Do they sag? Has anyone else had any experience with the new one-piece tramps?

Thanks Dan! Your response is what I was hoping for.

Also, I do plan on bringing my 16 yr old son. His senior project (which he chose - not me!) is learning how to race solo this summer. He took's Rick's course last year and is rearing to go! However, I don't know how competitive he'll be weighing in at 230 pounds!

I'll look for you this spring/summer.

I am in the process of building a new tramp for my Nacra 5.2. It is a one piece with bolt ropes on the front and sides. I like my tramps drum tight too, so if it sags, I am going to put two rows of grommets up the middle and pull it tight as if it were a two piece. I have measured and remeasured and I am pretty sure it is going to be pretty darn tight. I have attached a picture of what I have so far. All that remains is sewing the back seam, grommets, and adding some pockets up front for the halyards.

Bill,

I had a "conventional" 3 piece trampoline - with center / back lacings. The two piece is only available in solid vinyl (I think), which I would never go back to. I really don't like sitting in a puddle.

I like having the lacings - the back lacings give you a place to jam your heel in when sitting on the wing, and the center lacings give you a place to grab when hauling yourself from one side to the other in a tack.

At 230, your son is a big guy to be sailing the 17. He's going to be spotting some people (like Dan Ward) about 70 lbs. Look out when the wind blows, though!

Rob,

it looks good. Hard to tell about seams/reinforcement from the picture, but I am looking forward to hear how it turns out.

Why did you go for a solid trampoline instead of mesh? I personally prefer quite tight mesh trampolines. I find them easier to move about on, not as slippery, water doesnt pool up and it lets some wind trough it.


Regarding tightening the trampoline drumskin tight to stiffen the boat.. There has been some discussion and testing on this in the Tornado class. Unless your trampoline is bias cut, tightening it hard enough to rip tracks/fittings out of the hulls will not stiffen the boat significantly. A bias cut trampoline will take some of the diagonal tension and help stiffening the beams if they are underdimensioned.

The H17 has curved beams (that aren't terribly stiff) and while I haven't completely thought through the dynamics, I think this allows the trampoline to tighten the platform a little more than a boat with straight beams.

Jake,

why would curved beams with a tight trampoline help stiffen the platform? You might put some torsional load on the beams, but would that stiffen up the boat?
As long as the warp and weft of the trampoline is aligned across and lengthwise of the boat, the major load path is on the bias of the cloth, so the trampoline will stretch and distort instead of taking up any loads. At least that is my view and understanding of this.
Perhaps you have an applied engineering lesson for meg?

The reason I went with a solid material is because it was free. I am a little concerned about the windage factor since I sail singlehanded or with my 6 year old son a lot. I sailed on an H14 and a H16 that had solid tramps and it wasn't too big of a deal. I don't remember it sagging to where I was sitting in a puddle. I'm pretty light (150#) so I won't be putting too much strain on the material. As far as tightness, I don't think it is going to be so tight that it pulls out fittings. I like it tight, but not that tight. I want to be able to install it without taking the Lord's name in vain. I reinforced the bolt ropes X 4. The center seam is double locked (kind of like the kung-fu grip). It is all sewn with V92 bonded polyester in zig-zag seams. The corners ended up getting just a X 3 reenforcment but I think it will hold with no problem. I plan on writing a DIY article for Daemon on TheBeachcats.com with pictures. Hopefully I will have it done soon after the new year.

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2

It sounds good Rob. Perhaps some reinforcement of the middle seam also would be prudent, depending on how you did it.

What sewing machine do you have, that are able to pull nice stitches in 5 layers of material?

If you write up an DIY article, I suggest you check with Rick wether he wants to use it in Catamaran Sailor..

I used a regular domestic machine, though I have to admit it is not a cheapy. It is a pretty decent machine. We were able to pull the V92 through a very small section of the front bolt rope that had 8 layers. Most of our sewing was done through 4 layers and we had no problem. We did have some problems with the bobbin getting tangled at times. It was easy enough to fix and only slowed us down a little. I highly recommend the bonded polyester V92 from Sailrite.com. It was very very easy to work with. Most of our stitching was zig-zag, but we did use straight stitching at times. I'll attach a picture of the sewing machine.

-Rob V.
Panama City

Another picture of my "rigged" thread fairlead.

-Rob V.
Panama City

I noticed from the pictures that your sewing machine has a 75watt motor. That's pretty decent for a domestic machine. My old Pfaff has a 80watt motor and has enough power to build sails for our boat. I need to help it get started when sewing reinforcements tough.


Why is your wife doing the sewing?


What size needle did you use for the v92 thread, 130/100?

I can't sew for crap. I did all the designing and she was there to punch holes in all my ideas. I had to stand my ground on the pockets. She says that they will not work because the two layers will be too tight and I won't be able to put anything in them. I asked her to please... yes I said please... stop wrecking my buzz and just sew the darn thing. (I hope I'm right) I'm worried she is going to have the baby before we finish. She has been really patient with me and even though she is very uncomfortable with a baby sitting on her bladder, she continues to help me. What a trooper! I keep telling her this is all so she will be more comfortable on the boat this spring.
She has sewn all her life so she knows a lot about how the fabric will react. Even if I could do it as well as her, she probably wouldn't let me for fear of me breaking her machine. She will be the first to tell you that it isn't perfect, but I think it looks great and beats the heck out what came off the boat.

Grommets go on tonight.

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2

Rob,
Your wife is most likely right about the pockets.
Unless you have darts in the side or a pleat down the centre or some other way of putting excess cloth into one side of the pocket you won't be able to put much in it.

BTW:- What fabric are you using?

Regards,
Phill

Rolf,
I forgot to mention that I am using a 110/18 needle, though I only had one and broke it with about 2 feet of stitching left. We ended up using a 100/16 and it worked fine.

Phill,
All I really need to do is get the halyards in the pockets. That's the only reason I put them on. They should fit even if it is tight. The material is some sort of very heavy ripstop. I was helping a friend of mine do some work and I noticed a bright blue roll of material in his workshop. I mentioned that it was a pretty blue and I was looking for some material in a similar color to build a trampoline. He said that this material would work and asked me how much I needed. When I continued to ask about the material, he said he didn't know much about it. He had gotten it in bulk at an auction, but he said it was rediculously strong. He cut a piece off and cut two slits in it. He then tried to continue ripping it and couldn't. I tried and it wouldn't rip. He uses it on bimini tops for power/fishing boats. He showed me a bikini top that he put on his tractor that he had pulled drum tight. He said you could get up on top of the tractor and stand on it although I didn't take him up on the offer. So basically, when anyone asks where I got the material, I tell them that it came from aliens because I really have no idea what it is. I'll attach a close up picture. It is heavier than the trampoline mesh, but much lighter than the old solid Hobie tramps.


-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2

Forgot to attach the photo.

-Rob V.