I asked this question in the general forum and Mary suggested posting it here.
I'm curious about how well a Wave sails in higher winds and waves singlehanded. I know the boat has a low power to weight ratio so should do well in higher winds. Most performance cats become uncomfortable about about 18-20 mph windspeed as above this you get more and more into survival mode. Assuming no zipper main reefing, up to what windspeed does the wave stay sailable and fun? At what windspeed is it still sailable but becoming difficult to sail and less fun? At what windspeed does it become survival mode for the Wave? At what windspeed does it become difficult/impossible to complete a tack or jibe without pitchpole? Has anyone used the zipper reefed main in these higher wind situations and if so how did it perform?

An unrelated question: for lower windspeeds the Hooter sounds quite fun. In the Super Wave Kit post, Rick mentioned the kit included a jib in addition to the Hooter. Yet I've read the jib doesn't add much so why is it part of this package?

Thanks,

Jerry

The jib that attaches to the forestay is too small.
I am working on getting one out ahead of the bows.., not finished yet. Had a setback this summer when the bowsprit exploded under the load.
Rick

Im guessing a jib on a bow sprit.

The Wave has established a reputation as a heavy-air boat. When all the other cats are on the beach, the Wave can still go out and have fun.

As to how much wind the Wave is sailable in and how much is still fun, I guess those determinations would be completely subjective on the part of the sailor.

At a regatta at Lake Eustis, Florida a few years ago the wind had risen into the 30's and all the other boats (both monohulls and multihulls) had gone to shore, but the Waves were still racing (probably much to the chagrin of the race committee). There were gusts to 45 mph.

Rick says he capsized three times going downwind before he figured out a better technique for jibing, and then he didn't capsize any more.

Generally, we say the Wave doesn't really come into its element until the wind is 20-25 mph, with 30-35 being survivable (and FUN, if that's your thing).

When the wind was really blowing, we used to say, "It's sailboard weather." Now we say, "It's Wave weather." (But Wave weather is still quite a bit below sailboard weather -I hope.)

If the Wave had a mainsheet traveler, it would be even better able to handle high winds, and Hobie Cat Company now has an optional traveler track kit for the Wave. It's not class legal for one-design racing, but I would sure like to have one if I were into sailing heavy air for fun.

Obviously, downwind is the scary point of sail for the Wave in high winds, because it is short, the mast step is way forward, and the bows are kind of stubby. So downwind and on a reach in heavy air you have to get your weight way, way aft and try to keep the bows up and hike hard and sail it like a skiff.

And for the same design reasons, the boat does not like steep, close-together chop, so it is not really fun in those conditions -- at least for me.

But the real reason you can go out and have fun on the Wave in heavy-air conditions is that it is almost indestructible, it is a relatively inexpensive boat, and it is very easy to right when it capsizes.

Even though I never sailed a Wave, it is a very intriguing boat.

Mary, based on your comments it seems similar to a H17, as far as when it "comes alive" (20-25).

I'd like more description of "short/steep" chop, around here if it's 20-25 waves are pretty big (we have a large pool).

Also curious as to why a jib, given the short bow it seems on a reach in high winds would be disaster. Or is the jib thought primarily for light wind? With a jib seems you'd definitely want the traveler and trap wire. Is that the thought?

Well, of course, no boat likes steep, short-interval waves when going to weather, so that is not really specific to the Wave. We just handle it by bearing off a little more, moving back to get the bows up, and going faster. I DO think it is more of a problem when the wind is relatively light in relation to wave action.

And when sailing in waves, you have to carefully time your tacks so that the boat is turning on the top of a wave and the next wave will help knock the bows over onto the new tack. It's kind of a fun thing to practice.

As with all boats, you have to develop different techniques to handle different conditions.

We don't have much experience with the jib. For our first Wave we also got the optional jib kit and spinnaker kit and trapeze kit from Hobie Cat Company, because it makes a great training boat -- all the components to teach, in microcosm, all the basic elements of sailing a bigger, more high-tech beach cat. For teaching, it can carry two adults and the instructor. And for beginner sailors, it is not as intimidating as, for instance, a Hobie 18 would be in 15-knot winds.

Our experience with the factory-option jib was that it didn't work very well because there was no way to keep the luff tight. Hobie Cat Company said they only originally offered the jib to give other people on the boat something to do, but they were surprised to find that it actually increased the boat's speed by 10 percent. We didn't use it enough to be able to confirm that.

I don't think we have tried reaching with that jib in heavy air, so I don't know how much of a "disaster" it would be. As you suggested, I can picture people trapezing off the aft corner of the boat.

I do know that racers all rake their masts back as far as possible. And on a heavy-air reach, you have to hike out as far back on the boat as you can get (aft of the tiller crossbar) to keep the bows up -- sort of like sailing a skiff.

What I like about the Wave is that it extends the sailable wind range, and sailing time on the water. The way I figure it, all boats are slow and boring in very light air. And all boats at least "feel" fast and fun in moderate air. But many boats don't leave the beach in wind above 15 knots.

Rick and Mary, thanks for the great input.

You make a compelling case for the Wave being a fun boat for heavier air. I'd definitely consider getting one, even only as a 2nd boat for heavy air days when I wouldn't take a more fragile cat out. Especially with the addition of the various add-ons (hooter +/- jib), trap wires, traveller, etc) it sounds like a fun boat with a wide range of use.

I gather that the main reason it is comfortably sailable in higher winds than other cats is due to it's nearly indestructable construction and it's low power/weight ratio. I would guess the plastic hulls are almost indestructable but I still wonder how strong the attachment points are for shrouds, beams, rudders etc are and how well these hold up under the abuse that 30 kts delivers. Have you guys seen any significant failures in higher winds (dismasting, rudder failures, etc) and do you think it is actually more robust than higher tech boats? Also, I would think that if one were to have a smaller main cut for other cats (ie, Hobie 16, F16, etc) one would probably be able to handle a comparable wind range?

Thanks again.

Jerry

I have never seen or heard of any failures at the attachment points, and that includes the two Waves that we personally have owned and abused liberally for the past 7-8 years.

It was designed as a safe, low-maintenance rental boat, and it seems that many of its primary markets are resorts in the high-wind areas of the Caribbean.

As far as whether other catamarans could handle more wind if they reduced sail area, of course they could. A Laser can handle more wind if you wrap the sail around the mast a few times.

I'm not an expert about this, but I think boats are designed for a specific sail plan (or, rather, the sail plan is designed for a specific boat), so I suppose if you alter that sail plan, you might change the balance of the boat as far as helm.

However, I have always thought it would be nice if catamarans had reef points in their mainsails to extend their safe sailing wind range. The Hobie 16 used to have reef points, but they don't any more.

Mary,

Thanks for the great input.

Regarding reducing sail area, how the boat's balance/helm are effected probably would depend on just how you did that but I suspect that both reefing and cutting a sail for higher winds by taking some area off the leech it would be possible to keep the center of effort relatively constant in the fore/aft dimension (although the CE might be lower with a smaller sail that would be an advantage due to less heeling moment and shouldn't effect helm). I know Brobru in the carribean bought a custom smaller main for his I17 and he thinks the results are great.

Regarding reefing, I guess there's a "zipper reef" option for the Wave (if that's still available). Has anyone seen that and sailed with it? Any impact on boat helm?

Jerry

I have never seen a zipper reef for a Hobie Wave main, and I didn't know it was a factory option (if it is), and I can't even imagine being out in winds high enough to need it.

Not to mention that I don't trust zippers to actually zip and unzip. Haven't had much luck with them on anything I own, from purses to jackets.

Mary, check out this link to the Wave on the Hobie site:

http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_wave.html

An excerpt:

Optional Features:
>> Patented Multi-Sail Zipper-Reefing Sail
>> Jib Kit
>> Padded Backrests
>> Custom Trailer

Hey, Matt, is this a real option? If so how well does it work?

I suspect it probably works ok; some windsurfing sails used to work this way and they worked fine. The zipper is only zipped when the sail is reefed, and at that point the lower sail area puts less stress on the zipper. When unreefed, the zipper is fully open.

However, if the power to weight ratio of the unreefed main is such that it's no problem to sail in 25-30 kts than I would agree its not needed unless you unexpectedly found yourself in some really frieghtening winds. It might be nice however to have the option to reef at anytime (ie, maybe you pitchpole and injure yourself or are just cold and tired and don't want to work so hard or take the risk of going over for the umpteenth time...
On my dingly I've gotten shrap abdominal cramps when hiking really hard but didn't have an option to stop hiking! Ouch that hurt!

Jerry

In my view, this is the most important standard option:

"Easy-Attach One Piece Colored Mesh Trampoline with Built-In Drink Holders"

I hate it when my partially full cans slip across the tramp and spill. Soft drinks only, of course.

Yes, the zipper reef sail is an option. We made the zipper reef for light weight kids as much as for higher wind.

Mary,

The Waves ability in high winds is probably not just a function of its small sail area. In general shorter hulls are faster (have less drag) than longer hulls at high speeds (high winds). I have a boat that has four very short (7ft) hulls. It too is relativly slow in light winds, but as the wind picks up it feels like its coming up onto the plane (which it isn't). There is a marked difference in performance.

The other good thing about the wave hulls is that they have lots of bouyancy for their length and so can handle the power produced by the higher winds.

All the best

Gareth Roberts
www.fourhulls.com
www.runfortheboat.co.uk