Well, I think I may have found where Matt is...

This week there is a big A cat regatta in the Keys and Vectorworks Marine (Matt) will be brining the new US built JavXA to the regatta, so I'm sure he is there today and not able to get to the internet. I hope he has the time availble to stick around and sail his Blade in the Tradewinds regatta.

Re. the F16's on the same line with everyone else...I personally would NOT want to be starting with a bunch of I-20's, especially in light air. Their mast is about 32' high and they will stop you dead in the water until their entire fleet goes by, then you can start racing. So, what is the point? I think each class should get it's own start, that only takes 3 minutes, 6 more minutes total if the I20's, then the F18's then the F16's.

And you are right, if the F16's start with the F18's, the F18's will correctly cry "foul" if an F16 gets in the way. If I had spent the time away from work and $1,000+ to drive down and sail at Tradewinds, I sure as hell would not want some boat from some other class sitting on me in light air. Unless they are all racing as Portsmouth, you are doing a great injustice to both fleets to start them together. The only one it helps is the Race Committee, not the sailors.

One other thing...do you really want an Inter 20 or F18 to T-bone you at the start? Not me. You are not racing against them so why start with them? You can still talk smack if any F16 starts 3 minutes behind the F18's and then beats them to the finish line.

Hello ! Through all that dirty air and then having to pass about 17 boats to get there. That will be some show of force, I agree, but not very relatistic ! F16's ain't THAT good.


I think all boats should start and race together and have a major cup for the overall winner. Then a victory (over 50 boats) actually means something. But that is not the format of the Tradewinds, so we'll probably see several start fleets.





The point is that more then once it was shown that F16's can pass I-20's through their lee-side and most often it is the I-20's who are really pissed off. The latter because the F16's are so agile on the start-line and once ahead an I-20 will have difficulty passing. Often they have to tack away and look for clean air themselfs. Great fun !


Besides how about first an F16 start, then F18 start and then the I-20 start. Lets some of the other crews (I-20) breath heaps of dirty air for a chance. I mean those guys having the taller masts and thus sticking out of the dirty air layer into clear wind anyway !

Not to forget of course :




No it is much better to close-in on the bouy as the leader in a later start fleet and have the bottom halve of the F18 fleet (the bozo's) clog up the bouy area and trying to approach it on a port tack and what not.

Ohh I just love multiple start events especially when the first start fleet is already rounding C-mark or coming down under spinnaker when your class has just started. I also never understood why the RC typically starts the fastest fleet first and the slowest fleet last.

Give me one start, one listing event any time.

Wouter

(I'm sure you guys understand to not take this post too seriously)

Wouter, they usually start the faster boats first to avoid the clog at the first mark, like you said. If the fast ones started last, they would be overtaking the slower boats at every mark, and all the fleets could end up finishing at the same time, talk about a mess!

If you start 3 minutes behind other boats, you will have plenty of clear air, but if you start right under a big boat, you won't have any air, until he goes by. I know these guys on the Inter 20's racing at Tradewinds, you can bet they are not mid fleet slackers. I'm the mid fleet slacker and I won't be there. You will not sail through their lee on ANY other boat, let alone a 16 footer. They will not be tacking away, they will drive right over the F18's and F16's, no problem. The F16's will be waiting for them to go by, then tacking away. Seen it, done it, at Wildcat, with Matt and Chuck on the new Blades, and some F18's, and 6 Inter 20's, all on the same line. The way they (F16's) got ahead of anyone was to tack away and find a new wind shift, not by outrunning the I20's, that won't happen, upwind or down, and Matt and Chuck will tell you that.

To me it sounds like you want to have one big start just to piss off the longer boats. I have been on both sides of the issue, on a 5.5 starting with Inter 20's and an Inter 20 starting with F18's and F16's. In a small local race, no big deal. In a bigger regatta where you spend alot of time and money, it is a big deal, to me.

If I'm "fleet racing" then I want a separate start. If there are not enough to make a fleet, then they can lump them together for one start. Most of the guys I have talked to do not want boats they are not racing against on their starting line, bigger or smaller, unless it's only about 2-3 other boats.

I like the red hulls, but mine will be pristine white. It'll have to be more than one RumRunner.

Has Rick chimed in with his thoughts as PRO for moving the F16s to the longer course?

Formerly known as FlyaF17.

Man you guys are a bunch of whiners

OK I have pre-registered now. It will be cool to have a class, but my personal preference would be to be starting with everyone even though the scores may be separate. I know Rick, and the F18 class will want their own start for various reasons.

I feel the more people you can get on a start the better it makes the racing. It adds challenge to the race, and if you look the winning boats still come out on top no matter the make-up of the starting group. Some hack on a start line is a possability whether they are in your fleet or not, so knowing how to avoid them and run a good start despite the conditions is important, and I object to the comments from people assuming the hack is going to necessarily be on the smaller boat. My experience has usually been the opposite as the dangerous drivers seem to be those trying to buy speed with a bigger boat and have overstepped their abilities.

Winning a start in a big mixed fleet on a H16 is a cool feeling. (it doesn't last long becuse you soon get driven up or over) The tactics change as now you need an opening and you need to know about the boats around you. i.e. do not start with an A-cat close under you unless you know you can get on top of his wind before the gun goes off.

Hopefully the conditions will be good where we can get some good boat to boat racing no matter the starts.

Looking forward to it.

Matt

Matt, are you racing an A cat this week?

Sorry mate, but I suspect that you won't get number 7 because number 8 has already been delivered. See picture,




Wouter

I was supposed to be there right now, but things are keeping me swamped. I am going down Wed and will be on the A fro the races Thurs and Fri, then head up to Largo to due Tradewinds. Gina is coming down sometime Fri to meet me.

M

Glad to hear you will get some A sailing in! Have a good time and good luck. Say Hi to all for me...I'll be at a horse show in Venice, trying to get one sold!

Hey hey, got you fired up Tim !




I'm just doing alot of smack talking right now.

Hence me final statement in my other post ;

"(I'm sure you guys understand to not take this post too seriously) "

Wouter

Glad to hear there is a fleet of F16s and you will be on the Orange Course (the longer course). <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The F18s are holding their Midwinter Nationals in conjunction with the Tradewinds and no one will start with them.

Weather sounds great and the winds have been honking lately.
Rick

Correct, unknown hull # - so I put 7?? to denote 709, 710, 711 or 712. Not sure where I stand in the ordering process. Just a small detail in the order of things.

What was finally determined about country designation? Should all F16's sport the three letter country code?

Okay, I see now.





All F16 compliant boats must show their 3 letter nation code and 3 digit sailnumber on both sides of their mainsail. The F16 class refers to the ISAF regulations for further details.

However these regulations are almost impossible to find for any normal sailor (don't we just love that ISAF organisation) so just go with what your builder is doing, teh F16 class will make contact with the builder if what he is doing is irregular.

By the way you will need to have a 3 digit number. so number 8 will have to be written down as 008. Or to be really precise. US boat #8 => USA 008

Be sure to become an F16 class member (still free of charge) and claim this number and secure your ballot voting rights. If you don't then you have no right to this sailnumber and anybody can take it away from you.

Wouter

That one is coming to Tradewinds for its debut. I'm not sure who will be sailing it. I guess Hans himself with crew.
Wouter [/quote]
If that's so that means we'll definitely have a F-16 class, probably SIX on the start.
This is getting better all the time.
Thought I saw Hans registered on a 18SQ, thought that was unusual. Of course, My name is up there for the F-18 fleet and that means nothing too. Guess there's no way to change your registration once it is posted.

Glad to see you crawled out from under the Carbon Fiber/Kevlar Mat you MUST have been trapped under, Matt. or Maybe your KeyBoard ran out of Ink . . .
Getting a little bit worried about not seeing you on the prereg list.
Getting Pumped aboput the Blade experience, can't wait!
Gonna have to give up a few secrets to help the newbie Blade sailor, I need all the tips I can get.
See you Friday.

It is my understanding that Hans Geissler and Bret Moss have teamed up to sail the G-Cat F16 at Tradewinds. I think they are planning to do some practicing with it on Wednesday, which is a lay-day during the A-Cat regatta here in the Keys. (Bret is racing in the A-Cat regatta.)

EXCELLENT! As it should be!

Hans told me last week that he was not going as he would be on a mission trip. But he did tell me that Matt had sailed the G-cat 16 (F-16) and he thought it was going to be competitive. My old G-Cat 5.0 was a screamer, I can only imagine it with a spin, sounds like fun! Make it min. weight and it will definitley be a hot boat.

Humm that is interesting.

Just yesterdag Hans e-mailed me saying "... we will race the boat in the trade wind regatta in key largo ..."

You know what I will just e-mail Hans back and ask him who is going to sail the boat.

Wouter

Maybe Hans is on a Mission to Sail the F-16 at Tradewinds.
Track 'im down, Wout-mon.