Thanks Wouter, I assume that is to "just click over".

+20kg on an Inter 17 (EU / 19sq kite) takes it to 110! (and is exactly on the click over).

So you keep a handy 20Kg lump of lead in your trailer box. And when you're planning on racing solo, instead of spending 2 minutes rigging the jib, you spend 3 minutes bolting the lump under the main beam!

Result= same handicap as an F16 sloop.......... (and better opportunity to win on handicap)

John,

No you miss my point (I think, not sure you are not just being silly, and I'm V tired)

If you were to rate a single hander as weighing in at 95kg (SCHRS assumes everyone is the same at 75kg) then the handicap changes to what you guys are saying the F16 actually performs to !

So if sailing one up the "crew weight" is (notionally) 95kg
If sailing 2 up it is 150 (75x2).

Wouter is not alone.

SCHRS have never replied to any e mails I have sent.

Try checking the data for an FX1 on schrs. You will find the main/mast area is wrong. If you put the correct data in it sails off 101.

SCHRS thinks crew is just ballast. Although the crew has 2 hands available as compared to the helm's one (assuming he holds the tiller with one!) the is no consideration of this.

I was talking to a Spitfire sailor who tells me they are considering making the Spitfire heavier by a few kgs. This would take the schrs from 104 to 105. Also they have been trying a larger kite to the max dimensions for schrs. (I think this kite was tried at Aruba?)

Are we all going mad? Surely wee should be tweaking the system to reflect the boat's performance not tweaking the boat to suit an unsatifacory system?

How do we put more pressure on SCHRS. Maybe a consolidated effort?

if you don't mind i'd like to sort of ask/review the techniques for once you are sailing w/spi up in highwinds.
you may be out on the wire, if you are you have at least 1 foot strap and you may be hooked into a preventer/chickenline, you are prolly not flying a hull fulltime, the mainsheet and traveler are cleated off, you are hand holding the spi sheet in 1 hand and steering with the other.
before you got there you had to set the boards, downhaul,and mast rotation besides setting the spi.
sounds like quite a challenging ride if this is accurate.

Sorry Simon,

Didn't mean to tire you out

I was just trying to be mildly humourous!

I'll get me coat then................

Dave, since the dawn of rating rules (look back to JOG, SORC, RORC etc) boats have been 'tweaked' to the rules. It will always be the case.

What has been highlighted, however, is a major flaw with both SCHRS and TEXEL. Therefore at the next annual review meeting, both of these bodies should be looking to address this failing (assuming they know about it).

I'm not familiar enough with PHRS to know whether they have a similar situation, but I suspect not as their handicap system is anecdotally based.

Actually you get the hang of it after not too long. Then you continue working on smoothing things out. It is not easy to do but I also think it sounds more challenging then it really is in reality. The good thing about it is that the the other sailors don't see it that way and will be full of aw when they see you blast by riding that tiger by the spi sheet.

I must admit that I kind of like it now. One must build up skills gently from light winds to alot of wind but if done so then it will become quite well to do.

Wouter

I actually reall prefer the Texel rating system for the reason that they are million times easier to contact and talk with. They will consider any request you put to them. And of course Texel has come some way to correcting the singlehander ratings by introducing the "light winds" and "high winds" rating modifications in 2005. Problem overhere in NL is just that the Race committees simply decided to not use this more fair set of rating numbers. I feel that with respect to texel it is not so much a problem of the rating system anymore but rather of the way the event organisors have decided to use it.

With respect to the tweaking a boat to a favourable handicap number. well I think this is selfdefeating activity. Will work under one handicap rule set and totally not under another. It will actually hamper the international growth of a class. The very thing the Spitfire class is experiencing right now. Great in UK and Nothern France but virtually non-existant outside of those two area's.

I believe a class should much rather try to race, ehhh raise, the standard and their handicap then try to lower it. It is also much better for the spirit inside the class. A "can-do" mentallity inside a class seems to make everybody sail and work harder and this translates into international growth and a more enjoyable class.

With respect to SCHRS, we'll I gave it my best shot and I won't make it a secret that 1.01 is the correct rating for the F16's over 1.02. We solo sailors should contact our RC's and explain the situation to them, I feel that with a good explaination you will get alot further then by negociating with the SCHRS handicap committee. Apart from that I'll rest my case.

Wouter

While I cannot speak for Reg White, who is on holiday at the moment, I believe the only reason that the overall weight of the Spitfire might have increased is because of the improved quality of the dagger-boards. I know that this did add some weight. There is no way that Spitfire sailors would want to change their SCHRS number. They beat most other classes on the water anyway

I am trying to contact someone from SCHRS via other routes. I'll keep people informed.

Scooby,

When (if?) you get hold of someone at SCHRS then please notify them of our F16 correction as well. I tried the UK tornado chair as you adviced last time but no reply as of yet.

The F16 chance is linked to the sail area simplification that was approved a year ago. Noting major but we ended up at just below the rounding off threshold instead of just above it.

I will give a full explanation when you have made contact.

Wouter

Will do.

Just out of interest, has anybody got a specific ideas about how exactly the the SCHRS formulas could change; a specific proposal to include a platform width to length ratio for example...?

Formulas are here:-

www.schrs.com

Wouter, is there anything about Texel that is Texel-race specific? or could it be used as an international system without modification?

**DUPE** Please delete.

The Texel handicap system is a bouy-race based system. The name Texel comes from its early beginnings. One reason yardstick didn't work in Holland was because there would always be a score of new designs the Texel race which wouldn't have had time to develop a fair yardstick number. So there was a need for a measurement based system, this in time became the Texel handicap system. The name does not refer in any way to the Texel handicap system being optimized for the Texel distance race. It is actually not. Hence the fact that Hobie 16's often finish high in the final listings. It is however rather accurate in bouy races and it is indeed by far most often used in that role.

Personally I think that the Texel 2005 version is currently the most accurate and dependable rating system in the world today. I wouldn't have said that as easily about the previous versions, but about the 2005 I do. It is the ONLY system that accurately rates new singlehander designs. Alot of issues that still dog the SCHRS have been solved in the Texel 2005 system. And Yardstick systems only work well when enough data is gethered and when sufficient skill in enclosed i the classes.

Wouter

Yeaahhh, I think I can help you here.

Go to :

NMBR rating system thread on catsailor forum

And spend a few evenings reading up on the NMBR rating system.

Texel 2005 incorporated some of the NMBR proposels


Wouter

Flipping 'ek, talk about wading through treacle...

I have had a reply from my contact, it is usinga private e-mail address so I will not be publishing the address. Some changes are afoot. I am seeking some clarifications before I post any more.