Hello Sailors,
As a frequent voyeur to this site I came to a rather unique observation. I enjoy the fact that as a sport and ‘community’ we have this forum to exchange ideas, encourage sailors of all sorts, post results, and generally share positive feelings about our passion. However, I have also noticed, that sometimes (key word!!) sometimes this forum is used to promote one kind of boat, one manufacturer, or one type of racing over the other.

And this is where I began to question. I have snooped around other sporting forums (baseball, football, soccer, auto racing) and RARELY see such brand showcasing. In other words, I have yet to see a baseball forum say a brand A mitt is better than brand B…so nanny nanny. Or If you have a brand B mitt you cannot play.

So, does this mean that as sailors, we are way more into majoring on the minors? In other words are we that into ‘technology’ and superiority to the point we forget the overall goal of the forum. In our world sailing is big, but the reality of it is most people don’t know a port from a starboard, or deck to a mast. Honestly, ours is quite an exciting sport to those in the know. While I bet most here could probably lay out some baseball statistics, or favorite nascar team for racing, ask people on the street who won the last AC race, or who won gold in sailing last summer games….?? (yes…maybe in nascar you have a ford is better than chevy post)…..but can that relate?

What would an outsider looking in to this forum make of it? Would they think, “wow, these guys are REALLY competitive, maybe I should back off” or would they think…c’mon..give me a break!

Like I said, it seems far and few between that we get those types of posts, but when we do…well…you all know what happens……

Just a thought….

Michael

I haven't ever visited...but can you imagine that a racing forum talks about Chevy, Ford, Toyota, etc. in the same kind of way?

Baseball is hardly about the equipment to the level that sailing is...but you could somewhat argue that sailing is not about the equipment...but most of us are so passionate about our sport and our performance that we take it to a very high level of preparedness - most of which would probably fall into the superstition category.

I also think that you misinterpret the equipment bickering. Although the claims boil down to this boat is better, etc...it's really about people trying to build the class they most closely identify with so they have more people to race against.

you tell him, jake
I only recently got into cat sailing- I was previously into cruising monohulls then crewing on a monohull. This forum has been a great resource for ideas, suggestions, and inspiration. Although some of the threads occassionally get into "my boat is better than yours" or "the next best boat is..." I think that the range of boats discussed gives all a fair shake.
Some of the talk is occassionally intimidating but overall I think this is a fairly friendly place... I can't tell you how much Jake, for one, has helped me out with advice.
So... how about a group hug

I have to say that this is one of the most "ecumenical" forums I've ever been part of. Sure, there's some zealots, but I've seen MUCH more fanatacism promoting specific marques or teams on car/racing forums and football/baseball forums.

Mike, I think you got it right with the "few and far between". I suspect some of what you are refering to is the "Hobie edict" discussions. I certainly was a part of those. I have yet to sail on a cat I don't like though! I sail a Hobie, if I was a racer, I might sail something else. I really like the concept of the "formula" classes. For me, whatever the boat, sailing is about fun. This forum is far more often a place of unity than divisiveness, or exclusion.I have made so many friends here! It has been a place where I can stay in touch with some of the wonderful people that have been excluded from my Fleet. The qualities that originally drew me into my fleet, were the openess, accepting nature, and the diversity of it's members. I find that most sailors here want to "grow the sport", and welcome all who are interested! This is a place where it doesn't matter which boat you sail, as long as it's a cat!

The only thing that bothers me on this forum is cat sailors sometimes badmouthing or making fun of monohulls. I think it is important for us to see ourselves first as sailors and secondarily as multihull sailors.

I would like to think that multihull sailors are more openminded, and more accepting of boat choice, than a lot of monohull sailors are. We are more likely to get monohull sailors to convert to multihulls if we don't ridicule them for their type of boat.

Rick and I have sailed and raced both monohulls and multihulls and had lots of fun on both. The sailors themselves are the same on shore, no matter how many hulls they have on the water.

P.S. I wasn't referring to what Brian said as being derogatory to monohulls, because it was not. It just reminded me about the occasional times when derogatory statements ARE made.

Jake,
I just wanted to clarify. Yes, 98% of the time this forum is very positive. I suppose after thinking about it here is the difference. While a nascar fan might say “ford is better than chevy”…how many fans actually get to race? Whereas this forum is mostly used by those that actually race, it is sure to lead to passion of brand, type of race, etc.

I think that as sailors (dare I say, Multihull sailors) we as a group are probably more performance orientated than most. I think a contributing factor certainly is fleet building as well. Ok…..I’ve done my post for the new year.

Michael

YEP!

I disagree, I think there is only one type of boat in fact, only one model and year, everybody should own a 1978 H16 white hulls, red white and blue sails white tramp on a green trailer (Guess what I just bought). On the other hand, isn't a cat a cat? I'm stil a little wishywashie on this subject.

Happy Sailing
Sam

Now on to the Promotion side….(Jake, maybe you can help out here). Last year at the Alter Cup, (Long Beach, CA) Truly a great event, great venue, and good weather. However, at the same time of the race, the Long Beach YC was also holding the Congressional Cup, right of the end of the pier!!! Grandstands, Leaderboad, all within 50 yards of the pier.

Now, to a passerby, it was exciting racing….but way off in the background…Hobie tigers are flying hulls, flying chutes, sea spray, hailing!!! Racing at its finest. Why not within easy view of the public? That is what needs to be done more. I think any beach cat racing has got to be more exciting to watch than some Catalina 25’s match racing??

Michael

Using a pier for a RC "boat" would be great for the spectators, but downright hazardous for the racers.

We use a pier or dock as our start and finish line every week. And, on the few occasion I have taken my kids there to see the start or the finish.

I personally love Monohulls, But I do get a kick out of them when they seem to somehow think their boats are Fast . . . Not making fun, I just never get how anything that maxes out at ~~~7 knots upwind due to hull speed limitations, no matter how hard the wind blows, can possibly be considered fast.
& Yes I frequently am jealous of the Heads and Beds and dry spaces and especially the Coolers full of icy beverages.

There's probably not much difference between hitting a pier or an anchored 24' pontoon boat.

Dodge Trucks rule!

They are the best cat pullers out there!

Michael: Thank you for the kind words about the Alter Cup. Here is another thing that happened during that event. While they were racing next to the pier with all the grandstand seating watching the Congressional Cup, there were comments from both observers and announcers about the action further out on the water. Meaning the Alter Cup. We were noticed. I found this out from a couple of people that were there.

I would like to address the branding issue that you ask about in the beginning. I think that if you took away the names (manufacturers) there are still issues that have to do with technology that we would discuss. For example the best system to use for trapezing, whether it is better to use a 10:1 mainsheet system, having too many lines or too few, extremely light carbon fiber tiller or the more stalwart fiberglass one. I could go on about sails, mast material, spinnaker shape etc. This is a general open forum that usually gets posts about racing. Most of the sailors (posters) seem to race or be interested in starting to do so. Curious about how a particular boat sails or why someone would rig a certain way. All in an effort to sail a small bit faster. Losing a race to another boat after about 7 miles on a triangle course by ½ boat length starts me doing some research. Wondering if something else makes sense. 9 ft (½ boat length) divided by 36000 ft (7miles) is a very small number to try to get an advantage. I think it is mostly curiosity and confirmation as to why people refer to names (manufacturers) in lieu of explaining hull shape and dynamics of the boats. Most of us can see the shape and layout of the Formula 18, Hobie 16, A-cat, Tornado and some others in our minds eye. That way we do not have to try to describe details.

Eric: Thanks for the challenge. The second definition has to do with religion. Maybe sailing is really our universal spiritual connection.
ec·u·men·i·cal also ec·u·men·ic adj.
1. Of worldwide scope or applicability; universal.
2.
a. Of or relating to the worldwide Christian church.
b. Concerned with establishing or promoting unity among churches or religions.

Mary: Getting multihull folks and monohull folks together is getting easier and easier. Seems to me that the “them vs. us” lines are getting duller. I think that has a lot to do with the fact that more multihulls are participating in Yacht Club events. This allows everybody (different boat types) to get together at the end of the day and talk about courses, weather and other conditions they have in common. Common grounds will bridge the gap. Our yacht Club ABYC has several sailors that were monohull sailors buying cats. I am invited to sail on monohulls and do quite often. Racing is racing.

Later,
Dan

I agree totally! We've been changing the stigma at our local sailing clubs that catamarans are simple lazy go fast machines. Especially with the appearance of F18 and Acats around here the yachties are beginning to realize that although we do go fast, that it's just as technical as other sailboat racing and we're not JUST there for the party.

On the other hand 25 mph is a bit slow compared to a jet ski. It's all relative and you only have to be a little faster than the next guy to think you are fast.

Don't dog the mono's. They may not be for you but their are a LOT of folks sailing them and spending an insane amount of money on them. So, somebody has to think they are fun.

Hey Dan: How's things out west? I think the divide is much smaller also. I hate to say it, but it may have to do with the fact that the average cat sailor is approaching the average age of the monohull sailor. We can now afford to buy drinks inside the club house.
Jake: As a pledging member of C.R.A.P. You know we are always there for the party. How's the shirt design coming?
Here's what my crew is doing:

Well Pat after seeing the picture (I think it is your daughter, hard to tell with all the padding) you posted I dare say...We are seeing 80 degrees right now and the wind is blowing about 15. Plan on a really nice sail this weekend. Just Eileen and I and maybe a couple bottles of Bass. I have not sailed for about a month and am getting kind of itchy to go.

We have a few ex-cat sailors at the club. Their reasonings are anywhere from the fact that the whole family can be on the same boat to weekends in Catalina. I think that I may be the first board member that is a multihuller. That is a big deal to a couple of people there. Not in a bad way. Just that it shows that we are willing to get involved.

We just had a CISA clinic introducing the kids to catamaran racing and that was really impressive to a lot of folks there. We are making, I think, big strides. Really hope to be seeing you sooner than later.

Dan